gracegirl

Thanks for the info! We are searching for answers to a mystery pee problem right now and will keep this in mind when we see the ultrasound tech for a view of the tummy later this week. Glad your boy is feeling better and handled the surgery so well.

Thanks for the info! That's one thing that the ultrasound will show, from my understanding of what the tech will be looking for on Wednesday. Kidney stones, bladder stones, tumors, growths, abnormalities, and the dreaded c-word. Thanks for the info...now that we've ruled out bacteria, I'm very hopeful for stones! Never thought I'd be saying that. My Nordstrom's credit card is racking up a lot of points this month.

Just got another call from the vet...they kept the culture going/growing over the weekend and still....nothing. Bummer. I really was hoping for bacteria. We are keeping the ultrasound appt for Wednesday. At that time, if nothing shows on the ultrasound, I'll further my research (and ask the ver to do the same) on diabetes insipidus. Please keep us in your thoughts over the next few days. I've been having some rather umpleasant dreams regardign Fenway. I'm really nervous for the appt on Wednesday.

More continued good thoughts for you and your boy. I hope you get answers soon...i KNOW how hard it is to not know what's going on.

Ultrasound is scheduled for Wednesday morning at 9am ($289). They want me to arrive 15 minutes early to shave him. He's a greyhound. Not sure how much they can get off that little hairless monkey! Susan, I'm using a traveling ultrasound tech too. They offered to let me leave Fen there in a run...but I told them they'd prolly not let us back. Fen would HOWL like a banshee if he was in a cage with no one there to enterain him. Plus, if it's that expensive I want to see it myself! For me it was an option and not mandated. That's lame they charged you for it!

Urine and blood looked fine as far as diabetes is concerned. Will ask Ryan about anything he may have eaten. One of the three dogs ate (or shared) an avacado about a month ago, no one had loose stool so I still don't know who it was. Also, I checked past UA and all was normal on those. Only thing that has changed between then and now is the specific gravity of urine.

Nope. Good idea...I had all but fogotten about that possibility. I'll call the tech back this afternoon and can hopefully discuss. I can get him in tomorrow for that test if necessary. Just curious (only if you are willing to share)...how much was George's ultrasound?

Dangit! No growth on Fenway's urine culture. The antibiotics are not helping, he's been on them since Tuesday. What are my next steps? They are going to keep the culture going/growing over the weekend. The vet will call me on Monday to discuss options.

I'm so very sorry!

I should have the results of the culture today...I've hoped for bacteria with as much passion as I am today. The other ABs that I got on Tuesday are not working yet. In other news, my boyfriend's Airedale has twice now snapped and gone after Fenway this week. Once on Tuesday, once last night. Both times the dogs were in the kitchen/dining room. Both time's Jackson started barking and grwoling in a very mean and angry way. It scared me, and Ryan had to grab Jackson and pull him away before he calmed down. I grabbed Fenny and led him the other direction, we seprated the dogs for a while, and then let them all sleep in the bedroom with us at night with no issues. Can Jackson tell Fen is not well? I was supposed to watch Jackson this weekend while Ryan is away but instead we will be boarding him. I jsut don't trust him.

Not to hijack your thread Lauren, but today, after FIVE WEEKS dry, George had another accident, and honestly? I am ready to totally surrender--and then I saw THIS. Hi Susan. No worries about hijacking. If you can get info to help George, then by all means! Questions for you though Miss Suzan...does George show a bacterial infection on a culture? Did you do x-rays and an ultrasounds to rule out tumors or stones? I was trying to remember what you've done with him so far. I think I'll go back and do a search in the GT archives too. I hope you can find something to help the little buddy!

Def. not incontinence. Grace has spay incontinence and her symptoms were nothing at all like his. And he is def. emptying his bladder every time! Trust me, I didn't think that much pee could come out of a dog. Each accident is one giant puddle which takes at least two bath towels to clean up. Question...the in house (handwritten) urinalysis was taken on 2/19, where it mentions 0-3 WBC/hpf. But then the one from the lab on 2/26 showed no white blood cells. Why? Wouldn't those still be present?

