greyhead

I couldn't say it better. You'll be in our thoughts and prayers.

Hope you get an answer fast. Something's going on there, IMHO. Do they think the stroke is related to hypothyroidism? Could you tell us more about that?

He has been a diva for a while, yes? But he just started panting and crying? Any change in behavior like that means something, and it can be dangerous to assume it's just psychological. Since he's 8, this wasn't his first 4th. I'd go to the vet and get bloodwork at least. But I'm offering that as support, not in a finger-wagging way.

Wow, that sounds like a really complicated and challenging set of problems. For some reason, just off the wall, I'm thinking of adhesions, where tissue sticks to other tissue. I imagine that could make things jumble and look weird on x-rays. I know it can happen in women's reproductive systems, and I think it can happen in the digestive system too. Has that been discussed? I don't know what ileus is, but I'll look it up just to see. Thanks for writing. Though I hate what you and Dallas have been going through, I like having your company in this mess. She said selfishly! (I'd put an icon here but they're not working right now. Imagine the one with the woman ripping her hair out!)

Thanks for the tip on Cisapride and the citations! He gets one day of Drontol Plus per month. This followed a year and a half of monthly treatment with Advantage Multi, which followed all the usual standard rounds of Panacur (repeatedly) and then Droncit + Strongid (there had been tapeworms in our other grey) every 3 months for a year, after which Spencer again tested positive for hooks. But it had taken 9 months and three vets to diagnose him initially, by which time they were in his lungs, in the soil, and probably elsewhere in his body. So we don't expect to ever be entirely rid of them. But I haven't seen any indication that they are a factor lately. Internist just suggested the Drontal to be sure! He did have stomach issues from the very beginning. After the first negative fecal they said it was probably from treats. After the second negative fecal at the second vet, I was told it was probably emotional problems. The third vet found them because we got lucky & tested at the right time; by then he said he was astonishingly loaded with hooks. Meanwhile we had changed his food multiple times, thinking it might be that, which is why finding novel proteins now for his IBD is a challenge. Point being really, I'm sure his hookworms affected his intestines negatively! But I think the antibiotics after the last dental encouraged the Clostridium SIBO, which also went undiagnosed for months and maybe set him up for the IBD. But I doubt we'll ever know for sure exactly what led to what.

Color is good now. When color was baby-crap or even white at times, tested for EPI was negative. Vet's theory was that bile duct was swelling almost shut intermittently; it's apparently really small to begin with. Color improved with SIBO antibiotics. Haven't tested for gluten intolerance; nobody suggested it before but it sounds like a good idea! He got steamed chicken for months but diarrhea returned badly. Same with beef and buffalo. This was all before resumption of Flagyl and starting budesonide for IBD. Since then he has tolerated venison really well. He refuses carbs entirely but gets a little sweet potato without his knowledge in his Natural Balance venison/s.p. formula. He gets 1.5 cups a day of that and about 1.5 lbs of raw venison, from which I pick out all the fat I can. Tried a really small amount of probiotics (FortiFlora) again this a.m. and he just rejected the food. Ate it fine later w/o the FF. I've experimented, and unless he gets this exact combo of kibble and raw, he reverts to D. Don't suppose you make any biskies for a guy like this?!

I'm sorry, Robin.

I'm sorry, Robin.

Well, shoot, it was so much simpler before! But I see your point and I'm glad you made it.

He's much better, thanks, from what I can tell so far. I'm bringing his food to room temp now, which takes about an hour. Then maybe I'll feed it to him in segments to slow him down! He asked for his late-night snack last night but didn't get it -- my attempt to rest his gut a bit. But I hate doing that, partly because he lost so much muscle and partly because I tend to trust his ability to know what he needs! Liver infection! What were the symptoms and how did you find out? Did she have really light yellow/white poop ever? And what food change did you make? I'm so glad she's doing better! (I'm going to try probiotics again too, but it sounds like Reglan is the crucial piece of this puzzle at the moment.)

He never does well on probiotics, which is really weird I know. But maybe I should try them again on the theory that the setback he has shown when he gets them was just coincidental to taking them and really was due to something else? Yes, I think that was the trigger too. Which is why I wish I hadn't spent so much time believing that soft yellowish poop is not entirely abnormal for a greyhound! And it makes sense that he could have another SIBO flare-up, but it hadn't occurred to me. I'm not used to thinking about motility at all. Thanks for the suggestion! If you don't mind, I'd like to email some of your post to my vet so I can get Reglan. She's out of the office for a week, but I have her home email. I doubt the other vets in her office will want to contradict her diagnosis, nor do I want to embarrass her that way when I don't need to. ETA: Forgot to mention that he has systematized hookworm -- long story -- and has been getting Drontal-Plus once a month for several months. Shall I add that he's hypothyroid too? This is a very tough, smart, noble animal, and I admire and love him beyond measure. It has been a fight to get vets and others from the beginning four years ago to take his symptoms seriously and respond promptly. Good thing I'm a fighter too and an even better thing that GT offers so much to us!

