brindlebaby

Never heard of it! How often do you give it?

The weather was great, normally it's very hot, but I was actually chilly. I don't think I would use the air fresheners. I hope the Keppra gives you some relief. I had planned to try and wean Ava off Keppra because of the price and the inconvenience of having to take it every 8 hours, but now I don't want to stop what seems to be working.

Kari, I’m so sorry to hear about Thunder’s seizures! When Ava was hospitalized for seizures on January 19, 2013, they started her on Keppra (250mg) – she was already on Phenobarbital and Potassium Bromide. They had us go to a 24 hour Walgreens to get the prescription and bring it back to the hospital. The price was around $250.00 per month, but the pharmacist had us open one of those Drug Saving Plans (it costs $20.00 a year) for Ava and it dropped the price to $89.00. If I recall, the emergency room doctor told us that the Keppra gets in her system right away. Since being on the Keppra, Ava went 134 days without a seizure. (previous longest was 87 days). Ava had another seizure last week – the early morning of June 3. She has a neurologist now and he added in 500mg of Levetiracetam (I think this is the generic for Keppra)…. So now she gets 750mg. From the bill it looks like a month of the generic 500mg costs $80.00 a month, so it’s cheaper than a month of the 250mg Keppra. ____________On a side note…. Anyone ever hear of a hotdog causing a seizure in a dog? The day before Ava’s seizure was Rescued Racers picnic. I went late in the day and took Ava. We walked around and then we each had a hotdog. About 5 minutes after eating we went and were looking at the vendor booths. We stopped at the Treats Unleashed table – where we bought two bags of pre-packaged treats. On the table they had bowls of different kinds of treats that you could mix and match. They even had a plate of icing decorated racing greyhound cookies as well as jewelry, stationary, decals, etc. With no warning I saw Ava leap through the air out of the corner of my eye, even tucked her feet up like a Gilley Greyhound where she landed on top of the table in a standing position. I was so stunned, I threw my bags down and picked her up and set her on the ground. I remember the side of her mouth facing me had a lot of drool coming out of it, but it didn’t sink it at the time that she was probably having some kind of seizure activity. I kept apologizing to the poor Treats Unleashed lady, as she was trying to straighten up her table and picking cookies off the ground. L I was still shaking so we left within minutes after that. Ava seemed fine that evening, but had her seizures 14 hours later. I looked online and found that “Nitroso compounds in hotdogs can cause many neurological problems including seizures. To me it’s too coincidental since her episode was within 5 or so minutes after eating. My conclusion is the hotdog caused her seizures – no one at the hospital seems to share my view though. Humph. BIG Hugs to you and Thunder, I’ll keep checking back for updates. I hope the Keppra does the trick! If it’s too expensive, check into the generic. Kim p.s. Having gone through osteo and amputation and now seizures - I think they both SUCK! I'd rather Callie had seizures instead of osteo and glad Ava doesn't have osteo. (Now if the seizures couldn't be controlled and happened VERY often, that's another story) (sorry if this comes out jumbly...I'm trying to type this quickly at work)

Haha, I told my one (no secret, it's Ava!) that same thing today! She gets into EVERYTHING! I think I have everything up and she manages to find something to get into. I don't want to muzzle her in the house, so maybe I need to put her Christmas collar (with the jingle bells) on now. Just this week she now learned how to open the trash can and get into my nightstand drawer. She called her dad today to tell him thanks for the caramel popcorn he left for her. I kept hearing a crunch, crunch and would run into the the kitchen, no Ava. There she is standing in the living room looking at me like I have three heads. Go back to the computer room and hear crunch, crunch again. (repeat this a couple of times) Finally see that her dad left an opened bag of caramel popcorn on top of his computer stand. Ava is very neat, didn't get a speck on the computer or the floor. She quiet too, like a ninja! I hope Mason is alright! It seems these kinds of things always happen on a Sunday night, at least for us.

Do you think I could use Dawn dish soap in a pinch?

Deleted because it was duplicate post - the first one took a long time to post to the thread.