I dunno! Let's see what he grows! Actually, most urine will have bacteria in it from the urethia (sp?) when a free catch is analyzed. It's my understanding that's totally normal, and no cause for alarm. That's why you need to get a sterile sample (with a needle directly from the bladder). Also, if you look at what was processed by the lab (the computer printed version, second image) there is no bacteria. The handwritten notes are from the in-house urinalysis done at the vets office. The sterile sample they took today is the one being clutured. I'm going to know way too much about pee by the time this is all said and done!

Lauren, my vet INSISTED that George must be drinking too much water--not sure how she decided that--so I did measure it for four days in a row. He drinks EXACTLY 2 cups during a day--way less than normal! Can you just put a baby gate between the two of them some how to measure? The vet didn't insist that he was drinking more...I did! He gulps water when he comes inside. He used to just take a few sips, now he'll finish 1/3 of the bowl. I'm going to have to get creative to seprate them. Like, really creative. I'm thinking now. I live in a house built in 1902. I can't attach, bolt or screw anything to the doorframes, they are original to the house. And the doorways are wide, too wide for a standard baby gate. The main floor, where they stay when I am gone, is one hallway and three rooms. You walk into the hallway from the front door, which leads to the kitchen at the back of the house. To the right are the living room and the dining room. (And a doorway between each of them too.) I suppose the best might be able to crate Grace and see how she feels about that! It's been about 4.5 years since she was crated. Wow! I've had Grace for that long! I'm might look for an ex pen on craigslist...then I could let Grace have one couch and Fenny the other. That might work too.

Interesting. Again, this is all new for me..so I sounds like I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't! Are you saying that when your girl had a UTI, her bloodwork and urinalysis would be normal...but that you were able to culture and find something there? Also, how did you determine she had bladder stones? That's one of the possible things we'd be looking for in an ultrasound. I'm curious!

Here is bloodwork and urinalysis from last weekend. The urinalysis from two weeks ago:

Culture is happening now. He's def drinking more water, but both urine samples that have been tested recently are first morning catches and both indicate that he's not concentrating. he did not drink any water before either sample was collected. I'll post images of paperwork in a sec. As of now, the ONLY symptoms are drinking more, peeing more (inside) and not concentrating his urine. We'll see what the culture produces, and we'll see if the ABs help. Thanks for all the info, guys!

No advice, just wanted to send a note to let you know I'm thinking of you. I hope you can find some answers soon.

Question, because I know noting about this stuff....are the BP and kidney issues related? Maybe I'll ask the tech tomorrow if she'll do that when they do the sterile urine draw. Jen, when I talked to the tech today I requested ABs to get started on something. She said she get the script and leave it for me tomorrow. I hope it's clavamox. It sounded like he didn't culture because there was no sign of any trouble (bacteria/inflimation) in the sample I brought in, just the low concentration. I'm sure most dogs with UTI present something in a urinalysis. Maybe the culture will turn up something...but if not and the ABs don't help, then I guess next step is ultrasound. I read up on a kidney diet after that was mentioned, though he shows none of the other indicators for kidney failure in his bloodwork. He's always had trouble with higher protein foods. I've tried him on some grain-free which have had higher protein % and his poo turns to mush. Interesting. Even if there is no connection, still interesting.

Okay...just got off the phone with the vet tech. Here are the stats: Specific gravity of urine: 1.014 and 1.015 for the two different samples BUN: 20 (normal is 6-31) BUN to creatinine: 13 (normal is 4-27) So BUN is okay, indicating no kidney problems. But he's not concentrating at the same specific gravity for two weeks in a row. I'm going to bring him in first thing in the morning tomorrow for a sterile sample and they will culture that. I also talked to the vet tech and told her I wanted to start ABs tomorrow. Then, depending on what the culture produces, we'll continue with the same AB for two weeks or we will change to an AB that will kill the yuckies. After that, if no improvement....I'll mention the DI and also consider the ultrasound. I'll also get all copies of all paperwork tomorrow. Here is some info I found online: Moderately concentrated urine: USG 1.013 to 1.029 (dog) Patients producing samples with USG within this range often have adequate renal renal function, but similar these values can be associated also with partial impairment of renal function due to renal kidney disease, or to some other factor inhibiting the ability to retain water, such as partial deficiency or inhibition of tubular responsiveness to ADH. If dehydration is evident, moderately concentrated urine can be considered to be 'inappropriately dilute', warranting further investigation as indicated below. If hydration is normal and there is no other evidence of renal kidney or other disease, it may be useful to reassess USG at intervals before undertaking additional studies. Any: only animals failing to produce concentrated urine (USG >1.030 for dog, >1.035 for cat) requires further investigation: possible options include testing urine concentrating ability in response to water deprivation and/or ADH administration, determining glomerular filtration rate (GFR), renal ultrasound examination, and renal biopsy.

