Abbey Update #4

[Guest Piila]

After looking at the FNA slides and the x-rays, Dr. Couto has come to the conclusion that Abbey does have a very malignant cancer, but that the location of the tumour and the look of the x-rays aren't perfect for osteo. He thinks Abbey has bone hemangiosarcoma, which, from what I understand is bone cancer due to a blood cancer. It's not necessarily primary, but likely due to metastasis from somewhere else. There's a possibility that it might be a soft tissue sarcoma that has invaded the bone as well. All three options would require amptuation and chemo. So I'm back to square one, with the decision not to do amputation and chemo. However, explaining this on the phone to Dr. Vilar, I didn't feel comfortable as he of course was pushing for the amp/chemo route, or even just chemo ($2000). But if it only extends his life and doesn't cure the disease, I don't think I agree. Maybe for other people it's a good decision, but I don't think it is for me for a variety of reasons. But that decision of course leaves feelings of being an irresponsible and selfish pet owner.

 

has anyone out there had experience with bone hemangiosarcoma?

 

This sucks.

[Jackandgrey]

I don't have experience with that form of cancer BUT whatever your decision it is the right one. You are not obliged to do amp and chemo to prove to anyone that you are "good" owner. If that is not the right decision for you and Abbey then it will be respected here.

[Guest BradyzMommy]

I have no experience in this area, but you and only you know what is right for you and your pup.

:grouphug

[patricia]

No experience here. You have to follow your heart...I don't really think that any of us can be 100% sure what we would do until placed in the situation you are in now. Hug sweet Abbey for me.

[RobinM]

I am so very sorry for the daignosis of Abbey. So freaking sad.

 

Polli as you may or may not know is an almost 10 year old brood mom who has osteo and is 10 weeks post amputation and has one more chemo to go in 2 weeks. It was not easy, but looking back - it wasn't horrible. There were horrible moments... like when I heard the word tumor, amputation, seeing her expression the first time I saw her as a tripod, hearing how uncomfortable she was for a few days, her eating disorder in full swing...

 

But more than anything, there has been greyt moments... like when she was tired of waiting for DH or I to come and get her from down the stairs and she thought to herself, oh the he77 with this, and she ran up the stairs, or the first time she playbowed on 3 legs, ran with the pack on 3 legs, jumped up to kiss me on three legs.

 

I began to see it as not that Polli has 3 legs, but Polli does not have cancer and she is no longer hurting. What more could I ask for?

 

Whatever decision you make has to be one you are comfortable with. If the cost of the chemo is an issue, OSU will supply it for you and your vets will administer it for Abbey.

 

Many prayers for Abbey.

[duncan41]

Oh, I am so sorry! My only experience is with lymphosarcoma. I did the whole chemo thing, but Nikki only made it to treatment 8 of 13 - she just couldn't tolerate the chemo. Of course, that was 3 years ago and I didn't know about GT and the wealth of experience others offer so willingly. We did consult with Dr. Couto who not only concurred with the chemo protocol but agreed when it was time to suspend chemo. This is very, very hard to say, but had I to do it all again, I would have just made her as comfortable for as long as possible and just spoiled her to pieces without chemo. She did end up with 3 good months after the chemo was stopped.

 

Only you can decide what's best for Abbey and you. DO NOT feel guilty. DO NOT condemn yourself as selfish. I beat myself up on both sides of that fence; I should never have done any chemo or I should have done more research on meds that would have made her more comfortable during chemo. I should have fed her MickeyD's. I should have taken her to an oncologist. And on and on and on. At the end of the day, I was dealt a hand and played it to the best of my ability. I will always love Nikki with all of my heart - she was my heart.

 

I hate this disease. I hate the fact that not a day goes by that another beautiful greyt dog is diagnosed or crosses the bridge. I pray that in my lifetime there will be a cure or at least more of a fighting chance. I pray that someday I will hear Dr. Couto say that the the 2 of 3 odds that racing greyhounds will get cancer that he told his audience at 2008 Sandy Paws are changing in the greyhound's favor. Most of all, I pray that you and Abbey and all of the greyt dogs with owners fighting for their lives will have many sunny, fun filled, love filled days together.

Edited December 19, 2008 by duncan41

[Guest IrskasMom]

 

 

Whatever you decide is best for your Abby, sending you lots of Hugs and Prayers

[Batmom]

Hemangiosarcoma, other than the cutaneous type, doesn't respond well to chemo. It tends to be an aggressively metastatic cancer, which means that by the time you find it, it's somewhere else, too. I'm suspecting you already know that.

 

From my own experience with a different aggressively metastatic cancer in a dog, I will say that university docs tend to recommend all possible tests and interventions. That's their job -- to try their darnedest to save and/or prolong life. It's the owner's job to say, "Well, wait a minute. What does that really do for my dog and me? What are the possible outcomes, and the likely ones?"

 

I did try one dose of chemo for my dog on the very slim chance that it would make him comfortable for a little longer. It didn't make him sicker, but the antibiotics needed to protect his immune system after the chemo *did* make him ill. I ended up feeling that I'd spent several hundred dollars and made my dog miserable for a week that could have been a good week for him. We were lucky -- we had several more good months together after that. I didn't continue the chemo, and in a similar case, I wouldn't try it again.

 

Sending lots of hugs and prayers for you and your pupper.

[Guest BoogieDown]

I'm sorry about this diagnosis. Cancer sucks.

 

A responsible and loving pet owner provides the best home that they can for their pet. You are giving a wonderful life to a wonderful hound. Please don't let the doctor push you or make you feel guilty. I know, the decisions are never easy, and we continue to second-guess ourselves for a long time. But the important thing is not how long our pets live; it's how well they live. Abbey is living in a great home, with people that love her. That's all that matters.

