Cancer In Leia's Toe ?

[Guest FordRacingRon]

Leia has had this round spot on the outside of one toe and her toe is a bit swollen. Been like that for a month. Went to the vet today for her annual checkup and her shots,,showed the vet the toe. It looks like a bedsore but he wants to xray, so we do.

 

He states the xray is inconclusive and in his opinion it could be a bone infection, a tumor or nothing,,we don't know.

 

He has given me some Obrifloxin (ORBAX) to see if that will help. I bring her back in two weeks. Next step, needle aspiration if swelling doesn't go down,,then possible amputation.

 

So,,is Orbifloxin okay for greys?

 

My heart has been crushed with the thought that my six year old girl could have bone cancer.

Edited November 7, 2009 by FordRacingRon

[Guest SusanP]

I don't know the answer to your questions but just wanted to send my good wishes for a happy resolution to this. Please remember that some cancers can be removed very successfully--if it's aspiratable, I would think it's not actually in the bone, no? Let's hope the antibiotic does the trick! As I noted in the other thread about possible cancer in a toe, my vets have generally gone with the needle aspirate biopsy first thing to find out what is going on. Most of the time, it doesn't bother the dog any more than a shot or blood draw (though toes can be sensitive), and you find out quickly what kind of cells are in the thing.

[winnie]

Why didn't the vet do the needle aspiration right then and there?

 

Our cats have had mysterious lumps appear. The vet aspirated them and it turned out to be nothing - just a "fatty" deposit. It wasn't a big deal to aspirate either.

[kronckew]

blue had a pea sized shiney hairless lump on his nose last month, looked hard, fixed and nasty, got red & looked horrible. put some antibiotic gunk on it, it shrunk to a bb size, and is now gone. i was worried about the big C too. don't get upset until the test results are in and you get a 2nd opinion. get back to voting for leia. she's slipping behind the alsatian.

[Guest Smiley]

It seems we are both in the same scary, sad spot. I'm so sorry to hear about Leia. I will be keeping you and her in my thoughts and prayers. Hopefully her lump and Smiley's toe are just infections and nothing more.

[Guest Linn]

Fingers crossed for good results for Leia and Smiley.

[ahicks51]

Orbiflorxacin is in the same class of drugs as Cipro. Best as I know, it's safe in greys.

[Burpdog]

I've had several with sores between the toes--no cancer.

 

Not sure why he chose this atb:

 

Orbifloxacin (Orbax)

 

 

(for veterinary information only)

 

Brand name: Orbax

 

Available in 5.7 mg, 22.7 mg & 68 mg tablets

 

Background

 

Until sulfa drugs and penicillin came on the scene in the 1940s, our efforts to combat bacterial infection were largely ineffective. As more antibiotics were developed, different types of bacteria were conquered, yet one bacterial species remained seemingly invincible: Pseudomonas aeruginosa. Eventually the aminoglycoside class of antibiotics were developed that could kill Pseudomonas, but they were available only as injectables and had potential to cause significant kidney damage if used too long. With these kind of side effects and the ability to treat Pseudomonas limited to hospitalized patients where injections could be given regularly, the battle with Pseudomonas was far from won.

 

A major breakthrough was the development of the fluoroquinolone class of antibiotics (including enrofloxacin, its counterpart for human use ciprofloxacin, and several others). These medications are active against many bacterial types including Pseudomonas. They are available as tablets and are not associated with the serious side effects that plagued the aminoglycoside group.

 

Fluoroquinolones work by deactivating bacterial enzymes necessary for the transcription of DNA. DNA is tightly coiled in order to fit inside a cell. Segments to be used must be uncoiled by an enzyme called DNA gyrase. The fluoroquinolone antibiotic deactivates DNA gyrase, making it impossible to read the DNA. The bacterial cell dies. Mammalian DNA gyrase is of a completely different shape and remains unharmed.

 

Enrofloxacin, the first veterinary fluoroquinolone, enjoyed great success on the market and was soon joined by orbifloxacin, marbofloxacin and others. Orbifloxacin has the following advantages:

 

Especially rapid absorption into the body after oral dosing (complete absorption in 46 minutes)

Lower doses are generally necessary, which means fewer tablets to give and often less expense (especially in larger dogs)

 

Uses of this Medication

 

This medication may be used in either dogs or cats to combat different types of infections, especially those involving Pseudomonas. Orbifloxacin is also active against Staphylococci, and thus is commonly used for infections of the skin. Orbifloxacin has poor activity against anaerobic infections (such as are typical in the mouth or in bite wound abscesses.)