Thanks everyone! Hi Cora, good to know about the Frontline Plus! We had used it last year (before having Ava) and it didn't seem to help. Our vet doesn't carry it anymore - they have Vectra (I think?). I used that on Sam, but was leary to use on Pixie and Callie (greyhounds) because it was new. Do you remember the brand of Oatmeal shampoo that you used?

Hi Chris! Yes, she had been on only Phenobarbital, but since the 10/24 seizures, they've added in Keppra and Potassium Bromide. Thanks for the tip on the puppy shampoo! Ava goes to the vet this Wednesday 11/21 to get her Potassium Bromide levels checked, so I will ask about the diatomatious (sp?) earth as a dust or puppy flea treatment. Hope you're all doing well! xo

Ava has seizures - last episode was 10/24 where she was hospitalized and now I think we are one day past the time between seizure episodes (which had been getting shorter and shorter with each episode). So, *knock on wood!* Today we took Pixie and Sam to "Four Muddy Paws" for baths, but I was leary of taking Ava. She has fleas (and I won't/can't use any flea product on her) so I wanted to bathe her here at home. My question... Is Buddy Wash (Rosemary & Mint) Shampoo and Buddy Rinse (Lavender & Mint) safe to use on a dog with seizures? If not, what can I use?

Thank you Judy, so far, no seizures! Earlier this week she kept coming to me, whining, wanting to go out. She kept circling, attempting to squat, stopping, circling, pacing, racing. She had about 5 or 6 small puddles in the kitchen that afternoon and evening. I called the vet and her doctor had already left so I called her cell, described her symptoms and she called in a presciption for antibiotics to Walgreens and I picked them up around 830pm. She instructed me to give her two that night to make her more comfortable and then after one every 8 hours. By the next evening she was almost 100% better! She is still VERY WHINEY, but from what I'm reading that's from the phenobarbital?? Will that go away when her body adjusts to it?

One more thing I wanted to add. Regarding Ava's seizure she had on September 30th - the day Herman picked her up from the hospital on October 2, one of the receptionists said that Ava had her seizures during the full moon and said there were other dogs that were admitted for seizures as well. I think I heard tonight is a full moon, so I'm going to be nervous sleeping tonight. (although I don't think any of her other seizure episodes came during a full moon) - I'm just a nervous nelly!

I'm sorry to hear about Henry's seizures and hope you get some answers from your vet visit. We're going through seizures with Ava right now, it's very scary!

Judy, I didn't have the suppositories, I had syringes. Ahhh, I'm sure that's why they didn't do anything. (Can they mess up her heart rate any? I thought the vet mentioned something about her heart, so I said that's alright, I don't want it.) I think she had even talked about teaching me how to give phenobarbital by syringe, but maybe I'm dreaming that, because I haven't seen anyone else mention that! I'm hoping Ava's is just the ideopathic epilepsy - she shows no signs of any other sort of brain issues. I can only find one neurologist locally and I don't know much about him or even if he's still in the area - I really don't want to travel to have her see one. I feel really comfortable with the staff at the emergency hospital, especially the doctor who called me on Thursday to give an update. They had a *conference* before she called to discuss the plans for Ava's treatment. They are working closely with our regular vet too, which I like. Late this afternoon I picked up the potassium bromide and will start that in the morning so hoping that works! I would like to get her off the Keppra and just have the potassium bromide and phenobarbital. On a side note..... she has recently (in the last month or so) started eating her own poop and will not stop even when called, you have to get right up on her. I try and remember to muzzle her, but even the muzzle comes back with poop on the outside. She's always looking for food on a good day and I think she's even hungrier on the phenobarbital.

