Foster With Liver Failure

[Guest BoomerMom]

GALT's latest stray greyhound is at my house recovering from liver failure. He was picked up in Fort Worth last weekend in pretty bad shape and taken to a shelter. He should be around 80 lbs. but is only about 50 and was covered in ticks. A person at the shelter had a free sample of ProMeris lying around and thought it would be a good idea to give it to the hound instead of manually removing the ticks. I don't know how is was given to him, but he went into liver failure. He was given IV fluids and finally released to GALT yesterday.

 

Dr. S at PPAH is treating him but at this point we are trying to get him stabilized until all of the tests come back and we know exactly how bad his liver is damaged. He is eating and drinking. His membranes are yellow and his urine is very bright yellow. There is yellow discharge from his nose that is tinged with a tiny bit of blood.

 

I have been told to put him on milk thistle but have never used it and don't know anything about it. I would really appreciate it anyone with experience with liver issues could give me some suggestions to help pull him through.

 

Thanks,

 

Kelly

 

 

[NeylasMom]

It may be too late for this, but did the tests include a TBD panel?

 

You can buy milk thistle under the name Marin on Omaha Vaccine. The other supplement you might try is sam-E. Costco has it, as does Trader Joe's. It's not as cheap, but if you can get it at Costco it's not bad. Both are supposed to support hte liver, but I have no idea if they'll help if he's in the advanced stages.

 

Someone on here will know much more. You're really kind to take this boy in.

[Guest BoomerMom]

It may be too late for this, but did the tests include a TBD panel?

 

You can buy milk thistle under the name Marin on Omaha Vaccine. The other supplement you might try is sam-E. Costco has it, as does Trader Joe's. It's not as cheap, but if you can get it at Costco it's not bad. Both are supposed to support hte liver, but I have no idea if they'll help if he's in the advanced stages.

 

Someone on here will know much more. You're really kind to take this boy in.

 

 

The TBD panel is one of the test results we are waiting for - Dr. S is pretty sure he has Erlichia. The good news is that he is heartworm negative. I've got him on antibiotics (clavamox & doxy) and I'm sure I'll get more meds when the test results come back.

 

Thanks for the info on Marin & sam-E. I'll go to Costco at lunch.

 

 

[Rickiesmom]

Some herbs are not safe if there is already liver damage. I know milk thistle is supposed to support the liver and may not be in that category, but it would be worth finding out from an alt med vet if you have access to one.

[Burpdog]

Milk thistle, (also known as Silymarin), is commonly used to protect the liver from damage, as well as help the liver regenerate after damage has occurred. Milk thistle can be useful for those who use phenobarbitol, which can be toxic to the liver

 

from the site: http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/MilkThistle.html

[sweetdogs]

I post links from this site all the time because it's so comprehensive: Dogaware.com - liver disease. It talks about meds, diet & bloodwork among other things. A lot of it is about chronic liver disease but much of it should be applicable to your foster's acute situation.

 

I have heard very good things about Country Life Liver Support Factors (NAYY). It's got milk thistle, inositol & choline that are all good for the liver as well as a number of herbs.

 

Here is the dosing on milk thistle itself: (from Canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com)

"Dr. Dodds recommends using milk thistle in the doses listed below to help heal the liver along with reducing phenobarbital (according to your vet) and feeding the liver cleansing diet.

 

Milk Thistle Dosage (from the newsletter "Healthy Pets - Naturally"):

 

Dog's size

Dose as % of adult human dose

5 lbs 10%

5-10 lbs 15%

11-20 lbs 20%

21-40 lbs 30%

41-70 lbs 50%

71-100 lbs 75%

100 lbs 100%"

 

[Guest BoomerMom]

Thanks so much for the info! I'm a little wary of random info found on the internet.

 

Do you suggest that I put him on the "liver cleansing diet" listed there?

[Burpdog]

I would not put a sick animal on a liver cleansing diet unless under a vet's care and they suggested it. Use the milk thistle to help his liver though

[Guest Greysx4]

One of my boys has some liver issues and the vet put him on milk thistle and SAM-e and he's doing greyt. I have found the best place to buy the SAM-e is iherb.com. I buy the Jarrow Formula SAM-e - 60 tablets - 200mg for $22. Shipping is less than $2.

