greyhead Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Spencer the IBD dog has been on 2mg/day budesonide for two months and improving -- until last week when his stomach again became swollen and gurgling, etc. After a week called vet. Last Friday she recommended going to 2mg budesonide twice a day for three days, then call back and report. Started that protocol Saturday and by Saturday night he was panting and had the thickest tongue I've ever seen. It was only a half-inch from the roof of his mouth and I wondered if it was going to get worse. I don't know about him, but I couldn't handle it! So starting Sunday I took him down to 3 mg/day -- 2 in the a.m. and 1 in the p.m. That cleared up the panting/tongue problem and no gurgling. But Monday night the gurgling came back, which suggests that either he needs the 4 mg or he needs an additional drug like azothiaprine or...something. So I've left another message with this info for the vet, who's out until tomorrow but sometimes checks for messages. (I could call or email in emergency, but this isn't that.) So if I give him the extra 2 mg tonight and he starts with that panting/thick tongue thing again, at what point should I be worried? Does this behavior become a danger itself at some threshhold? Am I an idiot for worrying about this? Is it not as bad for him as it looks? I should mention that I only drink alcohol rarely, and socially, thanks to migraines. So having a glass of something isn't an option! Edited July 2, 2009 by greyhead Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I won't give him the extra meds because if his tongue swells too much, he could actually suffocate. That's what happens in an allergic reaction. Everything swells shut. Can't breathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetdogs Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I wouldn't give the higher dose: budesonide side-effects & I'd hope the vet would call you back. Eek - poor Spencer. How about a cup of tea? Quote Deirdre with Conor (Daring Pocobueno), Keeva (Kiowa Mimi Mona), & kittehs Gemma & robthomas. Our beloved angels Faolin & Liath, & kittehs Mona & Caesar. Remembering Bobby, Doc McCoy, & Chip McGrath. "He feeds you, pets you, adores you, collects your poop in a bag. There's only one explanation: you are a hairy little god." Nick Galifinakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hm, maybe a cup of tea and a muscle relaxer! Thanks, okay, I won't give the extra, and I'm apparently not crazy. Good to know! Now if folks would just hold a good thought that we can get him straightened out. He's really hungry, but the vet wants me to feed him less to rest his intestines. He does best on raw food (venison), but he needs kibble to have something otehr than totally runny poops. But he can only have so much kibble (1/3 of the diet) or his poop volume increases to the point that I don't think he's absorbing any of the food. Sigh. He's such a fine boy and doesn't deserve this at all. Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFullHouse Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Sounds like an allergic reaction to me! If he were mine I wouldn't give it to him and maybe give him a dose of Benedryl. Quote Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey, Gizmo, Do Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 How much Benedryl do you give a dog? Never had to do it before. Trouble with getting a compounded drug mailed from a pharmacy is nobody gives you a side-effect sheet! When I checked the internet yesterday, I looked for "canine budesonide," and nothing mentioned tongue swelling. Thanks, Deirdre, for the link to the human info. Sometimes I get too tired to think well. Anybody know if OSU consults on IBD in greyhounds particularly? Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Agree on the Benedryl. My former vet/employer and friend, just IMed me, and said 50 mg, and you can give that every four to six hours if needed. Good Luck! He, too said, it sounds like an allergic reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Off I go for Benedryl then! Thanks VERY much, everyone. Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFullHouse Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Glad you saw this Dee, I had logged off for a few minutes! Anybody know if OSU consults on IBD in greyhounds particularly? I think they consult on almost anything really. Wouldn't hurt to send an email. Edited June 30, 2009 by JillysFullHouse Quote Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey, Gizmo, Do Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Glad you saw this Dee, I had logged off for a few minutes! Anybody know if OSU consults on IBD in greyhounds particularly? I think they consult on almost anything really. Wouldn't hurt to send an email. I was feeding the "angry mob," here! They will basically, eat my legs off, if not fed in time :-)) I can't even IMAGINE, what it is like at your place, Judy. My former vet/boss, etc. and I are still friends, and I can basically always get in touch with him if I need something :-)) I love that man! Over the weekend, Curfew at a folded up tube of CET dog toothpaste, and of COURSE, it was aluminum! I gave him a hot dog roll to "cushion it," and Dr. B, said, he should be okay ... he is :-))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zoolaine Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 awwww poor Spencer. The swollen tongue would freak me out, I'd be very concerned about him not being able to breathe. Hope he is feeling better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 OSU does consult on ANYTHING! I even emailed them about what sedation to use to cut Goldie's nails... she ATTACKS when we try! It is awful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetdogs Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Trouble with getting a compounded drug mailed from a pharmacy is nobody