Overweight

[Guest vampthing]

Hi again - hope I'm not repeating a topic that's been up before, I guess it must have been but can't see anything in the last few months when I search.

 

Anyway - my grey is officially Too Big.

 

His racing weight was 31 kilos, and I adopted him shortly after his last race.

 

The vet told me he should put on a couple of kilos from his racing weight to get to a healthy, comfortable weight. He put the weight on and that was fine. This was nearly 4 years ago.

 

Last month I saw the vet nurse for something and got him weighed too. He was 38 kilos! OOOPS!

 

So I immediately cut out the fattening treats (you know how food oriented they are!) and the ones I did buy were low fat. Then I sat down and methodically cut them into tiny bits, so he still got treats at certain times (like a reward for being "busy" in the garden, and when we are going out for a while and leaving him at home), but now he would get a quarter of a treat rather than a whole one.

 

When they ran out, I bought his favourite complete food, and give small pieces of that as a treat, while his meals are the regular kibble from the supermarket.

 

So he's no longer getting fattening stuff, just regular dog food, but he still thinks he is getting a reward.

 

So today when we went to the vet I said I'd also like him weighed, to see what effect it's had cutting down his treats for a month.

 

He had put ON a kilo!

 

Now, he was weighed before he'd done his morning businesses, which might allow for a bit of that, but I am disappointed that he hasn't lost any weight - I even thought I could see his ribs a little more than before!

 

I am not sure what else to do. We go for a walk for 20 mins in the morning and I throw balls for him in the garden in the afternoon, plus he will usually have a session in his digging pit burning up energy. I physically can't walk him more often (I am mobility impaired) and anyway, he's asleep during the day (if he was full of energy he'd be asking for another walk or a game in the garden).

 

The only thing I can think of is his food. Unfortunately while all the other greyhounds were kennelled in pairs, so they learnt to eat their food fast or someone else would, for some reason my dog was always kennelled alone while racing. So he has always had food available and snacked on it throughout the day when he wanted it.

 

I do the same at home - he has food down throughout the day but only a handful at a time. The bag suggests that for a dog over 25 kilos I should feed 1/4 of the 2kg bag, but actually we make a bag last a week, so he's surely not over eating.

 

Sometimes he gets bored of the food and complains, and his favourite food is passata (pureed tomatoes) so sometimes he gets a teaspoon or two of tomato juice over his food. But tomatoes aren't full of calories!

 

He's not stealing food either (I'm sure about that - anything tempting is always kept out of reach and booby traps laid on the bin!)

 

I've even tried him on a feeder ball, to make him work for his food and to make it last longer / be more fun, but he doesn't manage to roll the ball enough - his claws are a little long (long quicks) and he can't get the knack of kicking or rolling it to get the food out.

 

The vet says he's healthy and well, apart from being overweight - he suggested it was the food and treats, not thyroid or any other reason (although we weren't there for his weight problem; this was just observed in passing).

 

So what shall I do to get his weight down? I guess he has put the weight on slowly over a few years as we haven't noticed anything sudden. To be honest we probably did overdo the treats a bit in the past (as rewards) but in the last month my husband and I have been really careful, and if anything his weight has gone UP.

 

Any advice welcome!

[Jiffer]

Well, I'm not sure if it will help you... but when mine start looking a little porky, I don't change their feed at all (they about 4 cups of food a day and at least 3 milkbones), but I do increase the length of our walks. So instead of a 20 minute walk, I'll take them for a 30 -45 minute one.

 

If you are free-feeding him, you may want to consider just feeding him two meals a day. Morning and evening. You can better control how much he's eating that way. I follow the instructions on the bag, so my big boys (87 and 88lbs) get 4 cups of food daily. My smaller kiddos (75 and 65lbs) get 3.5 and 3.25 cups respectively.

[Guest vampthing]

Thanks I physically couldn't walk him for longer, but I get my husband to take him for a longer walk at a faster pace at weekends.

 

I could go further if I could manage him from my wheelchair (rather than on crutches) but unfortunately he can't cope with other animals so if we see another dog he goes nuts; I can only really control him when I'm on crutches if that happens. I have good or bad days but I always get out with him for 20 minutes, and play games in the garden.

 

I take your point about the food. I don't feed him in the evening (so he can hold on from bedtime til morning) but you're right; perhaps I should measure it more exactly, even if it stays down til he eats it. Can't hurt to have a better handle on things!

 

Any other ideas welcome! Otherwise I guess it's slow and steady; it took him a while to gain the weight so I guess it will take a while to lose it. I'm just a bit gutted not to see improvement in the last month after all my efforts!

[PatricksMom]

If you don't, I'd measure his meals--I find my estimations tend to be really off, so I've dedicated a plastic measuring cup to dog food.

 

Also, if he likes them, veggies make great treats with almost no calories, Patrick loves tomatoes in particular and anything crunchy--the ends of asparagus, broccoli stalks, etc.

