CindyandThunder

I just saw this ... I'm so sorry .....

I'm so sorry Bev. I remember when you brought that sassy puppy home ... seems like it was just yesterday. He's pain free and with his friends who have passed before him now.

I'm so sorry .........

I'll be 29 next month Copper is 6 and Thunder is 11

Judy, I'm so sorry to read this news ... You are in my thoughts ...

I got a sad note today that Kane, the dog I dog-sat last week with renal failure went to the bridge last night. The vet did some evaluation and believes he had an advanced form of cancer that had been undetected ... strangely his kidney values were closer to normal but his heart had become significantly enlarged (from last week) and his body just gave out. I am very thankful that he held on long enough to say goodbye to his family ... He was 11 and will be very much missed.

I'm so sorry Jodee ....

I'm so sorry ....

I am so very sorry ....

Just sent in my annual donation via paypal Now maybe my photo album and PMs will be restored to their original glory?

Bev - what an amazing tribute to an amazing boy. Very moving

My sister's dog swells up like a balloon after any vaccine. Entire body gets puffy adn then the site develops a bump. I will say that the vet at first was leary to say it was a vaccine reaction! As if dogs just get random adema for no reason! So few incidents are reported IMO not because they do not exist but because they are simply not reported. I did not ask the vet if he reported Angel's reaction but with his attitude, I doubt he did. Now ask me if I think annual revaccination causes more than immediate harm and we can talk!

OH NO! Jodee, I'm so sorry to hear this! You all will be in my thoughts

I am so sorry, Denise. I know you did everything you could for this precious boy. Please take peace that he spent his final days in a caring, loving home where he knew he was welcome and part of a family.

I've sent a bit to help out, Jeff. This is such a valuable community and forum. Thank you so much for your time and dedication Cindy

bumping

Man, my Bell and Evans chicken parts are sooo expensive!! Must be because I'm way out here in WI! I tried to find truly organic chickies and would have to pay upward of $4 / lb Is your ground turkey B&E, too?

Becky - I buy my raw meaty bones through a wholesaler (my local co-op) -- 40 lbs of chicken backs for $25. THat lasts about one month with Thunder, who gets ~1.5 pounds per day. In addition, I provide several meals per week of ground beef/ground veggies. Probably another ~$10-15 for ground meat and veggies. The remainder is stuff I'd add whether he was kibbled or BARFed or home cooked. THe overall investment might be more but the long term rewards are worth it. No more dentals for Thunder (3.5 years and no dental) ( Look at his teeth ). Additionally, I personally believe that a home prepared diet is superior and provides more usable nutrients. Can a little one do it? Yes! Just have to have little bones Chicken wings or chicken necks would be good little RMBs for tiny dogs. You might wish to look specifically for a group/board for small dog BARFers (I'm sure there is one out there!).

Sniff sniff ... I was all alone here for the longest time!! I am very glad that other people are researching and deciding to give their dogs a more healthy and natural diet. I cannot stress enough how much research should be done before doing any home prepared diet. I know I sound like a broken record (!) but I very strongly suggest anyone interested in a raw or cooked home prepared diet to read at least ONE (preferably several) of the following texts: The Ultimate Diet by Kymtyty Schultz Give Your Dog a Bone by Ian Billinghurst (he has 3 books -- GYDAB is the best, IMO but all 3 are worth the read. His book on raising puppies is a good information source but may not provide the information one is looking for). Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health ... by Richard Pitcairn and Susan Hubble Pitcairn Holistic Guide to a Healthy Dog by Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown Natural Animal Healing By Martin Goldstein, DVM Also, the following web-sites may be useful: Naturally Grey Dr. Billinghurst's Page Dr. Tom Lonsdale's Raw Meaty Bones Page B.A.R.F. Page (a good resource page) Barf Pictoral Perhaps the most important to read if you're just considering tossing something together: Natural Diet - Don't JUST DO IT! (this site has tons of great info) I hope this helps some!!!!! Cindy BARF since Dec 1999

:lol MMMMMMMMM..... Mmmmooooth! So true though

I'm laughing out loud ... A lot of people do feed venison, beef, etc to the dogs as part of BARF. Poultry may not have been the #1 meal on the plate of the canine 10,000 years ago but they likely did hunt and kill birds and wild turkeys. Maybe we're not too far off -base If I could reliably get rabbit, squirrel etc, I'd feed it in a heartbeat. I feed what I can find locally and supplement with as much variety as I can find. Thunder eats chicken, turkey, beef, lamb and fish -- usually the first two but when I can find it, I feed lamb and fish Not perfect but better than the alternative. Cindy

The first several days, I'd hold a wing by one end and let Thunder chew with the other. They really just chew enough to swallow. Its not rare to have THunder chew 2x and swallow (if its small) For large RMBs (raw meaty bones) like backs, I let him chew to his hearts content on a towel on the floor or outside. Cindy

Why do I feel like the constructive discussion we were having just flew out the window?? First, your statement about Native Americans eating the heart of a newly killed animal is *NOT* what the Native Americans ate on a dialy baisis. It was NOT the bulk of their diet and you've taken it out of context. Many human cultures (including the American culture) eat rare meat on a regular basis. Some people do eat an evolutionary diet -- vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds. Meat, by many, is NOT considered part of the human evolutionary diet. Second, raw bones are NOT brittle -- I can break them with my bare hands! Chicken necks are very flexible and soft. The bones break easily. The raw diet proponents advise NOT to feed leg bones, for example. They are harder than neck bones. However, have you ever seen a dog eat a bone? Thunder happily crunches through (and completely digests) a chicken back or neck (and yes, I've fed legs, too). Third, the "BARF diet" is not a fad. I see KIBBLE as the fad. Kibble has existed for less than 100 years. The Canine for tens of 1000's. What did dogs eat before kibble? What do wolves (who are nearly identical, genetically to our modern house dogs) eat? Our dogs evolved eating raw meat and bones (and stomach contents, random fallen fruits, vegetation, dung of other animals, dead, rotting carcases, etc...) Your warning seems extreme and alarmist. Yes people should talk with their vets but just because its different than what you feed doesn't mean its bad or wrong. I've tried to provide useful information that people can sift through to make their own decision based on their comfort level. I may never change your mind but please provide real information rather than random warnings. Sigh.

Shelia - try posting to Naturally Grey -- its a bulletin board for people looking to go with a home prepared (raw) diet. There are lots and lots of very knowledgable people there who can help you fine tune what you're doing. Lots and lots of experience ........... Cindy

For anyone else reading, contemplating a raw diet, I very strongly urge you to read not only the links provided in this post but the books mentioned as well. The BARF diet done wrong can mean disaster. Done correctly, it can provide a way to provide wonderful, nutritious, healthy, whole foods to your pet. Don't take my word for it, thought --- read read read!!! Here's an excellent link to an article written by a raw feeder of nearly 20 years. Natural Diet -- DON'T Just Do It