Amputation Of A Part Of The Body (dog)

[Guest Elcyion]

It have been a lot of debate around this subject on my swedish adoption-forum, and I was wondering what you think. Amputation (on animals) is still a rare thing in sweden, and I think a lot of you live in countrys, where it´s more socialy accepted...

• What do you think about amputating a backleg on your own dog?
• If you buy an uninsured dog, who´s already amputated, can you get dog fullt insured?
• How good/bad is the prognosis that this dogs won´t get problems later in life? Like over strain muscles in their backs, lay their weight wrong and get problems with other parts of their body?
• Do this dogs (in generall) live as long as those without amputation?

Feel free to add your own thoughts even if they dont fit in any of my "categories"!

[Guest EmilyAnne]

This is a sensitive topic that touches the hearts of many here at GT. And I don't think it's something that should ever be debated because it's too personal of a decision.

[Guest lauri]

I agree with EmilyAnn.

[patricia]

[Bevd]

What do I think?

 

I think....no, I KNOW that having a front leg amputated saved my Darcy's life 360 days ago.

 

This topic could get hairy. But hopefully it won't.

 

Edit - I am in the UK.

Edited October 11, 2008 by Bevd

[Guest simile]

I think the answers to each one of those categories is dependent on the reason for amputation. If the reason is an illness, such as cancer, I believe there are already statistics on continued health, longevity, etc. depending on age, treatment options, when the cancer was caught, and so on, so the decisions become VERY individual and personal. If the amputation is due to injury, like a broken or crushed leg, that's a whole different ball game. It's apples and oranges, really. But it still comes down to the personal decision of the people involved and the overall health of that individual dog.

[Guest lanielovesgreys]

I feel terrible for people who have to make the decision. I'm considering adopting a tripod so I'm curious about the insurance thing too.

 

IMO, it is a very personal decision. What's right for someone could be definitely wrong for another. A friend of mine chose not to amputate, and I think it was right in that situation. Another friend, recently amputated, and I think that was right in THAT situation.

 

 

[Guest Elcyion]

The main thing with the discussion on the swedish forum, was the fear of complications for the dog years later. If you summon all that was writen, almost everyone was possitiv to amputation, ASLONG as there were medical reasearch that "prove" that 90-95% of the dogs don´t get complications later in life.

It´s was more fact based answers I was after. Do you have research on this topic? I refered to your own dog, to make you think once och twice more before you answered. To really take all your knowledge about possible complications, and answer from that. I´m not that much intrested about if you have or don´t have a dog that´s amputeted.

I´m only intrested in any complications, to see how many of the dog that have complications after the healing and adjustment period, and how old they are now, how old they were when they were amputetad/how long they been amputated.

I hope you understand what I mean. Sometimes I think och a english word, and writes the swedish anyway

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

I think when it's a broken leg issue and it's not due to cancer or something along those lines the answers are way different.

 

We had a girl who was not even two when she had a horrible break. It was basically either amputate the leg or have her PTS. It was a group purchase so many foks were involved. One owner basically said, AMPUTATE and that is what was done.

At 6 yrs old now I hear she's doing well. She had some other medical issues but nothing related to her amputation.

 

To me on this type of situation I could care less what happens when they are 10 yrs old. Cause it's the hear and now that matters. I look at it basically along the same lines as having a seziure dog and do I put them on the meds or not.

It's the quality of life they have for the majority of their life that makes the choice for me.

 

So yes I believe that amputated limbs later in life will cause issues for the limbs that are still there but I also think that for the majority of their life it's a basic non factor.

 

As far as the girl we did amputate the leg with. Here are some photo of her I would say about 3-4 weeks after her amputation. Heck, she even tried to jump into our SUV

Nothing held this girl back!

Charm City

[Burpdog]

I would do acupuncture and/or chiropractic (not the Australian method, ever) on an amp dog as a follow up treatment(s) -- heck, even my 4 legged guys get that I believe it helps a lot.

 

I think keeping in shape is important. For instance, Winslow swims and does walks. Glynis won't let him run because he has a bone spur in his front paw (was to be operated on before the cancer was diagnosed). When that paw swelled from some unknown cause, Winslow ran on two legs (video in his thread).

 

So, yes it's possible for them to have a good life after amputation.

 

 

[Guest Elcyion]

I´ve alson seen happy dogs with amputated legs. The problem (I see), is that all fotages are at max 1-2 years after the dog have had their leg removed. I think a dog can live a happy life at first, but I´m still wondering/concerned about the possible long term complications.

 

Burpdog: I think your idea about acupuncture and chiropractic is great!

 

How about insurens? Have you been able to insurens your dogs? What I understod (from the swedish forum) is that we apperently can´t insure an amputeted dog. I could have got it wrong. It´s my conclusion of the posts.

 

Have any of you had an amputeted dog that´s past away? How old did it get, and way is the animal not with you anymore (age, other injury...?)

[Sighthounds4me]

Honestly, I think if a dog has good quality of life for a substantial period of time after an amputation, that's a good thing.

