Desi's Feet

[DesiRayMom]

Preview: Desi came to live with me in March 2010. He had foot problems then, has continued having foot problems, and still has

foot problems. His foster mom, Jane, works with OSU a bunch & at the time, Joe was a blood donor, so she took Des in with her

at one time to have them look at his feet...thinking it might be SLO. No, they said, those are allergy feet. She soaked them

regularly & he switched to kangaroo & oat diet.

 

His feet weren't bad when he came to me but even though I continued the kangaroo food, they started flaring up again. I decided to

try the SLO protocol, just in case (tetracycline, chlorpheneramine, fish oil). 3 months, no change. One of the vets at the clinic

where I work thought it was an immune issue of some kind & we decided to try prednisone. His feet did get a little better, but

the side effects were horrendous.

 

Then last fall, I went back to the allergy thinking, & switched his food to Nat.Balance duck/potato, thinking grain free might help.

No, not really. Tried another course of Pred during the winter, that one didn't help at all (although I must admit, I didn't do

a long course, because of the side effects).

 

This spring, I decided to send a blood sample to Heska, just in case it was an environmental allergy, although I knew if it was, it

had to be dust mites, since it is not seasonal. Sure enough, 0's in all categories except dust mites which were over 500. Not horrible,

but I really can't see dust mites doing this to his feet & not anywhere else (belly, groin, armpits).

 

This seems to go in waves. It'll be really bad for a while, then calm down to just kind-of bad...I'll think I'm getting a handle on it

and back it goes to really bad again. Right now it's really bad. I've tried soaking in chlorhex, & epsom salts, too, to no avail.

 

I'm posting pics, hoping against all odds that someone may have seen something like this weirdness & will have some suggestions.

Thank you in advance............Kathy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS: This are rear feet....outside toes. Front feet are very seldom affected...once in a great while, but clear up with minimal care.

He has never lost a toenail, as would happen with SLO. However as you can see by the length of those outside nails, they are pretty

sensitive. He will lay on his back for his nail dremeling; except for those 2 rear outside nails. Strange, huh?

 

edited to add: skin scrape/neg, fungassay/neg, 2 cultures/both came back staph, Cephalexin/Simplicef

antibiotics of choice. Tried both....very little improvement.

Edited October 6, 2011 by DesiRayMom

[macoduck]

Check my post here. Your pictures look similar to Gracie's funky toe. It turned out to be rare but benign tumor.

[tbhounds]

Honestly, it doesn't look like SLO too me either. Just to clarify-- the standard medication protocol is tetracycline (or Doxy), niacinamide and vitamin E (or EFA's) given sometimes with a short course of pred to reduce the intiall inflammation. That being said even if it's not truly SLO it may be another type of an immune mediated disease that the protocol may help.

[joejoesmom]

Aw, poor Desi. I am so sorry Desi continues to have this problem. I have always questioned how in the world he ran 226 races and won so many.

 

Jane (Desi's foster mom who is desperately hoping someone out there has an effective treatment for him)

[GeorgeofNE]

Is it ONLY the outside toes on his hind legs?

 

I maybe TOTALLY wrong, but it would seem to me that might have something to do with how he walks. I can't imagine anything that would only affect two toes, only toes on the rear, and/or only the outer toes--except that they're physically rubbing on something.

 

I only suggest this because George's back feet are a bit "beat up" on the outer edges and it is because of his gait and most likely related to his LS.

[Batmom]

Might not hurt to take a swab of those and have a look under the microscope, and do a culture (fungal and bacterial) as well. Those look to me like infected nailbeds. Possibly fungus, but more like plain old bacterial infection.

 

Hope you can get to the bottom of things.

[JJNg]

edited to add: skin scrape/neg, fungassay/neg, 2 cultures/both came back staph, Cephalexin/Simplicef antibiotics of choice. Tried both....very little improvement.

 

Those look to me like infected nailbeds. Possibly fungus, but more like plain old bacterial infection.

I was thinking it looked like infected nailbeds too, but those usually don't have such a chronic course and difficulty resolving. How long were the courses of antibiotics that were tried? Some of the deeper infections require extended courses - like 4-6 weeks or longer.

