Behavior Issue

[Guest ShireLover]

Thoughts sometimes just ramble out of my head so forgive me if this jumps around a bit.

 

Let me start with a bit of background. We adopted 2 greys near the beginning of the year, they are retired "racers" but didn't do very well so they only ran about 8 races. They are both 2yrs old. Jazzy is very calm and doens't bark, she learned the stairs quickly only had an accident in the house once or twice. She was a bit shy when we first got her but has come out of her shell nicely. Sophie acts much more like a 2yo, she is hyper and doesn't settle down well. She barks, took forever to learn the stairs and had a bunch of accidents in the house. She is calming down a good bit and has figured out that outside is the potty place. Neither one of them mind getting pats and scratches and come to us to get loving a bunch. We have crates in our bedroom and they don't mind going in the crates and will run down the hall to get there. Both the wife and I work from home so they are only in their crates at night or when we have to go somewhere and no one will be at home.

 

We take them potty on a lead because we don't have a fenced yard.

 

Now the issue. In the late evening Sophie shows what I was thinking was sleep agression. When we would try to get her up to go potty before bed she would snarl and snap at us (ever now and then getting a grazing bite, but no broken skin). We always made sure she was awake, not just her eyes open but actually raising her head and following us with her eyes but that didn't help. I tried using treats to lure her off her bed and stand up but she is not very treat motivated. So we changed the routine and started feeding them 1/2 of their dinner and dinner time and keep the other 1/2 for a late night snack because she would get up to come in the kitchen to get her snack and once she was up there was no snarling and snapping. She has never really liked going out to go potty after dark, but normally would go out without much protest (a bit a statuing) and she is always productive. Now what has happened is Sophie has started to pee inside if she get her collar to take her to put her lead on or even if she just sees that you have the lead in your hand. I did stop her last night by putting my hand under her belly when she started to squat and then she snarled at me. If she really doesn't want to go outside then I would let her go to bed with a potty trip except that I have to lead her towards the bedroom or she would just go lay back down in the living room.

 

Any ideas would be appreciated because neither of us are scared of her (yet) but in the long run if she keeps snarling/snapping we may decide not to keep her. We don't want to get bit but we especially don't want our kids or others to get bit.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Feisty49]

My suggestion is to not take her outside for a late-evening pee. I know most people take their dogs out pretty late in the evening, but my girl doesn't want to go out late. The latest Annie has her last potty of the day is 7:00ish. Very often it's only 6:30. The other night our schedule was screwy and she happened to be outside at 5:30 and peed while there. She never asked to go out again and wouldn't come to me when I called at 8 o'clock, "Potty, Annie. Let's go." Once she's upstairs in her bed, which she usually goes to after the 7 o'clock pee, I would have to physically force her downstairs. She goes all night without a problem. I'm up in the morning between 6 and 6:30, and that's when she gets her first P&P opportunity of the day.

 

It wouldn't hurt to experiment by letting Sophie go all night without a before-bed chance to potty. If she can't make it, then you'll have to try something else. If she can go all night, as my girl does, then it's a win-win situation.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Feisty49

[Guest ShireLover]

Well we had a bit of a different situation today. I was out working on the fence we are putting up and ask the wife to come help. She was putting the dogs in their crates and Sophie did her submissive pose and peed in the living room. So it is not completely related to going outside or the dark.

[Feisty49]

Have you had her checked for a UTI or other medical issues?

[Guest PiagetsMom]

Was there an unpleasant experience for her on a walk, or while you were leashing her up? Or possibly she feels stressed by her "forced" potty breaks after dark and associates the leashing up with that. You might try putting her martingale on before she gets settled in her bed so all you have to do is clip her leash on to get her up and going if you really feel she needs to go before bed.

 

Does Sophie go willingly into her crate, or again, do you have to force her in? I don't know.....it sounds stress/fear related to me. I know this is stressful for y'all too......please be extra cautious with the kids around your girl. I wish I had better advice, and hopefully someone here will. You might think about contacting your adoption group as well

[Guest ShireLover]

We have not had her checked medically yet but I don't think it is UTI.

 

She had not had any traumatic issues unless it was before we got her. She goes into her crate willingly once I get her headed in the right direction. I really think it is stress related but I'm just not sure what is causing the stress. We are trying to notice ever little thing we do to see if we can figure out what is triggering this problem and hopefully some of it is just a part of her settling in. I will ask our adoption group but I'm not sure how helpful they will be.