[Guest ChasesMum]

I am so so sorry.

 

Due to the severe pain George was in we had the option of putting him down or amputation, so we chose amputation just to make him comfortable for however long he had left. Once he healed (took a month or so) we had 3 more really good months with him. We saw the side of him that we had longed to see, and he graced us with that for all the time he had. The amp for him was terrible, and he was a bad patient but I am glad we did it. I am also glad we didnt choose chemo because I don't think he would have done well and the logistics were just not there for our family. We were moving houses in 4 months but would be without a house for 10 weeks then in a 2 story with all laminate, and I was pregnant (or would prove to be halfway through the 4 mos we had left)... it was fairer to everyone to do one but not the other. It was a hard decision but once it was made it felt right...so therefore we felt we made the right decision, if that makes sense.

 

As has been said, you don't have to go all out and get another mortgage on your house or max out your visa to be a good dog owner, only you can choose what is right for your family, and your dog. And despite your vet's recommendation, its not right for everyone.

 

*hugs* its so hard, one day Dr Couto will find a cure!

[gazehund]

If you are a selfish and irresponsible dog owner than I am right there with you. Amputation is simply not an option for Bones who is dealing with osteo right now nor was it for Kia whom we lost in March.

I wholeheartedly support the folks who have decided to go that route and I pray every day their dogs do well. Several of them have done very well and I am happy for them. I respect their choice to amputate and my real friends respect my choice not to. Everybody else just does not matter.

 

This is not a test. There is no right or wrong. There is only what you decide is the best course of action for you and your dog.

 

What helps me the most is to focus on the moment you are in. If your dog is comfortable and happy in that moment, don't worry about anything else. Not what is going to happen tomorrow, how will this all play out, what do people think (that is a serious non consideration for me). None of that. Enjoy the time you have with your dog RIGHT NOW. While he is still with you and feeling well.

 

I wish you the best. This is a tough road to walk, but as a very dear friend me, I am not alone in this. Neither are you. Take care. We are here to listen.

[tamborine]

My Magic had cutaneous hemangiosarcoma, surgically removed, and was good for months, but started limping in mid-Dec. (this was back in 2000). Xrays showed a tumor on his femur. I took him to an oncologist, who said it was most likely the hemangiosarcoma, with a very slight chance that it was a separate osteosarcoma. He recommended amputation and chemo, and said that WITH these Magic could live another 3 months or so, maybe even longer. He actually said that's what he would do if Magic were HIS dog. Now my boy was severely arthritic.... how was he going to walk on 3 legs comfortably? Plus he was 12 years old, and not a "young" 12, either. I thought it would be cruel to subject him to all that for the sake of a few months, so I took him home, tried to control his pain, and finally let him go to the bridge a few days after the new year.

 

Sending hugs to Abbey and you.

[dmswartzfager]

Not bone hemangiosarcoma, but a malignant histiocytosis in the leg bone - very rare - Dr. Couto's staff diagnosed it - I drove Tyler to OSU after feeling like we weren't getting answers fast enough locally. Tyler was five and a half years old. We were all ready to amputate, but upon further testing, it looked like it was possible some lymph nodes or possibly his spleen were involved, though his lungs were clear. I suppose we could've amputated and done chemo, but he probably would've had only a few months, and so they didn't recommend it - and MH doesn't respond well to chemo. So I drove him back home and we let him go within the week. The bone doctor at OSU felt the leg could snap at any time, so we watched him like a hawk, then let him go before he was ready because we were so afraid it would break when we weren't there, or even when we were, and he'd have to have that pain for however long it took us to get him to the vet. It sucked. It was about four weeks from the first limp to Tyler's death.

 

It's an intensely personal decision, and dependent on the dog. Honestly, if any of our current crew gets a bone cancer diagnosis, we will not be going the amp/chemo route, but for different reasons for each. One's too fat and has problems with corns, one's too much of a spook/scared of the vets, and the other two have a combination of issues, including age, that make them poor candidates in my mind. Yet we were ready to do the amp/chemo route for Tyler, and that would've been the right decision for him, barring other factors.

 

 

[Jiffer]

 

Boogiedown above said it best.

 

Being a good owner is making the best choices for the both of you. Don't let anyone tell you any different!

[HopeForHounds]

Paula, I was so hoping for better news. Reality bites sometimes.

 

There is nothing irresponsible or selfish about your decision. You've made it knowing that if you did the surgery, Abbey would likely have severe complications or die. Doing chemo without the amputation would maybe buy you a bit more time. Time that you will likely be away for.

Know that your decision is the right one for both of you. Live in the here and now when you are with him, enjoy his company, make memories, take lots of pictures and most of all, love each other.

 

Let me know if you need anything. Maybe you two can come for a visit during the holidays.

[Hawthorn]

Everyone else has said everything I wanted to say, but I just wanted to add my support too. You are most definitely not a selfish or irresponsible owner. I have been in the same situation as you, with a greyhound the same age, and I made the decision not to amputate or do chemo. I researched it all very carefully and then decided it wasn't right for us although I have the utmost respect for all those who do choose that route. Amputation is a very painful operation and chemo is not without it's complications and the chances are high that it would only buy Abbey a few more months at most. You have to trust your gut instincts and try not to second-guess yourself. You are in a horrible situation and you would probably feel guilty whatever decision you make.

 

[Guest greytmonty]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I agree that only you know what is best for your dog. Please join circle of grey at yahoo groups , it is all greyhound folks dealing with cancer.