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Drinking Too Much Water


Guest oldNELLIE

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Guest oldNELLIE

Hi everyone!

So This is a little bit of a long story...

 

Some time last week it dawned on my husband and I that Nellie has been drinking a lot of water, all at one time, that time being about 10pm. It was hard not to notice because after a year of being on a really regular walking schedule, she was having to pee in the middle of the night. Husband and I went back and forth about restricting her water in the evening... she has always been a bit neurotic about drinking so we never did. I checked out posts on GT about similar situations and made a vet appointment to have her checked out - just to be sure.

 

Then came the weekend, we had beautiful weather and turned off the heat and opened to windows. Nellie was fine, regulating her drinking and not waking up to go out at night. I canceled with the vet. Through all of this she never was acting "sick" at all.

 

Last night I was late at work and when I got home her water bowl was empty. DH told me she had just drank it all. I refilled it 1/2 way and she drank the whole thing again. She was up 3 times in the night to go out, and when we fed her breakfast she drank her whole bowl - again. I took her on a long walk (she had a lot of energy) and I noticed that her pee was clear. We took her to the vet.

 

They took a urine sample (she "donated" on the floor :rolleyes: ) and it looked fine, although incredible diluted. They took a blood sample and ruled out kidney and liver failure. The vet suggested that we do limit her water after her last meal (8pm) and maybe give her ice cubes or a little water in the dish if she is seeming dry or frantic about it. They need a more concentrated sample to know for sure, but he was confident it isn't diabetes.

 

What he did say though was that her protein levels were "off". There are, I guess, 2 type of protein in the blood, and one was high and one was quite low. He wasn't sure if that was normal for GH since as a breed they are a bit different, or if the proteins were being flushed out with all the water, or if it was another problem. She will go back next week to run the tests again, after we limit her drinking for a little while. I was worried about her becoming more frantic about water if we took it away, but he said it is either in her head or a physical problem, and we have to rule out the medical.

 

So, what do you guys think? Thoughts on the protein levels? I do really trust this vet, he is familiar with the breed and loves Nellie very much. I am just worried about my girl :( .

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Guest spider9174

I've had similar problems. I have a male that was diagnosed with psychogenic polydipsia. Basically, he has a drinking problem. He'll go all day without drinking anything, then at night he will drink whatever we put in front of him.

 

We ran mulitple urine tests and cultures for infections. I monitored the amount of water (cups) he was drinking per day. There is an equation some where that you can calculate what your pup can have/day. I even had an ACTH stim test ran on him to rule out Cushings. I monitor his blood Bun/Creatinine and phospohorus levels every 6 months just to make sure things aren't changing and he's not developing kidney issues. My vet also doesn't think Gable's issues are related to Diabetes.

 

Have you run a chem panel on her blood? Did the run an ERD test on her urine, culture the urine to test for bacteria? I've read on GT that some people will ask for antibiotics even if the urine comes back clean an that has cleared up whatever was going on.

 

Until you rule out all the medical, you can't say it is in her head. There is a test that some people do to rule out pshycogenic polydipsia and diabetes--water deprivation over an extended amount of time--in order to see if the urine is concentrating. If the urine concentrates, it is in her head. I did not have this test run. It needs to be done under strict veterinary supervision as it can cause pretty severe dehydration.

 

I think Batmom has also dealt with some of these issues. Maybe she can give you better advice.

 

I don't think this helped...

 

 

 

PS...here are some links that may help:

 

http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/2376.htm

http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/1872.htm

 

blood values in a greyhound--print out for your vet:

http://www.arizonaadoptagreyhound.org/blood_tests.html

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Guest oldNELLIE

Spider9174, no, this is helpful! I am under the impression that there was no infection and no bacteria in the urine, but because it was so dilute they are going to retest again in a week for everything, including glucose levels etc.

 

How do you deal with the late night drinking? Do you restrict Gable's water? I realize I have to for a short time in order for the vet to be able to test accurately for potential problems, but if it really is "nothing", do we just go ahead and let her drink what she wants when she wants? I am curious what others are doing with their pups who have this habit. (Drinking problem...hehe. This made me chuckle)

 

This is also still an isolated incident, so I am holding onto the hope that she was just having a bad night. Maybe she was anxious about something? She usually takes a big drink after meals and after being outside, just not her whole dish x 2!

 

And thank you CrazyGang for the well wishes!