I give him 175 mg milk thistle and 200 mg SAM-e twice a day.

 

[sweetdogs]

I think her liver cleansing diet is very high in carbs & too low in protein & fat for your foster: (from c-e-g-a.com again)

 

"The liver cleansing diet has been formulated by W. Jean Dodds, DVM. Dr. Dodds recommends a formula of 2 cups of pollack, cod or any other low fat white fish fillet to 6 cups of veggies and potatoes, or 25% pollack, cod or any other low fat white fish fillet to 75% veggies and potatoes. This diet has proved extremely successful in reversing liver damage along with reducing Phenobarbital.

 

1 and 1/2 cups moist white cooking potatoes

1 and 1/2 cups sweet potatoes

1 and 1/2 cups of zucchini

1 and 1/2 cup string beans, celery or summer squash

2 cups pollack, cod or any other low fat white fish fillet

 

Wash the potatoes well and cut them up crosswise into 2" pieces so the skin circles the potatoes. Simmer for 45 minutes to 1 hour and remove the skins.

 

Wash the zucchini and cut up with string beans, celery or squash and steam or cook until very tender.

 

2 cups pollack, cod or any other low fat white fish fillet poached in a frying pan with water until fish is white and flaky.

 

Mix all ingredients together until it is well blended. This will give you approximately 8 cups of food. Depending on the size of your dog, you can double or triple the recipe. For flavor you can add a pinch of garlic powder and a little Italian Seasoning to each meal."

I think I'd go in this direction: (from dogaware.com)

"Dietary guidelines

If your dog is showing symptoms of liver disease, it may make sense to make some dietary adjustments. It is better to feed several small meals a day rather than one or even two, if possible. I would recommend feeding moderate amounts of both high quality protein and fat. Dairy products, including cottage cheese, ricotta cheese and yogurt, may be easier to digest and produce less ammonia than meat products -- you may want to look for low salt varieties if you feed a lot of cottage cheese, or if your dog develops ascites (fluid retention). Eggs are an excellent protein source for dogs with liver disease. White fish can also be used.

 

Liver disease is one condition where it makes sense to add grains, as soluble fiber helps remove ammonia from the system so the liver does not have to process it. Oatmeal is particularly high in soluble fiber and would be good to use, as long as your dog doesn't have any problems with it (be sure to use whole rolled or quick oats, not instant). Boiled white rice and, to a lesser degree, pasta are useful due to their high digestibility. I prefer feeding at least half meat and other animal products, and no more than half grains and other carbohydrates, unless less protein is needed to control symptoms of hepatic encephalopathy. For those who use a spreadsheet, you should feed a minimum of 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight daily, and carbohydrates should not provide more than 45% of calories."

Since he's already so underweight, he needs the calories from protein & fat. Eggs, fish, cottage cheese are good with a bunch of small meals (you're probably already doing that because of his weight). Since this is hopefully a temporary problem, I think you can modify what you're feeding him to reduce the strain on his liver but not as radically as the cleansing diet.

 

eta: quotey things

Edited April 18, 2008 by sweetdogs

[Guest BoomerMom]

I think I'd go in this direction: (from dogaware.com)

"Dietary guidelines

If your dog is showing symptoms of liver disease, it may make sense to make some dietary adjustments. It is better to feed several small meals a day rather than one or even two, if possible. I would recommend feeding moderate amounts of both high quality protein and fat. Dairy products, including cottage cheese, ricotta cheese and yogurt, may be easier to digest and produce less ammonia than meat products -- you may want to look for low salt varieties if you feed a lot of cottage cheese, or if your dog develops ascites (fluid retention). Eggs are an excellent protein source for dogs with liver disease. White fish can also be used.