 

Does he run on sandy ground? It almost looks like the 'sand burn' my guys get when they race or lure course on sandy ground and the sand gets driven in around the nailbed, causing irritation. But once cleaned out, those usually resolve in a few days.

[Batmom]

edited to add: skin scrape/neg, fungassay/neg, 2 cultures/both came back staph, Cephalexin/Simplicef antibiotics of choice. Tried both....very little improvement.

 

Oops, missed that. Was a sensitivity done when the culture was done? I might be inclined to redo that and tell the lab when sending it in that Cephalexin was not effective.

[Guest june]

One of my friend's dogs is having foot problems: different from what Desi has but her vet is stymied. She finally suggested soaking in a solution of anti bacterial wound scrubbing solution mixed with water and putting a baking soda past on the affected areas after. We don't know yet if it will work as she just started it last night. She is desperate. Good luck with Desi. I hope you find something that helps.

june

(edited because I can't spell)

Edited October 7, 2011 by june

[joejoesmom]

I wanted to add that Desi lived with me for almost 15 months (December 08 to March 2010). He came to me out of our prison training program with at least one toe on each paw looking like this. Over the next 6 months he had skin scrapings, cultures, etc. He was treated during the six months with various antibiotics, antifungals, antibiotic sprays, antifungal sprays, prednisone, etc. He was on cephalexin for a continuous 10 weeks at one point. For the first 4 months he was treated as if it was fungal and bacterial infections. These cleared up some, and the cultures came back negative. But then in a few weeks it would all come back. He went through 3 months of aggressive treatment for SLO. This did not improve things. Then his food was switched from one Science Diet formula to another formula. I then started noticing a few scaly patches on his skin. We switched him to a limited ingredient food, Natural Balance duck -- his skin got better and his toes seemed to get a little better. We tried him on Natural Balance pacific stream and his skin got worse. His toes continued to be better then worse, for no known reason. If I was really good about soaking his feet in ketochlor shampoo a couple times a day, following with gentamycin spray in the evening and an antifungal spray in the morning, putting him in booties when he went outside, and giving him an antibiotic, the feet would clear up, although not quite as good as normal feet.

 

We spent the money and took him into OSU. Dr. Couto didn't think it was SLO. He asked OSU's internal medicine and allergy specialists to look at him and review his case. They concluded that it was likely an allergy. They suggested putting him on a prescription venison and potato, rabbit and potato, or kangaroo and oat diet and also continue the paw washing regimen and bootie wearing when he was outdoors. I switched him to Natural Balance venison and potato (did this because it is considerably less expensive than prescription food and the allergist said that it was a reasonable substitute given that money was a concern for the rescue group). He seemed to do a bit better, but still not clear of problems. I managed to get some free prescription kangaroo and oat through OSU and put Desi on that. It seemed to me that he did better on this. Shortly after this Kathy adopted him. I know that she tried continuing the kangaroo and oat and it didn't seem to help him.

 

His skin reaction to the science diet food, along with OSU's suspicion of a food allergy, led me to believe that this was all due to allergies. However, he continues to have problems. The rescue group never did a follow up with OSU, I don't know if Kathy has.

 

In thinking back, the only other treatment that I could think of that I didn't try (for allergies) was to put him on a long term antihistamine.

 

I don't know if the allergy testing he had done (which showed his only allergy being to dust mites) included food items.

 

Desi is the second sweetest boy ever (next to my Joey). He truly is a special dog. He would have been mine if my pocket book could have afforded another hound. When Kathy met him, it was love at first sight. She is truly a great dog momma and loves this big hunka hound with all of her heart.

 

Jane

Edited October 7, 2011 by joejoesmom

[joejoesmom]

 

I was thinking it looked like infected nailbeds too, but those usually don't have such a chronic course and difficulty resolving. How long were the courses of antibiotics that were tried? Some of the deeper infections require extended courses - like 4-6 weeks or longer.

 

Does he run on sandy ground? It almost looks like the 'sand burn' my guys get when they race or lure course on sandy ground and the sand gets driven in around the nailbed, causing irritation. But once cleaned out, those usually resolve in a few days.

 

Early on when I had him as a foster, a culture was done and came back both fungal and staph. Sensitivity said cephalexin should work. At one point he was on Simplicef for 10 weeks. When he was with me he walked on lawn to do business but his paws hurt enough I couldn't make him do anything else. Kathy walks him on leash. I doubt it has anything to do with sandy ground.