Ava was better yesterday afternoon, just really laying around and kind of subdued. She seemed more like herself last night, stole a half thing of Greek yogurt off the counter and ate it in her crate and got in the litter box. I was relieved to see it! I'm so sorry about Rainey, I can't imagine how hard that was. ________________________________________________ OMG Kari, how awful! I'm petrified to leave Ava alone! When he had the seizure while you were at work, where/what was he doing when you got home and what kind of shape was he in?? Ava's seizures (she's had four different episodes, all have been in the middle of the night). They wake you up right away. They are loud and very violent. I noticed the last *episode*, she urinated during her first seizure, but I don't think she's done that before. It seems after the each seizure she just kind of lays there (less than a minute) and then gets up and just starts walking through the house very fast, as if she is searching for something. The first *episode*, I stupidly let her in the yard not realizing that she could have another one out there. I was out there with her and she went to the back gate, came towards me, backing up and arched her back and then fell into another violent seizure. She was on the stone walk and I was trying to shield her so she wouldn't get hurt. When she comes to she is racing again. It reminds me of those people you see on Cops that are high and have a lot of strength and no fear. Trying to follow everyone's tips, not this past *episode*, but the third one, we have the rectal valium (2 syringes) and did it right away after the first seizure. Herman held her and I ran and got a small bit of vanilla ice cream that she ate. I put an ice pack on her lower back (read somewhere that it can stop seizures). She got up and walked into the kitchen and seemed like she wanted food. I didn't want to give her kibble, so gave her a small bit of canned food that Pixie has to have added to her kibble and she woofed it down. I'm thinking, ok, we got through this. Then she starts doing the searching again and I didn't want to let her in the yard just yet. She went to the back door sniffing, started to recoil backwards and went into another seizure. She was standing and I was trying to have her lay on her side. She ended up having 5 seizures that night, the next one was when I locked her in our bedroom and ran and got the car and her collar/leash and threw some clothes on. When I opened the door she had pooped and peed all over and poop was smeared everywhere. She had another seizure in the car and then the 5th one at the vet, right after her arrival. This last seizure episode on Wednesday morning, we just headed to the hospital after her first seizure. She cried and paced in the car the whole way there and ended up having another seizure (which they called very violent) during examination. No more after that. Ava is left alone very little. I don't know what would happen if we weren't home and she started having seizures. If she doesn't stop, can she die?? I can't imagine her being crated and after coming to, being so stressed and agitated, I imagine she would break through her crate too! I'm at the point where I feel that each time Ava starts having a seizure, we just need to head to the hospital. I don't feel like they will stop if we don't get immediate medical help. It's very scary. Thanks guys for the tip about Costco! I do have a Costco card so I will check out their prices. Offhand, does anyone remember how much the Keppra was?

Ava's seizures are very violent and so loud on a hardwood floor, every clunk on the floor nearly makes my heart stop! Time between seizure episodes have gotten shorter, going from 44 days to 32 days and now 24 days. First episode she had 3 seizures, second episode 4 seizures, next one 5 seizures and the last episode was only 2 seizures, but only because we headed straight to the hospital and after the first seizure. She had the second seizure there, so they were able to start IVs, etc. and stop her from having more.

I know, it's maddening Kari! I've seen Ava turn her head to either side, like she is snapping at imaginary flies or does she just have an itch she can't reach? All four of her big seizure episodes have happened in the middle of the night, so I'm always on edge, paying we won't get woke up by that awful sound.

Quick note from my phone, Ava slept well! I just called home and Ava's sleeping on her bed in our bedroom. Usually she's hanging out on the couch so she's probably really tired, I know I am! Now with a clearer head this morning, I'm thinking her behavior was a seizure activity, with the constant nose up in the air smelling. I remember the day she came home from the hospital after her first seizures back in July, she had episodes with a blank stare, gritted teeth and excessive drooling and when she snapped out of it, she quickly followed me with her head raised and her nose smelling me.

I'm so sorry. Been there with our Callie.

I wonder if maybe because I was 2 hours and 45 minutes late on her next dose?? That's reassuring to hear that it worked for Saint!! Right now our plan for Ava (which is subject to change I guess ) is once she gets on the potassium bromide for a month or more, to gradually wean her off the Keppra. It's pricey, but by joining the Walgreens savings plan I got it down from $249.00 a month to $87.00 - which is better. The main reason I don't want her on it is because it needs to be given 3 times a day and since I work, I have to depend on somebody else to do it (which I don't want to do). I will if it's the only thing that keeps Ava seizure free though! The Potassium Bromide isn't much cheaper at $62.00, but it's once (or is it twice?) a day? KNOCK ON WOOD - Ava seems to have settled down. Oh gosh, that's awful about the falling! Maybe the restlessness/pacing/whining IS post-seizure behavior. When Ava started on the Phenobarbital, she was kind of, just not herself. Not this most recent hospitalization, but the last two times she was hospitalizationed for seizures, they upped her Phenobarbital and I didn't notice a change at all. She was her old self the day she got home. I hope Minnie's doing well now!