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I have a whippet with a "drinking problem," too! All his tests have been completely normal and my vet is even jealous of some of his blood chemistries. It has been determined/decided that it is in his head. He goes through period of heavy drinking and then it evens out. His last episode has lasted for several months. We are keeping an eye out trying to see if we can find a link between environmental and seasonal stressors or something. So far, haven't come up with anything, but we are still looking! We do not withhold water because all the dogs and cats drink from the same bowl (their choice). With his other life issues, we just belly band him when we are going to be gone for several hours or in the late afternoon - his favorite time to pee on the carpet. I wish you much luck and if you are like me, it is comforting (in a twisted way) to know that there are other dogs out there with this same condition. Cindy

gallery_16605_3214_8259.jpg

Cindy with Miss Fancypants, Paris Bueller, Zeke, and Angus 
Dante (Dg's Boyd), Zoe (In a While), Brady (Devilish Effect), Goose (BG Shotgun), Maverick (BG ShoMe), Maggie (All Trades Jax), Sherman (LNB Herman Bad) and Indy (BYB whippet) forever in my heart
The flame that burns the brightest, burns the fastest and leaves the biggest shadow

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Guest spider9174

I also have a Cushing's Dog, so I don't limit water because I can't limit her water. However, I do monitor filling up the water later at night. I never leave the bowls full. I always leave water in them, about 1/2 full. If he drinks both, I don't fill it up again for 20-30 minutes. If Kit, my Cushing's girl, gets up to get a drink (or my other foster for that matter) I will go fill the bowls 1/2 way so they have water.

 

With Gable...I can be home all day and he will maybe drink 1/2 a bowl. At 5 pm, it's like he needs to start drinking. I've watched him drink bowls. He also likes to fish out rice or whatever might be floating in the bowl from when we feed them...that's lovely, he'll drink an entire bowl of water for 1 grain of rice. I have coup cups and when I'd leave, I would fill his coup cup about 1/2 full so he had water in his xpen during the day. He's crated...obvious reasons, he drinks and will just pee. He won't touch water in his crate, ever. Never did!

 

What I have ended up doing is try to accommodate the drinking. I don't limit the amount of water, I limit how much is available at any given time. I also let the pups out between 1-3 am. I'm crazy...I know. But Gable will bark at some point in the middle of the night (he's crated at night too, obvious reasons, water and peeing), when he does, I go let them out. I don't have a problem doing this becuase this works for Kit because she usually needs to go out too. I don't fill the bowls up at 3 am. They go out to potty and then are out until morning. The crating helps contain any problems because they won't wake me up to let them out if they aren't crated.

 

I have also heard of people having pups that drank a lot of water because their tummy was upset. They have give pepsid 1x/day and this decreases their water intake. The thought is that they drink a lot to help their tummy from hurting. I dont' know, I didn't try the pepsid.

 

ETA

Yeah...he is a drinker. I say he needs WA...waterholics anonymous. And let me tell you...the "in his head" diagnosis was the most insulting thing I'd heard at first. I said, there is something wrong we need to fix it. My vet said he needs a shrink and it is common in some breeds of dogs (greys) and horses (arabs). Ah..nice. I had arabian horses...and now I have greyhounds...convenient!

 

Word of caution...watched when she gets stressed. Gable will go into major drinking mode when he gets stressed. Ie...vet, new foster, when he gets annoyed with a fosters, or when my schedule changes. I teach at night and after a break and I go back to teaching, he develops anxiety when I'm gone and drinks more (according to my dh). You'd never know he gets stressed. He is the most outgoing grey you will ever meet. No person isn't his friend. He never pants excessively or drools and his nose only runs when he is excited. He's an odd duck...with a drinking problem!

Edited by spider9174
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I may be the odd ball here, but I would not limit water, for me, I just don't feel that's right. Some dogs drink a lot of water and there's no medical problem at all, and some do it for so many reasons.

I've been through the excessive drinking and I like to start with the simple things, diet,stress, or a UTI. I know you said there was no bacteria in the urine, but did they grow a culture?

I'm curious as to why the vet is confident it's not diabetes without doing a UA?

Edited by cbudshome

Claudia-noo-siggie.jpg

Missing my little Misty who took a huge piece of my heart with her on 5/2/09, and Ekko, on 6/28/12

 

 

:candle For the sick, the lost, and the homeless

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Guest ibeakila
Hi everyone!

So This is a little bit of a long story...

 

Some time last week it dawned on my husband and I that Nellie has been drinking a lot of water, all at one time, that time being about 10pm. It was hard not to notice because after a year of being on a really regular walking schedule, she was having to pee in the middle of the night. Husband and I went back and forth about restricting her water in the evening... she has always been a bit neurotic about drinking so we never did. I checked out posts on GT about similar situations and made a vet appointment to have her checked out - just to be sure.