 

Jane

[Batmom]

I would still vote for another culture and sensitivity, but I will add two things:

 

1. My angel Batman's red, itchy (tho not sore) foot was caused by an allergy to fish and fish oil ... the very things you tend to give dogs with skin problems / itchies.

 

2. Our whippet would get some similar sores around his toenails. We went through some diagnostics and meds trying to figure them out and clear them up, to no lasting avail. In the end (don't hit me!), we all figured if they weren't bothering him, we weren't going to let them bother us. Occasionally they'd get kinda weepy and he'd pick at them; we'd soak in dilute Nolvasan or Epsom salts until they cleaned up a bit. The last year or so of his long life, they pretty much disappeared for reasons unknown.

 

 

ETA: The reason I keep suggesting another C&S is that the response you note above suggests not an antibiotic capable of killing the organism or insufficient dose. Not saying that is absolutely the case, but that he got better on the therapy is suggestive.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Batmom

[DesiRayMom]

Is this not the strangest thing?

 

Jane had him on long courses of Cephalexin & Simplicef in 2009.....I had him on the same (2 months of Cephalexin & then 2 months of

Simplicef) in 2010.

 

If it's allergy, it almost HAS to be food.....but what? I know food trials take a long time......but he was on at least 6 months

each of Kangaroo/Oat....then Duck/potato.....currently on Venison/SweetPotato. He also gets only Venison/sw.p. treats.

 

Heska doesn't even recommend food allergy testing. They'll do it, but if you talk to one of the doctors there, (which I have)

they'll tell you it's not all that accurate. There's another lab out east (Spectrum) who also does food allergy testing, but it's pricey. And if Heska says theirs isn't all that accurate, why would Spectrum be any better?

 

Ducky said his feet look similar to Gracie's toe that was amputated & sent in for histo....came back keratoacanthoma.

I researched that, which then led on to subungual (nailbed?) squamous cell carcinoma (gasp) which occurs most commomnly in

large black dogs (double gasp) who have had high exposure to ultraviolet radiation (triple gasp - he raced 4 years in Fla).

 

Someone here also sent a saliva swab to somewhere out on the west coast for testing for food sevsitivity.

 

I'm torn between trying that (I believe it was only $50 or so), or just letting them take the worst toe off & send it out.

Kind of extreme measure for curiosity? But he is very uncomfortable. He takes Meloxicam every day....never refuses his walks,

but I can tell when he's feeling off.

 

And if by some miserable twist of fate it did turn out to be subungual squamous cell carcinoma, I'd think we should know

sooner than later. But then, if it wasn't; I'd feel pretty durned foolish & guilty for putting him through that for something

simple like an allergy.

 

Kathy.....aka worried, perplexed, grasper of straws

[DesiRayMom]

One more thing.......does anyone have any great ways to soak feet?

 

He won't stand in one spot long enough to just stand in a pan. Not even 5 min. He's either got to be walking, or lying down.

 

I've tried using a big plastic bag & holding it on his foot while he's lying down, but it's a PITA and drippy messy.

 

If anyone has any other ways to get it done, I'd be most appreciative.

[Batmom]

If you suspect food allergy, I probably wouldn't vote for allergy testing because I suspect it will give you a lot of useless results, among which the result you want may or may not be hidden. If you suspect environmental allergy, might be somewhat more useful?

 

We discovered our allergy by a happy accident -- changed food for other reasons, foot cleared up quite promptly, attributed it to genesys treatment; added fish oil caps to the diet to improve the coat, itchy foot promptly returned (within 2-3 days); withdrew fish oil caps, foot cleared up (within 2-3 days).

 

6 months is plenty long enough for an elimination diet; 12 weeks is the normal. You might be better off home-prepping a diet -- I like to go all beef with a calcium supplement, but you could pick 1 meat, 1 carb, a 100% calcium supplement (no funky additives), and nothing else.

 

Soaking foot: I get a nice wet washcloth, 2-3 longish plastic bags, and a bit of vetwrap or painter's masking tape (easy to remove). Wrap foot with washcloth, insert into plastic bags, secure around ankle. Towel to catch the drips while you're wrapping.