 

Side Effects

 

At approximately ten times the recommended dose, vomiting and diarrhea may be seen with this medication. At normal doses, this should not be seen. Dogs with Pseudomonas ear infections require high doses of orbifloxacin and nausea may become a problem.

 

In immature dogs of less than 8 months of age, damage to joint cartilage can occur. This phenomenon is only seen in growing dogs and does not seem to be a problem in cats. It is preferable not to use this medication in puppies unless the severity of the infection warrants it.

 

The long-term use of enrofloxacin can lead to enrofloxacin crystals in urine. These crystals may show up on a laboratory test, so it’s important to be aware of this side effect. While this has not been reported with orbifloxacin, there is no reason to think that orbifloxacin can’t form crystals in urine too.

 

The recently described problem with blindness in cats associated with higher doses of enrofloxacin has not been reported in orbifloxacin. Orbifloxacin has a slightly different chemical structure that leads to less drug accumulation in feline eyes.

 

Interactions with Other Drugs

 

Sulcrafate (a medication used to treat stomach ulcers) may bind orbifloxacin and prevent it from entering the body. These medications should be given at least 2 hours apart if they are used together.

 

Theophylline (an airway dilator): Blood levels may be higher than usual if this medication is used concurrently with orbifloxacin. The dose of theophylline may need to be reduced.

 

If orbifloxacin is used with oral cyclosporine (an immunosuppressive medication used for inflammatory bowel disease or for atopic dermatitis), the kidney damaging properties of cyclosporine may become worse.

 

Medications or supplements containing iron, zinc, magnesium or aluminum will bind orbifloxacin and prevent absorption into the body. Such medications should be separated from orbifloxacin by at least 2 hours.

 

Orbifloxacin can synergize with other antibiotics, making their combined effect greater than expected from simply adding their two effects together. Commonly used antibiotics felt to synergize with orbifloxacin include extended spectrum penicillins (such as amoxicillin) and third generation cephalosporins (such as cefpodoxime).

 

Concerns and Cautions

 

Orbifloxacin tablets are enteric coated to hide the drug's naturally bitter taste. If for some reason the tablets are crushed, the bitter taste is more readily apparent.

 

Crushing tablets to put in the pet’s food is not likely to be effective way to administer orbifloxacin.

 

Pseudomonas infections are common in ears. In this location, high doses of orbifloxacin are needed to clear the infection.

 

Orbifloxacin should be avoided in pregnant or nursing pets and in immature dogs unless the severity of the infection warrants it because of the potential damage that can occur to developing cartilage, as mentioned above.

 

Orbifloxacin may lower the seizure threshold, meaning it can facilitate seizures. This is not a problem for normal animals but fluoroquinolones are best not used in animals with known seizure disorders .

 

It is our policy not to give dosing information over the Internet.

 

Date Published: 3/9/2001

Date Reviewed/Revised: 09/09/2007

 

Orbax

 

p.s. make sure the xrays are read by a radiologist.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Burpdog

[Guest FordRacingRon]

You got me as far as the meds...

 

We looked at the xrays with him and you can see the lump sort of,,but the bone looked fine to me. From the side view it looked normal, it was from the top it you could see something round that looked like it was over the bone. It doesn't hurt her. He said it was funny i cought it because normally no one woudl notice but I check Leia virtually everyday.

 

I am hoping based on his experience that the inconclusive xray was the reasoning behind not doing the aspirate right then. At first he wasn't going to even xray until my DW brought it up and that vets eyes light up at the thought of getting more cash from us.

 

I am praying that it's nothing evil and I know if it is an amputation would probably fix her (I am a cancer victim too, 5 1/2 years out) as its really small.

 

I guess the good news was we have her down to 69 pounds and now she is only 5 pound over racing weight,,so the summer of dieting worked.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

My Danny has the same exact thing going on right now.........a swollen toe and a red, raised sore on the side of the toe. He was carrying his leg at first. The vet did a round or antibiotics & we are now on the second round of Previcox and Epsom Salts soaks. He is now using the leg more than carrying the leg & the toe looks a little better but the sore is still there.