 

Then came the weekend, we had beautiful weather and turned off the heat and opened to windows. Nellie was fine, regulating her drinking and not waking up to go out at night. I canceled with the vet. Through all of this she never was acting "sick" at all.

 

Last night I was late at work and when I got home her water bowl was empty. DH told me she had just drank it all. I refilled it 1/2 way and she drank the whole thing again. She was up 3 times in the night to go out, and when we fed her breakfast she drank her whole bowl - again. I took her on a long walk (she had a lot of energy) and I noticed that her pee was clear. We took her to the vet.

 

They took a urine sample (she "donated" on the floor :rolleyes: ) and it looked fine, although incredible diluted. They took a blood sample and ruled out kidney and liver failure. The vet suggested that we do limit her water after her last meal (8pm) and maybe give her ice cubes or a little water in the dish if she is seeming dry or frantic about it. They need a more concentrated sample to know for sure, but he was confident it isn't diabetes.

 

What he did say though was that her protein levels were "off". There are, I guess, 2 type of protein in the blood, and one was high and one was quite low. He wasn't sure if that was normal for GH since as a breed they are a bit different, or if the proteins were being flushed out with all the water, or if it was another problem. She will go back next week to run the tests again, after we limit her drinking for a little while. I was worried about her becoming more frantic about water if we took it away, but he said it is either in her head or a physical problem, and we have to rule out the medical.

 

So, what do you guys think? Thoughts on the protein levels? I do really trust this vet, he is familiar with the breed and loves Nellie very much. I am just worried about my girl :( .

 

 

My big boy peeed a lot, he was dignosed diabetes, but is doing well on vetsulin

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Guest oldNELLIE

Thanks for the thoughts everyone!

 

I think the problem is that when they ran the test on the urine it looked okay (in terms of infection, bacteria and glucose levels etc.), but it is so dilute that they want us to concentrate it some and then run another set of tests to be sure. If she keeps drinking like she was last night, that wont happen.

 

On a side note, I checked in on her at lunch to let her out to pee and her pee was yellow again. She has a fresh bowl of water from this morning, and it is not gone :). Why would she be only drinking in excess at night?

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Guest Sweetreba
ditto on the belly band...because at times he drinks a lot, he pees a lot. So he gets belly banded.

 

 

 

What is a belly band? My female has been having a peeing problem since the new carpeting. I may want this.

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Guest greytbuds

I never got a definite diagnosis here, but my Beau had very dilute urine. The vet and I measured water and check blood chemicals for about six months trying to figure out what was going on. They check protein levels in the urine to determine if the kidneys are filtering properly. The bad news was that a problem with his blood pressure took his life at the very early age of five and I subsequently read a very interesting article in Celebrating Greyhounds magazine that connects kidney problems with hypertension. Don't want to alarm you or make a connection that was not diagnosed, but I would definitely keep a check on the kidney issue.

 

Greytbuds

 

 

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Guest spider9174

That is absolutely true about kidney problems and hypertension. Omega-3 and vitamin e are thought to help with reducing hypertension and help kidney function.

 

Ask your vet about Phosphorus levels in the blood. I just had my ferret at the vet for pretty severe infection. The vet said that many times early on in kidney failure they see elevated phosphorus levels before the BUN/Creatinine levels go up.

 

 

 

 

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Guest LindsaySF

I would NOT restrict her water intake. You mention that she gets "frantic" about water. Taking it away will only make this anxiety worse and will likely worsen your problem. If this is indeed a mental issue she has (psychogenic polydipsia) then limiting her water is about the worst thing you can do.

 

 

Very dilute urine with all other values normal is also indicative of Diabetes Insipidus. (My dog Cody has it). Ask your vet about this.

 

 

Until you rule out all the medical, you can't say it is in her head. There is a test that some people do to rule out pshycogenic polydipsia and diabetes--water deprivation over an extended amount of time--in order to see if the urine is concentrating. If the urine concentrates, it is in her head. I did not have this test run. It needs to be done under strict veterinary supervision as it can cause pretty severe dehydration.

It is true that a water deprivation test is done to diagnose Diabetes Insipidus. It is risky however, so I would recommend against it. Instead you can do an ADH trial. Basically you give ADH (anti-diuretic hormone) to the dog and see if it concentrates their urine and they stop drinking so much (you give free access to water during the trial). If it works, then you can diagnose them as having DI. Much safer than a water deprivation test.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

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Coltrane has rather dilute urine, and the protein levels in his urine were too high when he first was returned to the kennel. He also has high blood pressure, which is controlled with Enalapril. On the Enalapril and prescription K/D food, he is healthy. The vet believes his dilute urine may be due to compulsive drinking. Good luck finding the solution for Nellie!