 

What I mean is, if the dog lives 1 - 2 years after the amp, and make it through the recovery period, that's good enough for me.

 

One example that I have of NOT amputating is our Gunnar. He was diagnosed with bone cancer at 11 years old. He was frail enough at that time that we decided to not even move forward with a biopsy, much less an amputation. We did not think his quality of life would be good enough for a long enough period of time to put him through the recovery. So we chose to medicate for the pain, and love him as long as we could. We had him with us another 4 months, before he had a really rough couple of days. He was in more pain than he had been, and was obviously uncomfortable, so we euthanised him in his favorite sunny spot in our living room, surrounded by his people.

 

My point is that if I felt that a dog could have a good quality of life, for even 6 months after the recovery, I would consider an amputation. But if I did not think my dog could handle it, I would not do it.

 

I know that did not answer your questions, Elciyon, but it's the best I can do! Welcome to Greytalk!

[Guest Mommydog]

I think it depends very much on the reason for amputation, the prognosis, and the temperament of the dog concerned.As far as my boy Joe is concerned, then no, it's very unlikely I would have amputation, because I just don't feel he is sort of dog that would cope with it very well. As for Jack then I'd have no hesitation, he came close to losing his leg through injury prior to coming to me, and now walks with a permanent limp. But he copes very well. As for insurance, when I insured Jack they refused to insure his bad leg, regardless of the fact that any future claim could be for something totally unrelated to the original injury. The only problem I've had in the last 5 years, is that he once got an infection in his bad foot. However it cleared up quite quickly with antibiotics. I've only known one tripod before, she had her leg amputated due to a bad break, but that girl could run! She could certainly keep with Joe, she loved to run the rabbits too.

[greysmom]

Many of your questions are about medical insurance for amputees, and I doubt you will get very many answers to it. Pet medical insurance is still very new here in the US and not very many people insure their pets. I have 7 companion animals (3 greys and 4 cats) and none have medical insurance.

 

I would imagine that it would be harder, if not impossible, to insure an amputee. Particularly if the surgery was because of cancer. It might be less of an issue if there was a bad break or something not disease related that necessitated the amputation.

 

I'm sure there are statistics about the length of time cancer amputees survive, but I don't know them. Non-cancer survivors would have the same expectations as non-amputeed greys I would think. There might be more of a chance for muscle and skeletal issues, but if the owner is diligent in keeping their dog in shape and generally healthy, it shouldn't impact their length of life.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to adopt an amputee - or tripod - greyhound. These dogs adapt remarkably quickly and are happy and content.

 

greysmom

[Guest Elcyion]

Many of your questions are about medical insurance for amputees, and I doubt you will get very many answers to it. Pet medical insurance is still very new here in the US and not very many people insure their pets. I have 7 companion animals (3 greys and 4 cats) and none have medical insurance.

 

I would never dare to not have my anilmals insured. I think I have to pay a lot of many WITH the insurens. What do I need to pay without it? *shiver* I have one greyhound and 2 cats. All with their different problems All have different problems with their teeth, and one of the cats have some problems with her ears.

 

[Guest Mommydog]

Many of your questions are about medical insurance for amputees, and I doubt you will get very many answers to it. Pet medical insurance is still very new here in the US and not very many people insure their pets. I have 7 companion animals (3 greys and 4 cats) and none have medical insurance.

 

I would never dare to not have my anilmals insured. I think I have to pay a lot of many WITH the insurens. What do I need to pay without it? *shiver* I have one greyhound and 2 cats. All with their different problems All have different problems with their teeth, and one of the cats have some problems with her ears.

 

Just out of curiosity, does your pet insurance cover problems with their teeth ? Most insurers in the UK don't cover dental problems.

 

[Guest Elcyion]

Many of your questions are about medical insurance for amputees, and I doubt you will get very many answers to it. Pet medical insurance is still very new here in the US and not very many people insure their pets. I have 7 companion animals (3 greys and 4 cats) and none have medical insurance.

 

I would never dare to not have my anilmals insured. I think I have to pay a lot of many WITH the insurens. What do I need to pay without it? *shiver* I have one greyhound and 2 cats. All with their different problems All have different problems with their teeth, and one of the cats have some problems with her ears.

 

Just out of curiosity, does your pet insurance cover problems with their teeth ? Most insurers in the UK don't cover dental problems.

 

Depends on the dentalproblem... Tartar and FORL they usually don´t cover. Some cover tarter, but lake out on something else. But I have an insurens for the rest I´ve been to the vet. numeres times with my grey. Urin infection (about 5 times), broken thumb claw, different little cuts from the woods. With my dog insurens, I can count together all my veterinary visits (not for dental och vaccination) that´s in a period of 120 days. If I in that time, come up to 1500 SEK I only pay 20% av the costs with the veterinary the rest of that period of 120 days.

 

My cat (x2) insurens is the samt thing. 1500 SEK + 20% But that one also takes antibiotics when I´ve reach my limit of 1500 SEK +20% in the 120 days period.