Thanks a ton, Jordan and Greysmom. You put a lot of thought and energy into your replies...while I was slacking and just walking the dogs! Seriously, Spencer does seem to require a mile's walk to get his bowels to move, which is another reason that hypermotility doesn't seem realistic. The vet probably was reacting to his very noisy gut in making her assessment; too bad she didn't have time to actually talk to me. Let me fill in the blanks I left in Spencer's history. He has had just about every test for gut issues except for biopsy, which I refused. His loose bowels began after a dental + antibiotics last July. After two months of soft-serve followed by diarrhea, I tried pumpkin and then sweet potato; he refused both. Tried beet pulp; didn't work. Finally got vet to take it more seriously and tests showed malabsorption localized in small intestine. B12 shots begun and continue weekly even now. Tylosin also didn't help, nor did Flagyl. Saw an internist, who didn't have much to add. Problem continued and I agitated until they tested poop for germs and found a stunning overgrowth of Clostridium in late Feb. So we now add SIBO to the diagnoses and treated with 3 a/b's in succession; after 3 months or so he tested normal for intestinal flora. But the poop quality was still bad, so we did ultrasound and found structural changes in small intestine (thickened walls, dilated lacteals and distended villi) consistent with severe IBD (according to radiologist). I refused surgical biopsy because he'd lost 20 lbs and I didn't want the additional setback from surgery, and refused endoscopy because it can only access the extreme ends of the small intestine and wouldn't give much info. Plus, the treatment would be the pretty similar regardless of the specific inflammatory cell found. So yes, he's on Flagyl and budesonide for the past two months and largely improved. Regained 10 lbs. But the stomach rumbling and distension returned for a couple days last week and now again this week. Vet increased budesonide from 2 mg to 4 mg, but his tongue swelled up hugely, so that only lasted one day. I took it on myself to back him down to 3 mg (it was the weekend, vet not available) for two more days, and he improved. Back to 2 mg and fine for a few days but now this. Which was why I arranged for vet to consult with OSU's Dr. Vilar, cuz she doesn't really know when or if to add in azothioprine or what to do when things don't go well, except to recommend simethecone for gas. So I wish she'd get with it, but her life is complicated, and she'll be out for a week now. And that's the shortest history I can write! Oh, except to say that he can't seem to handle much in the way of carbs/grains, or now poultry or even beef, so he's been on venison for 2-3 months. Started with raw venison and still feed it, 2/3 of his diet. The other 1/3 is Natural Balance venison & sweet potato because it enables his poops to be pick-upable. But more than 1/3 and he gets diarrhea again, as he does with 100% raw. He has been eating fast, Greysmom, and he has sometimes sought cooler spots in the house ever since this problem started way back when. Also noteworthy maybe, he sometimes gets cold paws when the rest of him seems warm, as though there were a circulation problem. His temp is always normal at the vets; we don't take it at home cuz I lost the thermometer and haven't replaced it yet. But this hot/cold thing comes and goes, lasting only a couple hours at a time as far as I've observed. That "Bloat (non-grey)" thread I referenced a while ago mentioned various dogs having "pre-bloat" and also being diagnosed with "motility issues" and being prescribed Reglan, which I thought was an anti-nausea drug at least in humans but still sounds like something that would decrease motility? I'm going to reread your posts now because you said some interesting things I want to consider. And then I'll probably have more questions! Which is great cuz the right questions lead to the right answers. (And even the "wrong" questions are useful in ruling things out!) BTW, Spencer wants another snack, but I'm saying no tonight. I know he wants to eat, but I think it best that he sit tight with the light dinner he had at 7:30. Night-night, to anyone who's still up.

I missed the vet and everyone else was bustling to get clients and their animals wrapped up and out the door. Vet won't be back for an entire week. But I'm calmer. I have a plan, which I'll share in a minute. He doesn't pace, but he doesn't really rest either. He can't seem to sleep, just lays there with his eyes open and blinking, changing positions occasionally, some of which don't look comfortable, only to change positions again very soon. Seems unable to curl up. I know it's not as easy to quantify as if he had the more worrisome list of things you list, but still it's not normal behavior for him. The only way I can characterize it is restlessness while lying down! He'll flinch when first touched, which the vet called hyperaesthesia the other day, but then seems to appreciate been gently stroked. I'm calm now. So here's my plan: no Immodium, smaller food quantity at dinner and no late-night snack, and watch him closely. Call ER if concerned and see if there's anybody present who's at all familiar with greyhounds, bloat without torsion, and/or IBD. If so, go, if only for a second opinion delivered when the distended stomach is clearly observable even without an x-ray! If not, call other ER's and see who's on duty. If really alarmed, go to closest one no matter who's there. Meanwhile, keep researching and consulting, look for Burpdog and Houndznigz and anybody else suggested. And if I don't find that she has contacted OSU by early Friday, and we're still having problems, I'll do it myself. Speaking of which (problems), another thing he does when he seems uncomfortable is get off the beds and lie on the carpeted floor. Most of the beds are very soft, with stuffing that shifts around. It just seems as if he's trying to keep his tummy stable, straight. Is this something anyone is familiar with gassy or bloaty dogs doing? Thanks so much, everyone. It feels like we've been dealing with this, Spencer's intestines, forever. Well, a whole year anyway. The longer it continues, the more nervous I become. Thanks for not getting too bored to help! If bloat is a potential side-effect, I'd steer clear. No kidding! Thanks for that link/info. DEFINITELY not using Imodium at this point! ETA: This thread, "Bloat Non-Grey" from the Food subforum last week has people describing "pre-bloat" and it sounds like what I've been seeing. http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showtopic=233606