Rebecca
with Atlas the borzoi, Luna the pyr, and Madison the cat, always missing Sahara(Flyin Tara Lyn) and Coltrane(Blue on By) the greyhounds

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I never got a definite diagnosis here, but my Beau had very dilute urine. The vet and I measured water and check blood chemicals for about six months trying to figure out what was going on. They check protein levels in the urine to determine if the kidneys are filtering properly. The bad news was that a problem with his blood pressure took his life at the very early age of five

 

High blood pressure, which can stem from several different problems, can cause both kidney issues and non-kidney-related excess drinking. I'm sorry about your pupper :( .

 

To the OP: Does your pupper normally drink much water overnight? Best urine sample to test is a midstream catch from the first urine of the day. Usually that is the most concentrated and may enable your vet to determine whether she *can* concentrate her urine.

 

LindsaySF is right on about ADH testing and about not restricting water. The only thing I've done when a pup has had drinking problems is to restrict water for @ 2 hours before I go out for the evening and fill up the water bowl on my way out of the house; my "excitement" drinker normally didn't tank up on water while I was gone.

 

Some things worth exploring:

 

- Repeat urinalysis and comprehensive bloodwork. If dog has a very low T4, you may want to explore a full thyroid panel as hypothyroid can sometimes cause overdrinking.

 

- Blood pressure check.

 

- A course of antibiotics. Basically, pretend the dog has a UTI even if urine shows no evidence of one. This often solves an overdrinking problem.

 

- Bottled or filtered water. This didn't work for us but I've heard it is a help for some.

 

- A different diet. One of my dogs seems to have developed a sensitivity to salt or something else in commercial food. Feed her commercial food -- even low salt prescription food -- and she overdrinks, leaks, and has to go out a million times in the evening. Feed her homecooked salt-free food and salt-free treats, and she's fine.

 

Sending hugs and best luck.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Guest oldNELLIE

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts.

 

We were at the e-vet today because her drinking has gotten even more excessive. We held off on the actual "restriction" of water of Friday night and she did okay. By this am she was drinking what ever was in her bowl. I have had to ration it out to her 1.5 cups at a time. She is peeing so much. My husband left for business. I convinced myself she has a UTI and took her to the e-vet to see what they would say. The ran all the same tests again (from Friday) and found again nothing to indicate what could be causing this.

 

They did ask about things that she has eaten, specifically grapes. I knew they were bad for dogs, but I had no idea how bad. Nellie ate 3, 2 weeks ago when they fell on the floor in the kitchen. The vet thought that the time line did not make sense for that to be the problem. It was too long ago, and she had normal blood work on Friday. In between the grapes and last thursday she had some increase in her drinking and then was totally fine. That was when I canceled the original visit.

 

Today the test showed one thing off of normal, her Creatinine was 1.6 (high norm is 1.4). Because it was the e-vet and we didn't have the records from Friday, we don't know if that is new. He offered to have her stay and have IV fluids to flush her system, but said he didn't think it was necessary. She is not acting ill at all. He suggested that she is actually doing the same thing for herself that they would do for her there by drinking and peeing so much.

 

I am at a loss. We will be heading back to the vets next week to run more tests, and to make sure her blood values are holding steady. :(

 

Have you taken the water away at night before? How long have you had her? How long off the track? Are you feeding any snacks in the evening like biscuits, etc? Have you changed foods recently?

No, we have never had to take away her water before. I don't think it is a good idea, and she has always been fine about regulating herself. This is a new thing. We have had Nellie for 1.5 years. She gets a last meal at 8pm, but nothing after that. We did change her food this winter, but she is on the 3rd 40lb bag of it. I don't think there is a connection.

 

Very dilute urine with all other values normal is also indicative of Diabetes Insipidus. (My dog Cody has it). Ask your vet about this.

 

...you can do an ADH trial. Basically you give ADH (anti-diuretic hormone) to the dog and see if it concentrates their urine and they stop drinking so much (you give free access to water during the trial). If it works, then you can diagnose them as having DI. Much safer than a water deprivation test.

~Lindsay~

The e-vet today had a good reason to NOT think it is Diabetes Insipidus, but I am embarrassed to say I don't remember what the reason was. We went over a lot of possibilities. He did feel strongly that it could be ADH and I think we will do that test this week with our regular vet.

 

 

...