Thank you Judy, that's exactly what I wanted to hear! As long as I know it's a normal reaction, we'll get through it. She did get bedtime treats. I'm hoping she'll settle down once we're all in bed.

Update: She's sleeping on her bed! Update again: Must of been a 10 minutes cat nap, now she's whiney and pacing again.

Our Ava started having seizures in July (although she had some in the racing kennel before she retired in November/December 2011 - she's now had four separate seizure incidents which have required hospitalization each time. She just was released this afternoon after having two seizures on Wednesday morning at 4:10am. She had the first seizure at home and when she came to, we headed straight for the hospital (her last seizure episode was 24 days ago and she had 5 within an hour). On the way to the hospital she whined off and on and paced during the whole ride (20-25 minutes), but no seizures. After the tech took her away, the doctor told us she had a violent grand mal during her examination. She's pretty banged up, some brusing and lots of cuts and scratches, so she's sore too. Where we are at right now, they kept her phenobarbital at the same dose (2 tabs twice a day), but added in Keppra at the hospital. (She is now on 250mg every 8 hours). We're also going to start her on Potassium Bromine, but it won't be ready until Saturday afternoon. The first dose of Keppra that I had planned on giving would of been at 11pm, because I wanted to get her on a schedule. I called the hospital to ask when her last dose was and it was 8am, so next dose should of been at 4pm. I went ahead and gave her the Keppra at 645pm. She is acting strange and I'm a little worried. (she was acting strange before I gave the Keppra (which is why I called to ask when she last had it), so I'm wondering if her behavior is because I was 2 hours and 45 minutes late with her next dose or because she just started the medication or ???) She is pacing, a bit of whining and seems to be looking for something. I have let her out three times and she just stands in the yard with her nose in the air, smelling. She is doing the same thing in the house, has her nose up in the air smelling. (((I just now let her out again and she did finally pee!!))) It was very warm in St. Louis today and now the temperature has dropped drastically, it's windy and rainy. I thought maybe she was smelling in the yard (with nose in the air) earlier because a storm was coming. Ava's regular vet is working with the emergency hospital to get Ava's seizures under control and I have her cell number to call her if anything happens - so I do have a call in for her. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has experienced the same behavior after starting Keppra. I just want to help her and she can't talk. Thanks, Kim & Ava

Thank you for responding MaryJane and tbhounds! Ava has not seen our regular vet yet for her seizures and yes she is the one who prescribed the rectal valium at my request. Ava weighs around 73 pounds so it doesn't seem to be enough. Both times of her seizures (July 14 and August 28) we rushed her to Veterinary Specialty Services which has specialists and is open 24 hours. That's where we took our greyhound Callie for her amputation and chemo. We adopted Ava in late February and she went into foster care in December (I think). Since she had seizures in the racing kennel (November 2011?), she had been seizure free until July 14. She was on no medication for seizures until they started on the phenobarbital in July. The first emergency vet we had in July said that they could do a MRI and Spinal Fluid Analysis, but said with her age (3.5 years) he didn't think that was necessary at this point and to try the medication first. The second emergency vet this August gave us a estimate of $2156 - $2619.00 to do the MRI & spinal fluid analysis, if we choose that route, but said we needed to get her phenobarbital levels checked (since she just started in July). They turned out to be low, so they increased her dose. Her discharge instructions were to go to our regular vet to get her phenobarbital levels checked in 3 weeks, of sooner if condition worsened. I will wait until her appointment in 2 weeks and then make a decision. I've searched neurologists in St. Louis and can only find one, but can check with our adoption group and regular vet and see if they have a reference. I have to get Herman on board as right now he is leaning toward what the first doctor said, that the MRI, etc. is probably unnecessary at this point. He wants to go the medication route first and I understand, we just came off a year of having over $10,000.00 in veterinary expenses for Callie. Pixie also has a growing lump on her shoulder that we are going to get checked out in the next week. Ava's regular vet has been getting updates on Ava from the emergency hospital so she has been calling to check on her. She is really easy to talk to and will listen and offer support and guidance if we ask or suggest anything. Thank you both so much for your advice. Kim & Ava Thank you.

