Guest GreytBengalMom Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 We've had Eddie for nearly 3 months now, and he has had no accidents in the house. Until this morning when I happened to go in our guest bedroom and see he's peed on the carpet by the bed twice (once was very recent) and in a corner of the room. We used a crate in the beginning, but began transitioning him out of the crate as he gained our trust. The past 3 weeks he has not been in his crate at all, and the funny thing is that I was planning on packing it up today. He is alone anywhere from 2-8 hours a day, but he is on a potty schedule that I know he is accustomed to. My husband and I have the flexibility to work alternating shifts, and I typically work from home at least 2 days a week. So, it's very rare for him to be alone 8 hours (it's happened twice in the last 3 weeks). He gets 40 minute walks, has a big yard to run around in, and is taken to the dog park 1-3 times week. This has all definitely happened in the last week. I know this because we had guests staying in that room last Sunday, and it was a pee-free zone at that time. The one spot was definitely fresh and from this morning,and I know you have to catch them in the act, but obviously that wasn't possible. So I brought Eddie back upstairs (boy, did he ever look like he was walking the green mile), brought him to the bedroom and showed him the fresh pee spot. I gave him a stern, "bad dog" (two words he has never heard together), and he moped off into our room where my husband was still asleep. An hour later, he's still being Mr. Mopey and even my husband asked what was going on with him. He was pretty shocked when I told him our perfect, accident-free pup had been having a pee party in our guestroom unbeknownst to us. Eddie is acting super shameful, so I have a good feeling he knows that peeing in the house is a no-no. I have a feeling he knew all along, which is why he hasn't peed in a main area of the house, but tried to be a top secret pee-er in a room we rarely go in. Now, I've had dogs my whole life. I know dogs mark and have accidents. I guess I'm just bummed because he really did gain our trust, and now we have to take some steps backwards. He has not peed anywhere else, and like I said this all just happened in the last week. Do I go back to crating? Do I simply shut the guest bedroom door to prevent him from having access? Do I confine him to one room when we go out? I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of the latter since the main room he's in is our family room with hardwood floors. I would rather he pee on the tile/carpet in another room if he's gonna do it... I'm off to buy a carpet cleaner now, but I'd appreciate suggestions on what to do with my little marker. If you have carpet cleaner suggestions, those are welcomed, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambuca Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Hes moping because you disciplined him and he has no idea why. He picked that spot because he doesn't hang out there and prefers not to pee where he hangs out. I'd keep the door to that room closed. You can try crating him again, but it could also be a medical issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GreytBengalMom Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) Thanks for bringing up the medical issue idea. I very highly doubt it's a medical issue as he's not having trouble peeing outside, nor have a noticed an issue at any point in time. I'll keep an eye on it. I understand that I should have disciplined him in the action, but like I said - it wasn't an option. Edited to add - there are lots of rooms he doesn't hang out in, so I'm wondering if I prevent access to one room then he'll begin going in another to pee. I may just have to go back to crating. Edited March 30, 2013 by GreytBengalMom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philospher77 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 And if it wasn't an option to discipline in the action, then you don't discipline him for it, period. Otherwise, all you do is confuse your dog, as he tries to figure out what got him in trouble. Was it coming to you? Acting happy when he saw you? Being downstairs? The poor dog has NO IDEA that you are upset because he peed in that room, so trying to discipline him for it is useless. I'd have the vet check for a UTI. The fact that he is going outside doesn't rule out that he has a sudden need to pee from an infection, and if that happens when you aren't at home.... If that's clean, then I would close off that room, for sure, and possibly baby-gate him into a smaller area when you are out, to make sure his denning instinct kicks in. Quote My blog about helping Katie learn to be a more normal dog: http://katies-journey-philospher77.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 You mention you had guests stay in that room last Sunday and the peeing happened after that. I bet it had something to do with that. Clean it and keep the door closed. Quote Lisa with Finnegan (Nina's Fire Fly) and Sage (Gil's Selma). Always missing Roscoewww.popdogdesigns.net pop art prints, custom portraits and collars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GreytBengalMom Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) And if it wasn't an option to discipline in the action, then you don't discipline him for it, period. Otherwise, all you do is confuse your dog, as he tries to figure out what got him in trouble. Was it coming to you? Acting happy when he saw you? Being downstairs? The poor dog has NO IDEA that you are upset because he peed in that room, so trying to discipline him for it is useless. I'd have the vet check for a UTI. The fact that he is going outside doesn't rule out that he has a sudden need to pee from an infection, and if that happens when you aren't at home.... If that's clean, then I would close off that room, for sure, and possibly baby-gate him into a smaller area when you are out, to make sure his denning