 

Worrying with you & sending prayers for your Leia.

 

Edited to add that we had an inconclusive x-ray as well.

Edited October 20, 2009 by greytfulhounds

[Batmom]

FWIW, while dogs *can* get cancer in toes, it isn't extremely common. They do also get infections, benign histiocytomas (which usually go away on their own), calcifications of various sorts, fungus, cysts of various kinds ....... Hugs and hopes it turns out to be nothing at all.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

My Danny has the same exact thing going on right now.........a swollen toe and a red, raised sore on the side of the toe. He was carrying his leg at first. The vet did a round or antibiotics & we are now on the second round of Previcox and Epsom Salts soaks. He is now using the leg more than carrying the leg & the toe looks a little better but the sore is still there.

 

Worrying with you & sending prayers for your Leia.

 

Edited to add that we had an inconclusive x-ray as well.

 

YOur description is spot on exept for the pain part. This doesn't bother Leia at all. You can poke,prod,pull,rub,,,no reaction at all. But your description is perfect. Prayers for Danny too.....

 

FWIW, while dogs *can* get cancer in toes, it isn't extremely common. They do also get infections, benign histiocytomas (which usually go away on their own), calcifications of various sorts, fungus, cysts of various kinds ....... Hugs and hopes it turns out to be nothing at all.

 

There are two people on this board that to me are the voice of doG when they speak as I feel they seem to be real authorities. You are one of them. Having you post that makes me feel so much better giving me the thought it is probably something else. Thank you for that.....

[greytdecals]

Some light of hope for you...it is very rare to find bone cancer in the toes or metatarsals. Dr. Couto, Oncologist at OSU Vet Clinic, said that in all of his career he has only seen bone cancer twice in the metatarsals out of all of the greyhounds he has treated for bone cancer(which we all know is way too many)....one of those is our Maggie-Mae. They too thought she had a bone infection in her toe, but we had to put her through a bone biopsy to make sure it was indeed bone cancer.

 

If it is bone cancer, then the rate of it spreading is slower than if it were up near the hip or in the shoulder. The closer the tumor is to the body, the more likely it is to spread quickly.

 

Recommendation of Dr. Couto was to amputate the entire leg not just the toe. If you take only the toe there is a chance bone cancer will show up again in that leg and then your back to amputating the entire leg anyway.

 

But, as always, each case differs from the others.

 

I do hope and pray it's not bone cancer.

Edited October 20, 2009 by greytdecals

[greytdaddy]

greytdecals said "Dr. Couto, Oncologist at OSU Vet Clinic, said that in all of his career he has only seen bone cancer twice in the metatarsals out of all of the greyhounds he has treated for bone cancer(which we all know is way too many)....one of those is our Maggie-Mae."

Our girl Lissa was the second one that Dr. Couto was talking about. He told us at the time that cancer in the toe was extremely rare. He knew of only one grey that had ever had it. We had Lissa's cancerous toe amputated and she did fine with one less toe. Lissa crossed over, but is was not due to cancer. She lived a couple more years after the amputation. We are sending prayers that all will be well with your hound.

 

Gary & Connie Holder

[Guest FordRacingRon]

greytdecals said "Dr. Couto, Oncologist at OSU Vet Clinic, said that in all of his career he has only seen bone cancer twice in the metatarsals out of all of the greyhounds he has treated for bone cancer(which we all know is way too many)....one of those is our Maggie-Mae."

Our girl Lissa was the second one that Dr. Couto was talking about. He told us at the time that cancer in the toe was extremely rare. He knew of only one grey that had ever had it. We had Lissa's cancerous toe amputated and she did fine with one less toe. Lissa crossed over, but is was not due to cancer. She lived a couple more years after the amputation. We are sending prayers that all will be well with your hound.

 

Gary & Connie Holder

 

If I may,,,how old was your bridge angel?

[vjgrey]

We had a similar scare with Gabe just a few weeks after we brought him home. He started limping, his foot was swollen, he got VERY sick, and he developed a big lump on one of his toes.

 

Completely terrified me.