 

Liver disease is one condition where it makes sense to add grains, as soluble fiber helps remove ammonia from the system so the liver does not have to process it. Oatmeal is particularly high in soluble fiber and would be good to use, as long as your dog doesn't have any problems with it (be sure to use whole rolled or quick oats, not instant). Boiled white rice and, to a lesser degree, pasta are useful due to their high digestibility. I prefer feeding at least half meat and other animal products, and no more than half grains and other carbohydrates, unless less protein is needed to control symptoms of hepatic encephalopathy. For those who use a spreadsheet, you should feed a minimum of 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight daily, and carbohydrates should not provide more than 45% of calories."

Since he's already so underweight, he needs the calories from protein & fat. Eggs, fish, cottage cheese are good with a bunch of small meals (you're probably already doing that because of his weight). Since this is hopefully a temporary problem, I think you can modify what you're feeding him to reduce the strain on his liver but not as radically as the cleansing diet.

 

eta: quotey things

 

 

Thank you so much!!! The internet connection at the office today is incredibly slow and searching is taking forever.

 

He ate some i/d last night and this morning I added a litte kibble. I'm trying to be very careful about what I give him so that I don't make him any worse. Eggs & oatmeal sounds like a safe combination.

 

[Guest Carla]

Sending prayers for a full recovery.

[Guest greytloves]

Wow. Our Therapet group passed an e mail around the other day about ProMeris and the dangers. I posted this out there to our board (which has a few vets on it and about 5 animal trainers) will see if they have any input.

 

Can't offer any advise other then, you guys rock. I know if he stands a chance at making it, he is in the right hands.

 

(your East Texas buddy)

[sweetdogs]

Eggs & oatmeal sounds like a safe combination.

What's his name so we can root for him?

[CaliforniaGreys]

No experience here but plenty of prayers for him. I too would like to know his name?

[Guest BoomerMom]

Eggs & oatmeal sounds like a safe combination.

What's his name so we can root for him?

 

 

Introducing Sgt. Pepper:

 

 

 

He's almost two year old stray who has very recently been double tattooed. His ears are still bruised and we were able to clean a bunch of green ink out of his left ear last night. Have I mentioned recently that some people really suck?

 

[CaliforniaGreys]

Eggs & oatmeal sounds like a safe combination.

What's his name so we can root for him?

:

Introducing Sgt. Pepper:

 

 

 

He's almost two year old stray who has very recently been double tattooed. His ears are still bruised and we were able to clean a bunch of green ink out of his left ear last night. Have I mentioned recently that some people really suck?

Suck??? You're being way too kind Sgt Pepper...please get well

[Guest greytloves]

Wow. Poor beautiful baby. People oh so suck, but then there are non sucky people that take him in!

[Guest lotsagreys4me]

Oh, my heart is breaking for St. Pepper. I pray he will be okay. Please keep us posted.............

[Guest paulamariez]

Oh Sergeant Pepper you poor, precious baby! You will be on the top of my prayer list, because you certainly need all the prayers you can get. I can't believe someone did that to you! You sweet innocent baby. How can people be so absolutely cruel? I will keep your tender heart in my thoughts and prayers for a quick healing and complete recovery. I'm sending Sergeant Pepper tons of love and kisses and Tiger, Bueller and Domino are sending you lots of healing doggie kisses too. Be strong my precious one! You can fight this! You've already proven that you are a fighter and you are a winner too! My heart is breaking looking at your picture, but you are one beautiful boy and don't you forget it! Such pretty colors and markings. What a handsome boy! Sending love and prayers!!

 

Paula Marie, Tiger, Bueller and Domino

[Guest greytloves]

bump for update

 

You must update us on Monday, Kelly!

[Guest argolola]

God bless him. He is on my prayer list.

[4greyhounds]

I am sorry I have no suggestions, But I am sending lots of prayers and white light.

[VinnieAndRexsMom]

You can get milk thistle at the drug store and at big stores like Walmart. Some folks don't care for the Walmart brand, but I saved my liver with it (My liver specialist did not like SamE and was adamently against it, but he had seen studies on milk thistle and he was very supportive of me taking it)

Run, don't walk, and get that boy some milk thistle -- if you haven't all ready -- and give him the people kind. I did not feel it was expensive at all.

 

Sending hugs for you and healing thoughts for "Pepper."

[Guest greytloves]

bump for update...