instinct kicks in. I appreciate your thoughts, but I have to disagree with you. When I said that he acted as though he walked the green mile, I meant that he knew he had done something wrong. He wasn't happy to see me, or wagging his tail. Perhaps I was unclear when I stated that. So, I do believe he knew he had done something wrong. The spot that I showed him wasn't one of the dried up ones from days ago, it was the one that was still dripping with his urine. Going forward, I will be sure to try to catch him in the act. I may have made a mistake, and I appreciate you pointing that out to me. I don't think that bold font and caps were necessary. So, if anyone has suggestions on how to handle the marking going forward - I'd appreciate that. Thanks. You mention you had guests stay in that room last Sunday and the peeing happened after that. I bet it had something to do with that. Clean it and keep the door closed. Great point. Thank you! Edited March 30, 2013 by GreytBengalMom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeofNE Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Your belief that he "acted guilty" and he'd "done something wrong" are very outdated beliefs. I get it--I was raised the do the same thing--take the dog to the scene of the crime and tell him he's a bad dog. It's not like you did anything HORRIBLE--but trust me when I say that I and many others have learned that what you did will do nothing except make the dog wary of YOU. Urine isn't a bad thing to a dog. Therefore it isn't "something bad" to pee in a guest bedroom. The words "bad dog" mean nothing. It was your bearing, your tone of voice, your facial expressions. You acted different, so he acted different. It's as simple as that. Now, get the area clean as can be, and don't let him in there any more. Keep all doors closed to rooms he doesn't need to be in, and when you can't keep your eye on him, perhaps baby gate him into a room rather than let him have the whole house quite yet. Quote Susan, Hamish, Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GreytBengalMom Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) Your belief that he "acted guilty" and he'd "done something wrong" are very outdated beliefs. I get it--I was raised the do the same thing--take the dog to the scene of the crime and tell him he's a bad dog. It's not like you did anything HORRIBLE--but trust me when I say that I and many others have learned that what you did will do nothing except make the dog wary of YOU.Great points, and in a really respectful tone unlike the previous poster. Really appreciate it, and like I said, I'll be sure to catch him in the act going forward. I'm not saying I am perfect, or that I am right. And I certainly wouldn't want to come across as disrespectful to anyone here when I am asking for help on the matter. Eddie has fully recovered from the "bad dog". We went for our walk, had some treats, and life is back to normal. I will be sure to discpline him only in the act going forward. As you make perfect sense in your post, and the last thing I want to do is have him be fearful or wary of me. You don't think I need to resort to the crate again, do you? Wondering if I need start back at "zero" and have him gain trust all over again. Edited March 30, 2013 by GreytBengalMom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OPointyDog Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 The information from my adoption group includes a discussion of idea that sometimes there are behavior changes at 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months. The idea is that at 3 months in the home, the dog is feeling more comfortable and often will have behavioral "slippage" as they kind of test the waters and start to feel more confident. So a dog not allowed on the furniture might try to get on the couch, or a previously housebroken dog might end up with an "accident" or two. I think you just have to be firm about the rules. My analogy for this situation is when I used to babysit the neighbor's 3-year-old. As soon as her parents left, she tried everything she knew she was not allowed to do, just to test and see if I would stop her. I tend to agree that current research shows that with dogs, positive reinforcement of good behavior goes a lot further than punishment. It's very different from how most of us learned to train dogs in the past. Make a fuss and give a treat when he does his business outside. If you punish him inside, he's likely to just be more likely to pee someplace you can't see when you're not looking (which it sounds like he's already doing?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GreytBengalMom Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 The information from my adoption group includes a discussion of idea that sometimes there are behavior changes at 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months. The idea is that at 3 months in the home, the dog is feeling more comfortable and often will have behavioral "slippage" as they kind of test the waters and start to feel more confident. So a dog not allowed on the furniture might try to get on the couch, or a previously housebroken dog might end up with an "accident" or two. I think you just have to be firm about the rules. My analogy for this situation is when I used to babysit the neighbor's 3-year-old. As soon as her parents left, she tried everything she knew she was not allowed to do, just to test and see if I would stop her. I tend to agree that current research shows that with dogs, positive reinforcement of good behavior goes a lot further than punishment. It's very different from how most of us learned to train dogs in the past. Make a fuss and give a treat when he does his business outside. If you punish him inside, he's likely to just be more likely to pee someplace you can't see when you're not looking (which it sounds like he's already doing?). Wow, that is really interesting. I'd like to read more about that theory, since it seems to apply here. Eddie doesn't