 

Our vet removed the lump surgically, cleaned it out and sent it all off to the lab. I can't remember offhand what he called it, but it was a type of benign cyst.

 

Thinking lots of good thoughts for your pretty girl.

Edited October 20, 2009 by vjgrey

[Guest MZH]

Our cat Dinka was afflicted with this 2 years ago. They wanted to biopsy the toe -- but that meant remove the toe! She was 16 and I thought that was extreme for a cat her age. They put her on marbofloxacin for a month and the bump and redness and swelling went away. After some time it came back. Another month of the same. It went away and she's been fine the last year and a half!

 

PS The marbofloxacin is good for UTIs, too. UIsed that on a greyhound and a different cat. Sounds like it's related to the Orbax. Good stuff!

 

 

[Guest Ohiogreymom]

greytdecals said "Dr. Couto, Oncologist at OSU Vet Clinic, said that in all of his career he has only seen bone cancer twice in the metatarsals out of all of the greyhounds he has treated for bone cancer(which we all know is way too many)....one of those is our Maggie-Mae."

Our girl Lissa was the second one that Dr. Couto was talking about. He told us at the time that cancer in the toe was extremely rare. He knew of only one grey that had ever had it. We had Lissa's cancerous toe amputated and she did fine with one less toe. Lissa crossed over, but is was not due to cancer. She lived a couple more years after the amputation. We are sending prayers that all will be well with your hound.

 

Gary & Connie Holder

 

If I may,,,how old was your bridge angel?

Ron, since Gary has signed off, I'll answer for him: Lissa was 12 when she passed. I was her "vacation mama".We all miss her still. Darlene

[Guest twogreytkids]

Sending healing thoughts for Leia.

 

Marcy

[Guest FordRacingRon]

Thank you everyone for you wishes,,,it is making Leia's dad feel better,,,she doesn't know there is something wrong !

[tbhounds]

Orbax=Baytril---good strong antibiotic and usually only needs to be given once a day. I know many have asked "why no needle aspirate"? Many tumors don't aspirate well-meaning they don't give off cells well and therefore are not good FNA candidates. Many times with those certain tumors you will get a "false" or undiagnosed result. Your vet is justified in his worries--any lump on a toe should be considered potentially scary, however, before I did the amputation I would have a core biopsy done first--that way you will know what you're dealing with and how wide the surgical margins need to be. Hope this turns out to be nothing more than an infection.

[Guest 3greysinPA]

Ron.. Sending many prayers for your beautiful PRincess Leia... that this is an infection and nothing more...

hugs and prayers your way

[Guest FordRacingRon]

Orbax=Baytril---good strong antibiotic and usually only needs to be given once a day. I know many have asked "why no needle aspirate"? Many tumors don't aspirate well-meaning they don't give off cells well and therefore are not good FNA candidates. Many times with those certain tumors you will get a "false" or undiagnosed result. Your vet is justified in his worries--any lump on a toe should be considered potentially scary, however, before I did the amputation I would have a core biopsy done first--that way you will know what you're dealing with and how wide the surgical margins need to be. Hope this turns out to be nothing more than an infection.

 

After reading some of the replies,,especially the ones with Dr. Couto being quoted, makes me tend to believe this is not cancer. I understadn the needle biopsy thing,,,I was diagnosed with kidney cancer back in '04 and when that shows up on a scan there is not bioipsy because 95% of the time it is in fact cancer and a biopsy makes things worse. But in Leia's case I am leaning towards it, if we get to that point ,because if the odds are it not being a malingnancy, I want her to keep her toe. Does that sound like sound thinking?

Edited October 21, 2009 by FordRacingRon

[Batmom]

Sounds like very sound thinking. Guess I can't say you're *lucky* to have experience in these matters, but your experience will serve your girlie well. Keeping all fingers -- and toes! -- crossed that it turns out to be one big nothing.

 

 

[Guest FordRacingRon]

Sounds like very sound thinking. Guess I can't say you're *lucky* to have experience in these matters, but your experience will serve your girlie well. Keeping all fingers -- and toes! -- crossed that it turns out to be one big nothing.

 

I edited my post,,now that I re-wrote it , does it still show sound thinking? What swaed me to the biopsy over the straight amputation is the Dr. Cuoto facts.