Sitting And Canine Good Citizen Test

[jetcitywoman]

Hi All, this is a question for anyone here who managed to pass the CGC with a dog who won't/can't sit on command. I've heard it's possible, but I'm wondering how you worked around the test requirement. Was the test located somewhere with a soft surface so the dog could sphinx?

 

I enrolled my gang in a CGC class with a test at the end. Since I've taken them to meet and greets for several years and to pet fairs and even to patio-seating lunches where they are consistently angels, I have no fear about the test. Except for possibly the sitting part because that's one thing that Ajax can't seem to figure out. We've been able to teach him to push up into a sit from a sphinx, but I worry that if the test is on concrete or something similarly hard, he'll refuse to even sphinx. Thoughts?

[Guest Rhea]

I've actually heard that greyhounds are often excused from sitting requirements in such tests, they are allowed to do a down/stay instead.

[a_daerr]

In both Henry and Truman's tests, a down-stay was not accepted. They had to sit- even greyhounds. During the "meet and greet" portion where you stop and shake another dog-owner's hand, the evaluator asked me to sit Truman on my side during the introduction. I actually remember during Henry's test, he didn't hold his sit for long enough (kind of slid into a down), and even that wasn't acceptable. The evaluator had me bring him back up into a sit and hold it.

 

I started by working them on their beds and luring up from a down. If he's having trouble, you'll need a really high value treat. Bring out the big guns- steak, liverwurst, something with a strong scent. It also helps if you sort of back them into a corner or against a wall so they don't have room to stand. Lure the treat up and backwards, right at nose level. When he gets into the sit, however brief it is, mark it with your cue ("good sit!") and keep practicing. Once he's got that, phase out his bed and practice on other surfaces. Then once he's sitting all the time, most likely he'll figure out how to go directly into a sit from a standing position. If you've tried all that and he really doesn't seem to get the movement, you can sort of cup his body into a sit by firmly pushing back his chest while using your other arm to bend his knees. Obviously, you'd only want to do this if you've had this dog for awhile and he trusts you.

 

We're practicing for the TDI test, and they now have to do sit-stays for one minute. No exclusions for greyhounds. You can imagine how hard THAT is.

[FountainLady]

It can be done .... even Gus sits like a champ! Practice, practice, practice.

Edited August 25, 2013 by FountainLady

[Batmom]

CGC required the greyhounds to sit but not to sit-stay. They just had to demonstrate that they could sit on command. Stay for recall could be a down-stay, and for greeting a stranger, dog could stand quietly. Our evaluators really wanted a sit-stay but the rules allow a down-stay for the recall.

 

TDI did not require a greyhound to sit -- says so right on the new-rules brochure. If your evaluator required it, you should report that to the organization.

[jetcitywoman]

Let me clarify: I guess what I'm asking more is whether the test is typically done somewhere with a padded surface or outdoors on pavement. Ajax can push up into a sit starting with a sphinx position and I don't think stay will be a problem. Just that if we're on pavement, he's not going to down/sphinx either. Hard on the elbows, you know? Or am I too "soft" to allow them to balk at downing on pavement?

[Batmom]

All our tests have been indoors, with rubber-matted floors. YMMV -- doesn't hurt to ask when you see a test you might like to sign up for . He might surprise you, tho -- if he's in training-routine mode, he might sphinx anywhere.

[a_daerr]

Ours was on linoleum. Slippery, but not impossible.

 

ETA, Batmom, look at test #4 (sit stay)

http://www.tdi-dog.org/images/testingbrochure.pdf

Edited August 25, 2013 by a_daerr

[Batmom]

Look at the front of the brochure -- Additional Rules #4, greyhounds not required to sit. IIRC the evaluator wanted a down-stay rather than a stand-stay.

[jetcitywoman]

Great, thanks everybody! The class teacher (who I think will also be our evaluator) tried briefly to shape him into a sit after our first class. I pulled her aside after class to see if she could help me with that. She ended up saying that maybe he just can't sit, so I shouldn't worry. So if she is our evaluator, it sounds like she'll just let him sphinx or stand instead.