go on furniture at all (he's never tried). He's got 2 big beds, comforters and rugs that he prefers to lay on. I wonder if that will change in the near future. I kinda wish he would snuggle me on the couch, but he makes me get on the floor to cuddle with him. In the beginning we were making a big fuss when he pottied outside, but since he's been doing it consistantly for three months we've become pretty lax. I think we'll go back to lots of extra praise and treats for outside potties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zombrie Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Dogs live in the moment, if you don't discipline him while catching him in the act, then he has no idea why you are scolding himI have one that will pee in our guest room.. we closed that door and now she no longer pees in the house. That room is away from our normal hang out places so I believe that is why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
September Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Cookie started going up to my room to pee while I was at work. The spots were cleaned meticulously and I gated the stairway off- no more pee. Same with the basement. Gated it off- no more access. No more problems. Quote http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc124/TgrrValily/CookieMac2009pt2/siggyyayayayayay.jpg Waiting at the bridge: Buddy James, Cookie Dough, Shelby, and Mac. My angels New dog mom to dachshunds Ginger and Ruger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometdust1 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Just wanted to let you know that my dog has done that after guests slept in the guest room too.Maybe he's just trying to let the outsiders know that it's not their room!I now keep that door closed. no more pee anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhillyPups Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 In reading this I just have to say, (and I hope it is in a tone you will appreciate ) dogs do have accidents. It has nothing to do with trust, or spite, sometimes it just happens. If you have an "accident" or "make a mistake" do you have to go back to square zero in any relationship and earn the trust all over again? Dogs are living, breathing, thinking beings, each one is an individual. I live in a home with 6 greyhounds, each has its own personality Going back to square zero over a peeing incident is a bit over the top in my opinion, I would just go forward and get over it. The day I no longer have an accident in my home is the day I am at a point where I can no longer have a companion pet and I hope that day is far off. I clean each accident up and move on, maybe my son trained me better than I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grey_dreams Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 So I brought Eddie back upstairs (boy, did he ever look like he was walking the green mile), brought him to the bedroom and showed him the fresh pee spot. I gave him a stern, "bad dog" (two words he has never heard together), and he moped off into our room where my husband was still asleep. An hour later, he's still being Mr. Mopey and even my husband asked what was going on with him. As others have mentioned, and just wanted to add support to that, he looked "like he was walking the green mile" because of your anger and bearing, not because "he knew he did something wrong". The "moping" is because he is afraid of and confused by you. I'm sure you will both work through this little bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 You don't think I need to resort to the crate again, do you? Here's the thing. The crating process involves you gradually expanding their area of freedom as they gain trust. It sounds like you basically gave him free reign of the house after he showed a little bit of reliability. While a dog can view certain areas of the house as 'his den' or 'his territory,' that doesn't necessarily cover the entire house. My advice is to go back to the crate, then expand his area room by room. If he regresses, take a step back. It's not cruel or punishing... You may have given too much freedom too fast, and now he needs some more structure. By the way, this is a very easy mistake to make. Even when my puppy was 95% housebroken, he would sometimes have accidents in the basement. We don't spend much time in the basement, and it's close to the dog door, so it's almost as if he said, 'Alright! Close enough!' Any place with different sights and smells may seem okay as a potty place, especially if you've never explicitly taught them it isn't. Good luck with Eddie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandiandwe Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 The few weeks we've had an awful time of this. Brandi has peed in the house on five separate occasions. A couple of times it was, I think, because of a change in our routine and the weather. Then it was because she ate a whole lot of beef jerky, drank a lot of water and then couldn't get out (our fault for leaving the jerky where she could get it.) That resulted in four separate pee incidents in different parts of the house, and I suspect Paige may have joined in. Then Brandi peed last night in the guest room after we had a guest. On the bed. The doona is being sent out for cleaning today. I'm hoping we're nearly at the end of this as we went to the vet last week and got the all clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Firedancer Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Our Dancer had a lot of setbacks with peeing in the house, even on our bed, couch, and in her crate. We decided that she don't know what to do with the freedom and needed more boundaries. We restricted the couch privileges, got her off the bed, closed off the back room where she peed the most and crated her every time we left. She has gone over a month now with no accidents. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandiandwe Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 And things are back to normal here too! Man, this is tough sometimes. I also met a gorgeous girl yesterday who would fit right in. My heart is saying yes, but head says a firm no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KatyC Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 It could be marking, if he could smell another dog had been in there or do your guests have a dog at home? Peggy will we in both our parents houses, even if she has just been out. So we know it is marking and it's usually in the same places. Try giving the room a good clean and change bed linen etc so that there could be no smell lingering that would make him want to mark. Also clean where he went well, because the scent will make him think it's ok to go there again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GreytBengalMom Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Just an update - I cleaned the carpet, washed the linens, and put an air freshener in the room. We've kept the door shut, and have not had any further issues. Eddie has been out of the crate, and we've been ok! I've been making a big fuss over him when he potties in the yard. (I'm also trying to train him to only relieve himself in a particular area of the yard, and that's going well, too.) Really hoping that the issue is resolved and we won't have any more pee pee parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vinnysmom Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 And if it wasn't an option to discipline in the action, then you don't discipline him for it, period. Otherwise, all you do is confuse your dog, as he tries to figure out what got him in trouble. Was it coming to you? Acting happy when he saw you? Being downstairs? The poor dog has NO IDEA that you are upset because he peed in that room, so trying to discipline him for it is useless. I'd have the vet check for a UTI. The fact that he is going outside doesn't rule out that he has a sudden need to pee from an infection, and if that happens when you aren't at home.... If that's clean, then I would close off that room, for sure, and possibly baby-gate him into a smaller area when you are out, to make sure his denning instinct kicks in. I totally agree! We had a dog returned to our group recently where the people disciplined her for going potty in the house after they got home from work. This poor girl was sooooo confused!!! She had no idea what she was supposed to do or when. She thought that people coming home was a BAD thing, even though she desperately wanted them home. It's taken a couple months and she is finally figuring things out again. She now wears a thunder shirt while we're at work--which is the only time she has accidents now. She was having them all the time previously. She's come a long way, but they really did a number on her. Yes, I suggest to go back to crating. Really, 3 months time isn't enough time for them to earn your trust. Especially a track dog. Normally, 6 months is safe. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wasserbuffel Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Glad things are going well. My girl would sneak off to the basement to pee and poop when I first got her, before she knew how to ask to go outside. Part of my solution involved spending more time in that part of the house with her. I began feeding and training her in the basement, and sometimes just hanging out there reading a book with her. that, along with vigilance and positive reinforcement cleared up her issues and she now views the basement as part of her den. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatricksMom Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Glad he's doing better. Enough people have commented on the scolding so I won't add on. But I would suggest you stop thinking of crating as a negative things. Some dogs need to be crated to keep them safe/out of trouble, others like to be crated--it's their safe space, for some it's both, like my little shoe-eating, crate loving monster. Others dislike crates and don't need to be crated, it depends on the dog. In general, while it can be hard and I'm by no means perfect at this, there's really no point in getting angry over this kind of thing, it only upsets the dog and doesn't help them understand what you want. Try to keep in mind that he's not trying to cause a problem or upset you when this kind of thing happens. Quote Beth, Petey (8 September 2018- ), and Faith (22 March 2019). Godspeed Patrick (28 April 1999 - 5 August 2012), Murphy (23 June 2004 - 27 July 2013), Leo (1 May 2009 - 27 January 2020), and Henry (10 August 2010 - 7 August 2020), you were loved more than you can know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Symphony7 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) I will add a tiny story. I had a Sheltie who was a fabulous, well behaved and trained dog his whole life. A few times during his life he would get an upset tummy and go downstairs when we were away to poop in the basement. I would come in and there would be silence and he wouldn't come to the door barking (which, if you've ever known a Sheltie, is HIGHLY unusual). I never reprimanded him for it, because it certainly wasn't his fault. But he definitely knew he had pooped in the basement and that he was not supposed to potty in the house. He also used to jump the baby gate from the kitchen to the living room and hang out on the couch during the day when he was younger, then jump back in before I got home. The only way I found that out was one day I came home a little early and caught him still on the couch. He got up, trotted past me without a peep (again, Shelties are vocal dogs) and jumped back over the gate back into the kitchen. He was a clever dog. So, I do believe they can remember what they have done and that they weren't supposed to do it, but not if they weren't trained before. Edited April 12, 2013 by Symphony7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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