 

The rest is sometimes stretching hard on my economy. I took care of a cat my friend found, and after many if and buts, I thought that he was finally well. Then 2 (different) vets sais that he has FORL to *sigh*

 

What I ment earlier was that I don´t dare to be out of insurens, beacuse it makes me able to give them any treatment they need, even if my economi is stretched. A friend of mine hade a broken leg on her cat. That cost 4000 SEK at the veterinary. With insurens she paid 1500 SEK +500 SEK (the 500 SEK is that 20% you have to pay your self). Instead of 4000 SEK, she had to pay 2000 SEK.

 

1000 SEK is about 136,92 USDollars.

 

EDIT: If the animal have good teeth when I insure it, and an accident heppendes and the animal brakes a teeth, I think that kind of dental work is included.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Elcyion

[Guest EmilyAnne]

For me, wether or not the dog's health would be insurable after the amputation would definately *not* play a factor in the decision of wether or not to amputate.

 

So do they discontinue the insurance when a dog develops a special need? That seems to defeat the purpose of the insurance doesn't it?

 

I've never had pet insurance on any of my pets. Henry came to us with epilepsy and so I know there's no way I could get him covered now. I manage to pay for whatever he needs one way or another. My other pets I just simply never got them insured. Fortunately our vets have always worked with us on that. We know it's a privilege that the vet lets us make payments, so we are careful to make all payments as promised.

[Guest Elcyion]

So do they discontinue the insurance when a dog develops a special need? That seems to defeat the purpose of the insurance doesn't it?

 

For me it´s importent that I "save" the dog to a good life in the feature if I would have to do an amputation.

 

If the dog is insured allready and you then need to do an amputation, the insurens will still be full (no exception linked to the amputation will be). But if it´s NOT insured when you do the amputation... That´s a hole other story.

Some of this discussion was about a dog who was amputeted before she could be adopted away. She´s still in recovery. When the new owner/s take her, they WILL HAVE problems insuring her. I don´t know if the can insure the dog at all, or if they can insure with exeptions.

An other part were, how much money will the new owners be forced to put in to her recovery, and how long will she be able to live a good life with them, without saying the wonder if the new owner/s will have a fun family member or a dog who constantly costs a lot of money without inpruvments = the treament is only for short term inprovments/only push the "pain" infront of the dog. I hope you understand what I mean!

About whether it´s the right thing to do or not, is nothing I think we need to discuss here.

This is more for information were my questions and thoughts come from

 

[Bevd]

My insurance company (or rather companies, because half of our gang are with one company and half are with another) continue to cover the dog regardless of what's happened during the previous policy year. When Darcy's renewal came through at the end of August (a joyous day indeed) I checked it for any exclusions and there were none at all

 

But - this is because I have selected a Covered for Life policy for each of the dogs. There's no point having insurance until something goes wrong, you claim for it and then the company no longer wants to insure you! And sadly there are MANY companies offing that sort of policy. You just have to choose your company and your policy very carefully.

[silverfish]

Medicine is not an exact science. You will find no statistics to guarantee anything, not when it comes to health and future problems. Nobody can say 'this dog will have this number of years of good quality life' or even 'this dog will have five years of life after the amputation'. So many things can go wrong, and also, so many dogs will surprise you and do better than you think.

 

Jack is not an amputee, but we thought he might have six months, maybe a year, when we adopted him as a senior in poor health. He's still with us three years later and is a very happy little dog. Sure, he has health issues, but we all do as we get older. An amputee will have different health problems, maybe. Maybe not.

 

I understand that the insurance problem may cause difficulties. But when it comes to the choice of 'do you amputate or not', well, you have to make the decision on the vet's advice, the age and health of the dog, and your own feelings on the matter. Usually the choice is 'amputate or put the dog to sleep'. Clearly the cost does come into it for most people, but if you're talking about the dog and quality of life, isn't three years better than none?

 

It may be something of a gamble a lot of the time, but that's the way it is, sadly.

[Guest Elcyion]

If the prognosis isn´t as good as I want it to be, I will put my dog to sleep if that questions comes up. I refuse to make her go thrue that kind of operation beacuse of me. The only chance that I´d let her go thrue with it, was if I felt the her quality of life was good for many years.

A toe is one thing. Or the tip of the tail. It´s small things. But I´m really unsure of bigger things like a leg.

[Guest EmilyAnne]

Elcyion, have you ever met a tripod?

[Bevd]

If the prognosis isn´t as good as I want it to be, I will put my dog to sleep if that questions comes up. I refuse to make her go thrue that kind of operation beacuse of me. The only chance that I´d let her go thrue with it, was if I felt the her quality of life was good for many years.

A toe is one thing. Or the tip of the tail. It´s small things. But I´m really unsure of bigger things like a leg.

I'm not going to argue the point with you I just hope that you never have to make a choice like many of us have.

[Guest Elcyion]

Nothing in this thread has made me more sure of the quality of life the dog gets years after the operation. In MY (only my own) opinion, that feels like keeping the dog allive for my own selfish reasons, and not for the dogs.