 

If nothing seems to be working, I'd talk to the vet about doing some blood work. I know you said the vet thought he was healthy, but there's more beyond the basic thyroid panel that might be worth investigating if he keeps gaining.

[Guest team_weasel]

First of all, welcome to GreyTalk! We'd love to see photos of your gorgeous boy..

 

When giving treats, what I would do is each morning measure out his food that he will eat for the day. Out of that, pull out several bits of kibble and put aside. Use those bits as treats throughout the day. The rest of the food, separate it equally... give him half in the morning and half in the evening, if at all possible. This ensures he's not getting any additional treats (which are often higher in fat than kibble).

 

If your husband can walk him for another half hour each day, that would likely help as well. You mentioned your vet said it is not his thyroid.. Has your boy actually been tested? If by cutting back on treats and increasing exercise doesn't help, I would defnitely have him tested.

[DocsDoctor]

Yes - you need to make sure you weigh out his daily allowance of dry food exactly, it's easy to err on the side of generosity if you're doing it by eye. Make sure it's correct for the weight of dog he should be, rather than the one he currently is! And you can probably then reduce it by some, especially while he's slimming, since dog food manufacturers frequently overcalculate their recommended daily amounts (because they want to sell you more food!).

 

I'm a bit puzzled though by you saying the daily allowance on the supermarket pack is the same amount for all dogs over 25 kilos??? That could cover anything from a labrador to a St Bernard! The chart on the one I feed goes up in 5 kilo increments to 80 kilos. Some supermarket foods are not the best quality by the way -lots of artificial colourings and additives, including sugar - so that could be adding to the problem??? But if he likes it and it suits him otherwise just try reducing the quantities first.

 

Once you cut down the amount of dry food you can add in some veggies as others have suggested to bulk up his meal again and stop him feeling hungry. Some may be popular enough to be given as treats in their own right - experiment with different ones to see which he likes. Mine likes broccoli and cauliflower (stalks as well as florets), cabbage of any colour and swedes. He doesn't like carrots or any kind of fruit (though many dogs do) and peas and sweetcorn go straight through. He seems to prefer them lightly cooked so I freeze and store them in small containers, you could also try them raw or ready-frozen. Potatoes and sweet potatoes are also popular here but will be more fattening. Avoid onions which are toxic to dogs as you probably already know.

[Guest vampthing]

Thanks - the food he's on is Pero which is organic and contains free range chicken, no additives etc (I'm a strict vegetarian and although I'd never inflict that on my pets I still like to be conscious of what he's eating!)

 

And yes, it says "for a dog of X weight, you should feed Y amount" - in fact, all the foods I've tried say that, from Bakers to supermarket own brand. I make sure it's not too high in fat or protein and don't give him too much because some of those measurements are for working dogs.

 

I probably wasn't clear, I count him as being in the "over 25 kilos" category cos his ideal weight is about 32-33, but I can't remember what it goes up to. I think there's one higher category. To be honest I buy 2kg bags (he doesn't like stale food so I gave up on sacks) and the manufacturer probably assumes that if you have big dogs that will eat more than 1/4 bag a day, you would buy bigger packs!

 

He loves vegetables if they have sauce on them, he even eats lettuce if it's got dressing on, but he won't touch plain veg - even potato. It gets spat out with an expression which says "why did you give me THAT?" It's very annoying. I have tried giving him carrots etc. He used to eat an apple and to spend hours playing with it and eating it, but now an apple is boring and he turns his nose up. He likes banana, but they are quite high in natural sugars so he doesn't get any!

 

As I said he likes tomato so he gets a few drops of that over his food sometimes. But only cooked tomato, like grilled, or passata.

 

Not that he's fussy or anything(!)

 

I will keep trying him on vegetables though, because I can see that is quite a good idea. I might try putting some in his "treat box" so next time he asks for a treat I can produce a vegetable as if it's really special, and say "LUCKY BOY!"

 

He will probably see through that, but worth a try. And I'll definitely start measuring the food, and only replenishing it twice a day rather than when his bowl's empty.

 

I'll take him back to the vet to get weighed in another month; if there's no change I will check him in to get examined more thoroughly.

 

Thanks, hopefully we will get there. I can't be the first person with a fat hound?

[ahicks51]

One thing you could do is measure out how much food he eats in a 24 hour period; weigh it or do it by volume. Put out X amount one morning, and then compare it the next day at the same time. Divide that in two, and feed slightly less than that twice daily.

 

So, for example, if he eats 5 cups/day when free-fed, give him 2 cups/day morning and night. Keep doing this until the appropriate weight is reached- which can take weeks, but it's so slow they'll barely notice. The first few days, the hound can be fed substantially less, in fact- 1-1/2 cups twice a day, for example, for the first week (in the above example).

 

For treats, take a hot dog and slice it as thin as a coin. Dry it in the oven on cookie sheets; if you have a gas oven, the pilot light will be plenty. A hot dog works out to 50-100 treats when done correctly- inexpensive, non-fattening, and enjoyable.