 

We are making sure the kids are careful around her. Luckily our youngest is 15 so no toddlers here

[Guest PiagetsMom]

No, it doesn't particularly sound like a UTI. Some pups do take longer to settle in - my bridge girl, Piaget, took several months to really relax with us, but once she did, any issues she had pretty much disappeared. With my girl, Maya, I've had the opposite experience. Her issues really didn't present themselves until she had settled in and become more comfortable. And, as the behaviorist I've been working with for Maya recently told me, some pups are just more difficult than others. It's tough when you start to feel afraid or hesitant around your pup - they sense that, I'm sure. Good for you for reaching out for advice and asking questions. I don't know where you are, but your adoption group should be willing to help you with any issues or questions you may have, or at least point you in the direction of someone who can.

[greysmom]

Sounds like Sophie is going to be a bit more problematic than Jazzy. It happens. Just part of having two girls with differing personalities.

 

Several things come to mind. Anxiousness can manifest in many ways, two of which are biting and peeing. For some reason, she is feeling unclear about things, and this is how she's showing it. She might need some reinforcement about what her role is in the house - and what yours and your wife's are. Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF) training will help tell her what the order is. Basically, she doesn't get anything without doing something for it. It can be something simple - even a "watch me" command - but she should be asked to do it before she gets a treat, before she is released to eat her meal, before she gets pets and attention.

 

Also, you should seriously up the treat value. Shredded rotisserie chicken, or dehydrated liver, or stinky cheese are sure bets in my house. Use this treat when you really need her to do something - like go out for last potties, or into her crate - every time until she is going in without a protest. If she just doesn't want anything food-like, you can also use a squeaky toy or anything that she LOVES. If you find a treat that works, then spend some time re-crate-training her. Make the crate FUN and good. Throw the treat in the crate, let her eat it and come out, throw another small treat in - over and over. You can also try feeding her in her crate.

 

OR she may not need the crate. Some greyhounds do OK - obviously your other girl is one of those - but some begin to rebel quite soon after they come home. She may be just fine if left loose for short periods, especially in the beginning. Muzzle her if you think she might chew on things, and go ahead and crate Jazzy.

 

Also, it's never a good idea to grab a greyhound's collar to make them do something. None of them take very well to it, for some reason. If you need to, leave her leash attached to her collar at night to minimize the stress of that activity. Always supervise her, obviously.

 

If she tends to get "stuck" on a certain bed at night, simply deny her access to that bed after a specific time. Block her out of that room or pick the bed up.

 

Good luck.

[silverfish]

I agree, this sounds like an anxiety issue. She may not have had a bad experience before you got her, but for some greyhounds, being rehomed as a pet takes a lot of adjusting. Something that has happened may have convinced her that being a pet is tricky, confusing, and just plain upsetting. It may be that she needs more of a routine, as she had when she was racing, or it may be that - unwittingly - you have scared her; either by the way you approach her, or even the tone of your voice.

 

What anxious dogs seem to need more than anything else is approval, and anxious dogs 'misbehave' so often that a vicious cycle can form where they pee (or something) and you get annoyed, and they feed off that and get more anxious, and you (the owner) can find yourself in a position where the only time you speak or interact with them is to be negative.

 

So I also agree with greysmom that upping the treats may be the way to go. Make sure to find occasions when she is behaving well and tell her she's a good girl. Ask her to do something simple and reward her with a treat (and Jazzie too!). Tell her she's a good girl when she is simply lying quietly on her bed, or when she comes when you call her, and particularly when she pees outside. Doesn't have to be a big song and dance, just tell her, in a warm voice, and smile, as you walk past, or raise your eyes to look at her. She'll probably look confused at first, but this can actually be a good sign!

 

Let me just tell you that my DH loves the dogs and does his best but if one has been reluctant to do something he's asking of them, when they finally do as he asks, he will often praise them in exactly the same tone as he has been telling them off! And this is really not helpful - and actually, particularly when it's a male voice, it can sound as if you're growling, which is most confusing for them.

 

Would also be worth reading this. It's a lecture given by Kathleen Gilley about the transition from working greyhound to pet greyhound, written pretty much from the dog's point of view. It really brings home to you the confusion and difficulties they experience, that we can often forget is happening. It might help you to understand her behaviour a bit better - it might not, but it's still worth reading!

[GeorgeofNE]

These are very young dogs with a limited amount of time at the track, so let's not imagine some horrid trauma associated with their "careers."