Thanks to you and to Dierdre too. As it happens, I left the CD they made of the x-ray on the counter at the vet's. They're open for the next 45 minutes and if I hit it just right, maybe I can catch the vet after her appointments but before she leaves. I'll try. At least in a just world I should be able to tell her everything I just told you guys! I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks so much, I need to hear that. I want my vet to be right, but my instincts are good in general and about Spencer in particular. Of course, when my instinct is working, it's usually very calm, and right now I'm anything but calm! The thing about this vet is that she only works three days a week, and I don't even think she laid eyes on him this afternoon. That's what happens when these folks book themselves up so completely -- there's no time for taking quick peeks, only dealing with clear emergencies.

I'm fit to be tied, I'm afraid. The x-ray didn't show any bloat. They said it showed hyper-motility of the gut and that I should give Immodium, 2.5 pills 3X/day for five days. Didn't get to talk to the vet, just a very non-verbal tech! She said this rumbling tummy is what occurs before diarrhea and that the Immodium will slow things down and he'll absorb better. The thing is, I'm afraid they're wrong, but I don't know what's right. For one thing, he has gained a pound or two since Monday, so it sounds like he's absorbing better than usual! I didn't really want the x-ray now because the swelling had just recommenced and, if he follows his pattern, will reach his max around 11 p.m. Beyond that, he's not having diarrhea these days, he doesn't want to go out unless it's for a walk. After all his discomfort last night, and about 5 simethecone pills, I figured he'd want to go out; but he didn't go out before bed, nor this morning -- not until we took our walk an hour after breakfast, around 10 a.m. And even then he didn't pee like a racehorse, just marking this bush and that very casually! And no diarrhea, just the usual soft-serve after a half-mile of walking. When we saw the internist a few months back, she said she doesn't like things like Immodium that change motility. I realize Spencer's situation may have changed. So I'm real reluctant to give him Immodium when he's not even having diarrhea. So I think I'm going to hold off on it while I research hyper-motility and get opinions from GTers. And there's always the ER vet tonight if the swelling is alarming again. But right now I feel that the vet's office is as lost as I am. (The vet was supposed to contact Dr. Vilar at OSU about his IBD, but she hasn't done it yet.) Sigh. What do you think? ETA: I gave Spencer 250 mg. simethecone an hour before he had his x-ray -- right before I called the vet for guidance. Could it have dispersed the gas by then?

I just called the vet and we're on our way. Thanks a lot!

I thought so too until I read last night that bloat is not the same as torsion, which sounds like what you're talking about. Bloat is what happens before torsion, which may or may not occur. Or am I wrong? I imagine torsion will show on an x-ray, but if it's just the swelling of bloat, what could they see? Gas?

Spencer my IBD dog has returned recently to tummy rumbling and swelling, especially at night. (Of course he looked fine when he saw the vet Monday!) I reported this by phone a while ago and they said I should bring him in for an x-ray to see if it's "really bloat". I've been giving simethecone since yesterday, but all that seems tso help is the passage of time (overnight) and then it starts returning the next day as he starts eating. Right this minute it's a little swollen but, to judge by experience, not as bad as it will be tonight. If I take him in in the next two hours for an x-ray, do you think it will show anything? If so, what?

I'm so very sorry for your loss and the shock of it -- not what you were prepared for at all. But you did well by him and I hope time heals you.

So sorry for the shock and pain this has brought you. Though we caught it earlier, acupuncture has done wonders keeping our large 8.5 y/o boy up and going. Sounds like finding someone to also give depo medrol shots is also necessary, so hang in there and find them. She needs to get up and moving to keep her muscles because that's what will maintain her quality of life and keep her with you as long as possible. (That's the advice we received from the acupuncture/chiropractic vet we see for this.) We're a caring bunch on GT and we're here for you. (And you aren't even expected to follow all our advice without question!) Please keep us updated.

What a lovely girl...and well-loved.

Feel better Soulman! And kisses to your mama! Spencer

I read through Ranchie's thread yesterday and couldn't even speak to it until today! Just wow. Such hard work and dedication on everyone's part. And nobody worked harder than poor Ranchie. He must have known he was loved. I'm so very sorry for your loss!

Yay!