 

Good luck!

[Guest vampthing]

Ok, so I've been counting today

 

He's had about 180g of the dry food in his bowl and eaten all but a handful. He's also had one low fat biscuit and one low fat meat strip (in several pieces) - and my husband gave him a plain toast crust.

 

I'd say today has been pretty typical for how much he eats.

 

It's about half what the bag says to feed him.

 

Ah well, maybe he will lose weight if we keep this up, I'll certainly measure what he's getting and if there's no change, he will go back to the vet.

[Guest Ola]

I think just like people, dog metabolisms can differ depending on the individual. So even two dogs of the same weight and breed may need different amounts of food.

 

In North America we measure dry food in by volume using measuring cups (250 mL), so that's why some of this may sound a little foreign. I know in Europe a lot is done by weight, in terms of cooking and baking especially. Half a kilo of dry food sounds like too much for me, are you sure that's right? Does the bag say how many calories there are in a kilo? That might make it easier for us to compare with what our dogs are eating.

[Guest greytpets]

I also have had a prob with my oldest boy getting overweight.

 

Firstly i changed him from a normal adult dog biscuit diet to a light biscuit (kibble) then halfed his normal intake and gave boiled veggies.

 

So gave 1/2 cup of biscs and 1/2 cup of peas and corn (found at the beginning he would eat around anything else) morning + night

 

No treats or scraps apart from a Greenie (bone) at night for his teeth

 

This worked wonders in 2.5 months he went from 38.2kg to 32.5kg! (raced at 30.5kg!) and in the aftermath of the diet hes currently sitting comfortably at 33.5kg

 

 

[greypuppyluv]

I would probably still have his thyroid tested. I've seen quite a few greys who were overweight and it was because their thyroid wasn't at the correct level. Once on Soloxine, these dogs slimmed down. Some dogs don't show other symptoms of a low thyroid, so you can't always tell if a dog has a low thyroid just by looking at them or tracking their activity level. Of course, many vets have different opinions on what the level should be.....just depends on their school of thought on the subject.

[Guest vampthing]

Thought I'd post an update on how we are getting on. We are now measuring his food, he gets two cupfuls a day (this is about 360g in total - I weighed it) and the bag says 400 - 500g (depending which food I've got) but he's on a diet, right?

 

He also gets a strip of dried tripe if I go out, and a biscuit during the day.

 

I thought he wasn't eating this much before, but it seems my husband sometimes fed him before I am up in the morning, and then I see the empty bowl and put more food down!

 

He's started eating his food faster and being less fussy about it so I guess he's feeling a bit hungry.

 

Unfortunately he's started stealing - which he hasn't done since we first had him.

 

Yesterday he ate a tub of fish food, and the wax from a tealight candle (he LOVES candles, just leaves me the tin and the wick...) and this is a problem because they were both out of his normal reach where they've always lived - he must have been up on his back paws and actively stealing. He knows it's wrong and looked VERY guilty when I pulled the waste out of his bed.

 

So I guess that he's eating less than before, anyway!

 

Now to lock up anything that might be tempting...

Edited February 27, 2008 by vampthing

[GeorgeofNE]

Hmmm. I'm an ignorant American and have no idea how much a kilo is in pounds, but it sounds like you're on the right track! Can you possibly hire someone to take him on walks for you? Or make your husband get up early and do it? A 20 minute walk isn't much exercise. I understand you personally cannot handle more, but perhaps you could get a neighbor kid to help you out for a few dollars?

 

It takes a while for a dog to lose weight, so with measuring and additional exercise, I'm SURE you'll see it melt away.

 

Good for you for trying! Excess weight is really not good for dogs--special our skinny legged houndies!

 

Most dogs LOVE carrots--you might try those for snacks.

[Guest rubysdad]

Hmmm. I'm an ignorant American and have no idea how much a kilo is in pounds, but it sounds like you're on the right track! Can you possibly hire someone to take him on walks for you? Or make your husband get up early and do it? A 20 minute walk isn't much exercise. I understand you personally cannot handle more, but perhaps you could get a neighbor kid to help you out for a few dollars?

 

It takes a while for a dog to lose weight, so with measuring and additional exercise, I'm SURE you'll see it melt away.

 

Good for you for trying! Excess weight is really not good for dogs--special our skinny legged houndies!

 

Most dogs LOVE carrots--you might try those for snacks.

We feed Nutro for overweight and less active dogs and measure, measure, measure.

[Guest taylorsmom]

Just to put my two cents in--it is not usually the fat content in the food that is the problem but usually the amount of carbohydrates. Perhaps you can check that on his food and see if you can try a low-carb alternative? I know here in the States we have higher protein, low carb foods like Evo that work well. I know that when I started feeding a raw diet to my little porky girl Taylor, I could not believe the weight she lost!! It was like the doggie version of the Atkins diet! She is also low thyroid so that is a factor we have to control and watch, but in general the no-carb raw diet really helped us!