Some things worth exploring:

 

- Repeat urinalysis and comprehensive bloodwork. If dog has a very low T4, you may want to explore a full thyroid panel as hypothyroid can sometimes cause overdrinking.

 

- Blood pressure check.

 

- A course of antibiotics. Basically, pretend the dog has a UTI even if urine shows no evidence of one. This often solves an overdrinking problem.

 

- Bottled or filtered water. This didn't work for us but I've heard it is a help for some.

 

- A different diet. One of my dogs seems to have developed a sensitivity to salt or something else in commercial food. Feed her commercial food -- even low salt prescription food -- and she overdrinks, leaks, and has to go out a million times in the evening. Feed her homecooked salt-free food and salt-free treats, and she's fine.

 

Sending hugs and best luck.

I am going to bring your suggestions of the ADH test and the blood pressure check to our vet. I have started filtering Nellie's water. We will also run the blood work again, her T4 is normal. Her urinalysis has been normal 2 times now, but I will try to get them to give me a round of antibiotics anyway.

I am so sad and overwhelmed. It just kills me to not have any answers! Thankfully Nellie is just sleeping here next to me. To look at her, you would never know there was any problem.

 

Greytbuds, I am sorry about your Beau. I will try to use this lesson to help Nellie :(

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What about her appetite? Does she seem more hungry than normal? Have you noticed when she eats she eats her food like there's no tomorrow?

I ask only because the excessive drinking is what alerted me to Misty's Cushings. It wasn't until after the vet asked me about her appetite that I realized she was eating like it was going to be her last meal.

Just a thought

Claudia-noo-siggie.jpg

Missing my little Misty who took a huge piece of my heart with her on 5/2/09, and Ekko, on 6/28/12

 

 

:candle For the sick, the lost, and the homeless

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Guest LindsaySF

Creatinine 1.6 is in the normal range for a Greyhound. (Their values tend to be higher than normal).

 

Best of luck, let us know if the vet decides to pursue an ADH trial.

 

 

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Don't suppose the recipe for her food has changed at all or includes more salt? If she drinks heavily mostly in the evening sometime after her main meal, I would think maybe the food is making her extra dry or thirsty. I certainly wouldn't ever restrict availablity of water though as she obviously feels she needs it for whatever reason you finally come up with.

Sue from England

 

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Guest oldNELLIE
What about her appetite? Does she seem more hungry than normal? Have you noticed when she eats she eats her food like there's no tomorrow?

I ask only because the excessive drinking is what alerted me to Misty's Cushings. It wasn't until after the vet asked me about her appetite that I realized she was eating like it was going to be her last meal.

Just a thought

 

Nellie always eats as though she has never eaten before, and never will again. I will ask the vet about Cushings. Was Misty acting sick? Or did you bring her in specifically because she was drinking too much?

 

Creatinine 1.6 is in the normal range for a Greyhound. (Their values tend to be higher than normal).

 

Best of luck, let us know if the vet decides to pursue an ADH trial.

 

Thank you for this information!

 

Don't suppose the recipe for her food has changed at all or includes more salt? If she drinks heavily mostly in the evening sometime after her main meal, I would think maybe the food is making her extra dry or thirsty. I certainly wouldn't ever restrict availablity of water though as she obviously feels she needs it for whatever reason you finally come up with.

 

She did get a new bag of the same type of food on wednesday night, right before things changed...hmmm.

 

I need your guys help on the water thing. I know she obviously needs it, but I can't keep filling it up and having her drain it, and fill it again. What do I do? I am at work now, and I filled her bowl before I left (she drank it), my friend will walk her mid-day and give her more water and I will be home at 5 and will put out as much as she needs. I am at a total loss. I am calling her vet now to see if he has any more ideas and to see what the next step is.

Thanks everyone.

 

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Nellie always eats as though she has never eaten before, and never will again. I will ask the vet about Cushings. Was Misty acting sick? Or did you bring her in specifically because she was drinking too much?

 

Please do ask the vet about Cushings. No, Misty never acted sick at all and still doesn't. I brought her in strickly because she was really drinking a LOT.

I always have 3 huge deep bowls full of water, mainly because of the climate I live in but that also helped to never have it gone before I could fill it up again

Edited by cbudshome

Claudia-noo-siggie.jpg

Missing my little Misty who took a huge piece of my heart with her on 5/2/09, and Ekko, on 6/28/12

 

 

:candle For the sick, the lost, and the homeless

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Guest oldNELLIE

After speaking to the vet we have desided to test first for the following...

Cushings, thyroid and kidney and the ADH. Also the possibility of a UTI is still on the table. He also mentioned cancer. :(

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