It has not been mentioned yet, but I will discuss with the vet. Thank you for the advice! Touche Christie! Well played.

Thanks for the response, Susan. You and George came to top of mind when I was trying to figure out what's going on with Fenway. To answer the above points: 1. Specific gravity...I didn't write down the numbers. Boo on me! I have a call into the vet tech to get that info. Twice his first morning sample was "not concentrating". 2. I'm going to see if I can suggest this again. Or maybe instead of suggest I can insist this time. I'll tell the vet I did additional research. I also asked to confirm that his urine was cutltured, and I asked that it be cultured if it was not already. 3. Measuring his water...no clue there with two dogs either, none of whom are confimed and both of whom share bowls. Easy/easier to do when I'm home. Impossible to do when I'm at work. Unless I start to crate Grace again. (Fenway howels like a banshee when he's crated, and is much more anxious...so I can't really crate him. I have not crated Grace in 4 years so I have no idea how she'd do.)

I believe that it was cultured, but I'll call back to ask. Good point!

Both were first morning catches, which is why the poor concentration is of concern. The ultrasound is not as outrageously proced as I thought. It should be under $300...I was initally embracing the idea of spending $500 or more. That said, I think I will do the ultrasound and then if it's still a mystery I think I will push for the ABs. I've heard the same thing from several others here as well. Susan and George come to mind.

Two weeks ago I traveled for business for a week. I don't do that often. Grace stayed with my parents and Fenway stayed with my boyfriend and his Airedale. Almost every day that I was gone, Fenway had an accident in his house. Ryan would come home at lunch to let the dogs out, and then would come home again right after work to let them out and feed them. He'd then typically go to the gym, and would come home to a pee accident. I got home from my business trip and rather than staying at Ryan's house I decided to stay at my own house and try to get Fenway back in his routene, thinking the peeing accidents were behavioral. They continued at my house, even with a mid-day dog walk. (They always have a dog walker that comes every day - pee problems or not.) At this point I wasn't so sure it was behavioral, but given that I had a really hard time housebreaking him as a puppy (he was 4 months when I got him) I still couldn't say with certainty. Problem was, I was only home for a week between my business trip and a week long vacation. Bad timing. I had my brother take a urine sample to the vet while I was on vacation. It came back that he was not concentrating his urine. So at that point the vet recommended that I bring him in upon my return for another urinalysis and bloodwork. Still more accidents while I was gone...this time he stayed at my house with Grace, my roommate and my brother...and still had the dog walker coming at lunch. Second urine sample, he's still not concentrating his urine and I've noticed an increase in his water consumption. And he's still having accidents. Blood and urine sample were sent in on Saturday for full work up. Got results back this morning...and everything looks fine. (I was hoping for some kind of bacterial infection...easily treated with ABs.) There are two things that look fishy...first is that he's not concentrating his urine (we knew that) and second is that his creatinine is at the top of the range at 1.6 (but no change from last time he had bloodwork one year ago). So at this point the vet recommends an abdominal ultrasound, he said mostly at this point it's to rule anything out. There could be something there we see and say "a-ha, that's it" but the vet is not quite sure what could be going on in a dog this young. Fenway is four years old. He also mentioned it could be early kidney compromise. So possibly it could be as simple as putting him on a kidney-friendly diet. I did ask about putting him on a course of ABs, just to see, but the vet said that there was no evidence of infection or inflamation in the urine sample so he would not recommend that. This post is longer than I inteneded, so thank you for reading. I'd love to hear any thoughts, ideas, or experience anyone might have with similar symptoms/issues. I think I'll go ahead and schedule the ultrasound so we can see what's really going on in that belly!