Thank you everyone for your all your help, I had printed off all your replies and was keeping them with me! Unfortunately Ava's reprieve from seizures was short lived. She another around 530am this past Tuesday morning (8/28/12) and had gotten the rectal valium for our vet, so I used that. When she came out of the first seizure she seemed kind of calm just laying there, but that quickly turned to the pacing and panting. I offered her water and took her outside where she just kept walking fast as if she were searching for something. While in the yard she had her second seizure. Once she came out of that, I guided her into the house (no small task) and took her to our bedroom and locked her inside. I ran and fixed the car up for the drive (quilt, etc.) and then ran inside to throw some clothes on. I came back in to get Ava and she was half under our bed and appeared as though she was coming out of a third seizure (there was as pee and poop smeared all over the floor). I got her up and she ran to the front room before I could put her collar and leash on and ran head on into our glass storm door. Thank God it didn't break or open! I drove and Herman sat in front and blocked Ava from getting in the front seat. I called the emergency hospital and alerted them we were on our way. I was driving 80mph on the highway, and could see Ava smelling the back window (SUV with all seats down) and I told Herman that I think she's about to have another seizure, which she did (her 4th in less than an hour). At the hospital they rushed her back and took some info. They ran blood tests (I think they were normal, or not different than the last time) and then ran a test to check the levels of the phenobarbital (she was on 1-1/4 tablet twice a day of 64.8mg). They called and said she was on the very low end of a therapeutic dose. No seizures while in the hospital (she was there a day and a half) so she was discharged on Wednesday afternoon (they increased her phenobarbital from 1-1/4 tablet twice a day to 1-1/2 tablet twice a day). So far she is doing well (not a full week yet), but in the last 3 or so days I've noticed her snapping at the air. It's as if she has a itch on her hip bones and just turns her head back on each side in the general direction of her hip and makes air bite motions. I've also noticed when I rub back there, she acts jumpy, like it's sensitive?? Is this some kind of seizure sign? I also am curious, does everyone rush their dog to the vet after/during seizures? Once she gets regulated on her meds, will than continue? I am so nervous and frightened when she is going through the seizures, I don't think I feel comfortable to ride them out at home. We did have another dog with seizures, but her normal routine was to have one and then she was a bit loopy for a time after and then be alright. Ava's seizures are one right after the other (with a short 10 minute or so break in between). I just feel safer to get her to the hospital quickly just in case she doesn't come out of it. I was thinking the valium would stop her from having subsequent seizures, but maybe I misunderstood or we got the wrong dose? (I picked up some more - I have two syringes/directions are to give 1 ml rectally as needed for seizure..... Valium/Diazepam inj. 5mg/ml. Does this dose sound right?) I completely forgot about the vanilla ice cream, would that have stopped the subsequent seizures? (Just went over what you wrote Judy and missed this - "Try and give her something sweet after she seizes. It will bring her blood sugar back to normal because it drops during a seizure and may keep her from going into clusters." CRAP! What do you mean "sweets", like honey or ?? Please let me know if anything sticks out to you that we could/should be doing differently. We want to help Ava any way that we can. Thanks for reading! xo, Kim & Ava My pretty girl at Rescued Racers picnic in June (photo by Cheryl Plunk)

Hi Mary Jane, They did send Ava home with Phenobarbital and we are supposed to go back our regular vet in 10-14 days to get refills and I think more labwork. The doctor at the emergency hospital said given her age he felt pretty certain she didn't have a brain tumor, but mentioned that they could do MRI, etc. to rule that out. He said if it was his dog he would try medication first.