krissn333 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Clarice has been doing really well. She met my parents' dog Sunny last weekend and did really well. We went over there Thursday night for dinner and we had an incident. I have been keeping her muzzled when we go over there. Mom has a huge basket of toys and Clarice dragged a bunch of them out last weekend and we had ZERO issues. While she is playing with the toys she does not care about anything else, she's full of pure joy. It doesn't matter if one of the other dogs walks by - she doesn't care...she's busy. Thursday evening she'd strewn a bunch of toys all over the living room (hilarious to watch her do this while wearing a muzzle) and then plopped down to rest, toyless. There was a toy in the middle of the floor and Sunny was laying near it. He stood up and walked near the toy (he was not even moving to pick it up, he was just walking out of the living room) and Clarice jumped up and snapped at him. Thank goodness she was muzzled. Sunny, other than the fact that he is a big softie so his feelings were hurt, was fine. Ozzie came into the room to see what the fuss was and she snapped at him too. We immediately removed all of the toys. I can play with her, I can take things from her. I did a search for "aggression" in the forum and it seems like everything that comes up has to do with the dog being possessive of items when it comes to humans. She is FINE with humans, it's other dogs. Ozzie LOVES his toys but I have to keep them put away unless I am leaving for work for the day and Clarice will be in her crate, so he can play with his toys. Honestly it just wasn't something I thought about when we went to Mom's, and since she was fine playing with them last weekend, I didn't worry on Thursday night, but, clearly she has an issue. The other thing is, when there are no ACTUAL toys available, she goes around taking anything she can get her mouth on and will drag to her bed and THAT becomes a toy to her, so she will guard it. Pillows, blankets, rugs, coats, hats, gloves...they all become toys. I know that we need to employ some sort of positive training, and not to scold her when she acts this way, but, I'm just at a loss as to HOW to do this, because as long as I am nearby she behaves herself. If we do something like put a toy in the middle of the floor and have Ozzie walk past it and I feed her treats while he is walking past it, I don't see that helping, because I'm sitting there with her, feeding her treats. If I'm sitting with her feeding her treats she doesn't care about anything else. I can't always be sitting there feeding her treats. It just seems a very sad idea that we can never have toys out unless they have separate play sessions that are planned... I'm frustrated and just trying to figure out how to fix this. Surely someday we will be able to live normal lives? If I can't watch her she has to be crated, so, if I'm going to be in the kitchen cooking, or doing dishes, she has to be crated. I hate that she has to spend so much time in her crate after being in there while I'm at work. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambuca Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 When this happens here, the toy disappears immediately. They learn that if I'm grumpy about it, I don't get it either. Bu can resource guard around other dogs, but not me. Thankfully he growls, then runs and grabs the toy and runs away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Do the feeding exercise anyways. She'll learn to associate good things happening whether you're there or not. And see if you can scope out differences among toys. Here there are toys I leave out all the time, and toys that are for supervised play only. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3greytjoys Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 We keep all toys out of sight (unless supervised) whenever working with fosters or our own new hounds. Newly retired hounds usually go crazy over the exciting new concept of "toys" after track life. Now, all our hounds are fine playing together, but we keep toys on the opposite side of a baby-gate when we're gone just to be safe. Also, we don't want them chewing and ingesting them. I consider it a little "insurance" to keep food and toys separate for hounds who are not interested in sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 And I HAVE been keeping toys out of the picture... but I want to know how to work them in so that poor Ozzie's enjoyable things dont have to go away permanently. We need to work toward toys being an okay thing to be out. Jey, none of our toys are more special than others to her. If she can pick it up and take it to her bed, it is valuable. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grey_dreams Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Ozzie LOVES his toys but I have to keep them put away unless I am leaving for work for the day and Clarice will be in her crate, so he can play with his toys. Can she see him playing with toys while she is in the crate? If so, that could add to her frustration, which could be expressed later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 My house is tiny. Yes she would see him playing. She has toys in her crate to play with. There's no way around her seeing him play other than to not allow him to play, which means he starts picking up things that are not toys to play with. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3greytjoys Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) I didn't address your "how" question since I agreed with Batmom encouraging treat exercises. It will take repeated practice sessions over time, but well worth your effort. If Clarice isn't highly food motivated, plan sessions when she's hungry. Either use her kibble meal for training, or reduce her kibble intake and offer high value treats on training days. Here is Dr. Sophia Yin's link (with video) for counter-conditioning dog to dog resource guarding (whether food or toys, it's the same training technique): http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/a-scientific-approach-can-help-you-solve-many-types-of-possession-aggressio In lieu of Dr. Yin's remote treat dispenser (in video), a second person would be helpful, otherwise just toss treats to Clarice from afar. Treat timing is important with these exercises. Here is another example by Patricia McConnell: https://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/tag/guarding-in-dogs Could be helpful to take Clarice through an obedience training course. Otherwise, home training "come", "down", "leave it", "drop it", etc. "Learn to earn" exercises could help her too. Good luck. Edited January 27, 2014 by 3greytjoys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 We are going to basic obedience at the end of February (it is when their next session starts). Thanks for the links, the Sophia Yin was helpful, I still need to read the Patricia McConnell one. I'll need to employ my mother as a helper for this. And...she is food motivated so that should help. Hot dogs are her favorite. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 My favorite article on dog-dog resource guarding: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/14_10/features/Resource-Guarding-Behavior-Modification_20368-1.html Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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