gives you a side-effect sheet! That's pretty scary, especially if it's compounded just because of the dosage size (rather than multiple drugs). I googled "budesonide, tongue" . Didn't think I'd get anything so I was surprised at what came up. Figures Spencer would get one of the "rare but serious". Also interesting that a drug used to treat asthma can cause anaphylactic shock. And yes, I believe OSU consults on everything greyhound. Hopefully someday they'll put all the info they've gathered together & figure these beasts out. Quote Deirdre with Conor (Daring Pocobueno), Keeva (Kiowa Mimi Mona), & kittehs Gemma & robthomas. Our beloved angels Faolin & Liath, & kittehs Mona & Caesar. Remembering Bobby, Doc McCoy, & Chip McGrath. "He feeds you, pets you, adores you, collects your poop in a bag. There's only one explanation: you are a hairy little god." Nick Galifinakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Okay, we're good. The vet just called back and we formed a strategy for now: 3 mg budesonide, add beet pulp to raw food, reduce kibble, give Gas-X, and call OSU for consult. She was nervous about the budesonide and wanted to dial it back to 2 mg, but I said I'd like to stay at 3 for now since he doesn't have the swollen tongue on that dose and I can and do watch him closely. He really is doing better on the 3 mg than he did on the 2; if the budesonide alone doesn't work, we have to add in azothiaprine, and neither of us is in love with the idea of a second immunosuppressant. She said the rumbling intestines may be bedeviled by gas, and it's worth a shot to see if the Gas-X helps that. (I had mentioned how distended his belly gets when he has the rumbles.) A huge thank-you to all of you that have helped! (I PM'd someone who was signed in about the thick tongue Saturday night and didn't get an answer, so I thought it was just something that went with the panting and nothing to worry about. Boy was I wrong!!) Please hold good thoughts for Spencer that we'll come up with a plan that will improve things for him. Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Yikes---I'm just seeing this now--how is he today?? I never gave my boy more than 3mgs a day--remember Budesonide is WAY more potent than pred. He just might need a round of Metronidazole--how are his stools today?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) Yikes---I'm just seeing this now--how is he today?? I never gave my boy more than 3mgs a day--remember Budesonide is WAY more potent than pred. He just might need a round of Metronidazole--how are his stools today?? I told my vet I haven't seen anybody report giving more than 3 mgs of budesonide to a greyhound. He's already on metronidazole, 1000 mg/day. The thick tongue went away within a few hours of his second dose Sat night and hasn't returned since I didn't continue giving him 4 mg. So he's okay today and still has a pretty good attitude. The tummy rumbling seems to be progressively decreasing on the 3 mg dose he has been getting starting Sunday. He has lost a couple pounds, I'd say though, since this "flare" began a week ago. I haven't seen him have a BM today; our morning walk was too short for him to get that done, thanks to his brother's lameness, and he hasn't wanted to go out to the yard. But we're about to take our evening walk shortly, so we'll see. In general his poops are soft but decent as long as he has some kibble; but if he has too much kibble, he develops D and starts rumbling. I guess the vet and I agreed today to keep him on 3 mg but the divided dose I improvised: 2 mg morning, 1 mg nighttime. That's cuz I only have 2 mg-capsules, and fearful of what happened on 4 mg, I didn't want to give all 3 mgs at once to start with. But looking through internet lit tonight, it appears that this drug is intended generally to be given all in one daily dose. Is that your understanding? I have no problem continuing the divided dose, but I want him to get the best effect from the 3 mg, whichever way that will happen. I didn't know budesonide is so much more potent than pred; I just thought the side-effect profile was more benign. Thanks so much for asking! Hope you and Stan are doing well! Edited July 1, 2009 by greyhead Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 Just a quick update. Dr. Vilar from OSU has said he'd be pleased to consult with Spencer's vet! Probably won't happen until after the holiday but at least it's gonna happen! Took Spencer back to 2 mg/day budesonide + metronidazole, and he's doing fine. So it's not urgent. But not having an internist to work with, it'll be great to be hooked up to guidance from OSU when we need it! Thanks for the encouragement to make the contact. I had this irrational feeling that if Spencer didn't have cancer, I shouldn't bother OSU. I know was dumb and I'm over it! Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macoduck Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Wonderful news Mary! Quote Freshy (Droopys Fresh), NoAh the podenco orito, Howie the portuguese podengo maneto Angels: Rita the podenco maneta, Lila, the podenco, Mr X aka Denali, Lulu the podenco andaluz, Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Charlie the iggy, Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinM Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Don't know if Benedyl can be given to IBD dogs. Very limited on the things we can give. I'd ask just to be on the safe side. Quote ROBIN ~ Mom to: Beau Think It Aint, Chloe JC Allthewayhome, Teddy ICU Drunk Sailor, Elsie N Fracine , Ollie RG's Travertine, Ponch A's Jupiter~ Yoshi, Zoobie & Belle, the kitties. Waiting at the bridge Angel Polli Bohemian Ocean , Rocky, Blue,Sasha & Zoobie & Bobbi Greyhound Angels Adoption (GAA) The Lexus Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Great news! GO ... OSU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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