 

We are still trying to get him to simply put his butt down instead of doing push ups, because ... why not? He is physically capable of the posture, I think he just doesn't understand what we're asking for. Yesterday I got him to get into a sit passing through the sphinx position so quickly his elbows barely touched the floor. So maybe I can shape him into it with a backdoor sort of method. LOL

 

When he does sit naturally, like to scratch, he's a sit-on-one-hip kinda boy. That's a winner in my book. Plus he's cute that way - with his size he looks a bit like Eyore. LOL

[Batmom]

If you can get him into the position (luring him up from a sphinx or whatever), one sneaky way to cement it as a position and get him to stay there for more than a millisecond is to teach him to shake hands.

[jetcitywoman]

Oh, that's a great idea for Capri, too! She's a popper-upper. In fact, because she's so smart and her training is way ahead of Ajax's, if I don't treat her immediately and it's something high value, she'll flip with greyhound speed through all of her repertoir: sit,down,sit,rearup,sit... Once she even threw a rollover in there and I swore I heard calliope music! LOL

 

Anyway, how do you train shake hands with a dog that doesn't normally lift his/her paws up?

[Batmom]

Give your cue (ours is "How ARE ya?" + my right hand held out) and pick up their paw, little shake, let go, "Good dog" + treat. I've had a few slow learners on that one but most get it pretty quick.

[Wonder]

Passion didn't sit and they still passed her

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

Give your cue (ours is "How ARE ya?" + my right hand held out) and pick up their paw, little shake, let go, "Good dog" + treat. I've had a few slow learners on that one but most get it pretty quick.

^^ this. This worked wonderfully for our grey. I also taught him to use the other paw to shake as well, ya know, in case he meets a lefty or something.

[jetcitywoman]

LOL, you guys rock. Thanks!

[Guest jetska]

No, greyhounds still have to sit for the CGC here. I think it's fair enough. Some greys are harder to train than others but it's possible. The whole point of the CGC is to set a relatively high standard. Sitting for a grey is no harder to learn than not jumping up for a crazy staffy IMO

[Guest bayhorse]

OK i just went through this, about 10 weeks ago i came here to vent !!! The first 3 weeks (this includes practice at home) i really thought it would be impossible. And then * poof * ? Not sure why ? suddenly Rocky can sit up to a min. maybe more before he starts looking around and thinking.......

 

We just passed our test on Thursday ! Also in our test they never did need the dog to sit THAT Long, but it was good ground work.

 

The whole floor was padded, I'm sure that helped, but just keep at it, and good luck. GOOD TREATS i think helps a lot too.

[jetcitywoman]

We've been working on getting Ajax to back directly into a sit without doing a pushup, and he's almost got it. It was just as tricky for me to figure out how to get him to do what I wanted as it was for him to... well, do what I wanted. But I seem to have stumbled on a method. He's got very low tolerance for frustration, so if he can't figure out what I want in about two seconds, he will start avoiding. So it takes microscopic baby steps with him. I started by getting him to sphinx-sit like he normally does and then gradually using my body to close up the space he's allowed. Basically crowding him so that he can't fully sphinx. That worked because he started to do it without putting his elbows fully down. Once that was somewhat consistent, I put a traffic lead on him and ooooohhhh sooooooo geenntttlyyyy with microscopic decreases in leash length started to use that to prevent him from going into a sphinx. Simply holding his head up with a short leash while asking him to sit sent him into a full on Woody Allen neurotic freakout "sit? okay. wait I can't. argh you want me to sit but you wont let me argh argh argh". I mention this as an example for new greyhound owners who have trouble teaching sit. With some dogs it just takes massive patience and the teensiest of progress.

 

I also started to teach Capri shake hands. Batmom, you said that would be a good way to get her to stay in a sit? LOL Probably eventually, but right now when I pick up her paw, her butt pops off the floor so fast it makes your head spin. Unlike Jaxxy, though, she's a smart cookie with patience and high frustration tolerance and it's already starting to gel in her mind what I'm asking. She started to hold one paw up when she sits... not quite what I wanted, but a reasonable deduction. I need to get her to not fixate on my hands because they give her treats, and also teach her that just because I pick up her paw it doesn't mean she did something wrong. We'll work more and she may master it by later today, but right now she does this: sit, stare at my hand as it reaches for her paw, stand up when I touch her paw, wondering what I'm going to do with it.

Edited September 1, 2013 by jetcitywoman