 

It sounds to ME as if she doesn't want to sleep in the crate anymore. I'd have to wonder why you're making her? My dog despised his crate from day one, and the misery we both went through trying to force the issue nearly destroyed the relationship before it had a chance. Luckily I wised up and ditched the thing.

[a_daerr]

I agree with the others- it sounds like an anxiety-related issue. Anxiety can manifest in a lot of different ways. I've met several greyhounds over the years who were VERY outgoing, loved people, and had a lot of energy. But, every so often, they developed anxious quirks over little things. One greyhound in my class was uncomfortable with exercises where he had to walk on different surfaces- he hated the grate. Everytime it was his turn, he got anxious and started play-bowing at his owner and barking. We thought he was just being silly, but we later made the connection that it was stress related. Peeing only during a specific part of your routine indicates fear or nervousness associated with that action.

 

What you should start doing is positive reinforcement training. And to be clear- if a dog is hungry, he or she WILL be food motivated. So if she's having difficulty focusing on treats, cut back her kibble for awhile. Anytime you pick the leash up, she gets a treat. Click the latch on the leash, she gets a treat. Attach the leash to her collar, she gets a treat. Teach her the command "watch me" so that whenever she makes eye contact, she gets a treat. Then on your walks, reward her by giving treats and saying "good girl" everytime she looks at you for reassurance. When she does her business, immediately give her a treat. And watch her like a hawk when she's inside. If you catch her in the act, clap your hands or make a loud noise to distract her, then immediately leash her up and take her outside, and REWARD PROFUSELY when she goes where she's supposed to. You may want to consider a basic obedience class as a way to develop basic training skills and a stronger bond. It did wonders for my fear-aggressive dog, Henry. He started very growly-snappy as a result of fear, but he's pretty much bombproof now. He's also a certified therapy dog.

 

Also, my other piece of advice is to just give her some time before you consider returning her. Often times, the "hard nuts to crack" turn into wonderful, loving, well-behaved dogs. That was certainly the case with both of my guys. We often look back and laugh because we almost returned Henry- I'd be kicking myself now if I did.

[Guest ShireLover]

We have somewhat always done the NILIF training with our previous dogs even before we knew it had a name. I think we need to be more vigilant with these guys. I will look at upping the treat value to be able to grab her attention more.

 

What anxious dogs seem to need more than anything else is approval, and anxious dogs 'misbehave' so often that a vicious cycle can form where they pee (or something) and you get annoyed, and they feed off that and get more anxious, and you (the owner) can find yourself in a position where the only time you speak or interact with them is to be negative.

 

We try not to raise our voices and have never "punished" her for having an accident in the house. We tell her she is a good girl often when she is being good (which is most of the time). I do have a deep voice and I could see where it may come across like a growl.

 

These are very young dogs with a limited amount of time at the track, so let's not imagine some horrid trauma associated with their "careers."

 

I'm not assuming that anything happened to her except that I know she was underweight and dehydrated when she came to the adoption group and they had to give her IV fluids so something may have happened. That is neither here nor there because she is who she is and we want to work through the "issues" no matter where they may have come from.

 

It sounds to ME as if she doesn't want to sleep in the crate anymore. I'd have to wonder why you're making her? My dog despised his crate from day one, and the misery we both went through trying to force the issue nearly destroyed the relationship before it had a chance. Luckily I wised up and ditched the thing.

 

The main reason she sleeps in her crate at night is because we have two cats and while she doesn't really have much of a prey drive she still gets too excited around the cats. Plus both of them are chewers and can get their muzzles off so we are not ready to leave them loose at night or when we are gone.

 

Also, my other piece of advice is to just give her some time before you consider returning her.

 

We are trying to be patient and let her settle in because we really feel that she is becoming a good dog. Plus we take adoption seriously and would not easily return a pet.

 

Thanks for all your suggestions, I will implement them and see what happens.

 

Eric

[Guest ShireLover]

Quick update.

 

We have made it Sophie's decision if she wants to go out for a pee before bed, which she has about half of the time and started using some cheese as a reward for going in her crate and there have been no peeing in the house or growling/snapping. So hopefully this will continue and she will settle in even better.

 

Eric

[Feisty49]

Quick update.

 

We have made it Sophie's decision if she wants to go out for a pee before bed, which she has about half of the time and started using some cheese as a reward for going in her crate and there have been no peeing in the house or growling/snapping. So hopefully this will continue and she will settle in even better.

 

Eric

 

 

That's greyt! She'll like the routine, even the one where she gets to decide if she needs to pee before bed, and will settle down even more.