Cesar's Leader Of The Pack

[Guest 2greys2cats]

Giselle,

Sometimes it all boils down to faith. Science cant explain everything.

^^^this

[Guest gurehaundo]

I haven't watched a Cesar show in several years, but his methods do sometimes work with certain dogs. We've had to implement Cesar's methods with our coonhound. We have a pack with seven dogs and that mentality is definitely there. Take one of our dogs out of the house and there will be an obvious change in the remaining dogs. Six Pac is the type of dog who will run all over people if given the chance. She needs someone to tell her how to behave. What I've learned from Cesar doesn't appear to be negative reinforcement. I use tactics that another dog would use. I don't use my voice or my hands. I use my eyes and my demeanor, and it actually works. I don't have to use Cesar's methods with the greys and IGs.

 

I wish I had cable so I could see the galgos on his show.

 

ETA: I forgot to mention that our dogs behave differently when a person leaves the house, too. When I'm by myself the dogs are calm and just sleep the day away. When my husband comes home Six Pac becomes a wild child - stealing DVDs off the shelf, barking, etc. I think my husband just has a different energy about him that excites the hounds. Me? I'm boring at home. I do tend to become very anxious and nervous when I'm out in public. I can see how my dogs also become a little anxious when they're with me in public. I exude that kind of energy. I'm also very science-oriented, but I do believe that people carry an energy. It may not be the same energy all day long, but there is something there that the dogs pick up on. Pheromones maybe? I don't know.

Edited February 12, 2013 by gurehaundo

[Guest adoptagreyhound]

We recorded the show and just finished watching it tonight. One of my worries was the skinny collar/leash he had on the Galgo, especially since they were all jerking Amigo around by his neck with that skinny leash. When they did the later visit with the owners, they were also using a skinny leash. Obviously, because that's what they saw Cesar using. When the rescue group brought Amigo to Cesar, he had on the leather English-style collar, which was far more appropriate, in my opinion anyway.

 

I was pretty happy to see all the greys/galgos he had in his pack. They were quite relaxed and seemed happy.

[MerlinsMum]

Why the general public continues to disregard science and believe in "energy" and "linear social hierarchies" as a means of behavior modification is beyond me. It is truly upsetting.

Ah. Terrific post. Thank you!! I don't get it either and yes, it is truly upsetting. Then again, there are people who pay charlatans to "translate" what their animals are psychically telling them So is this surprising?

 

Giselle,

Sometimes it all boils down to faith. Science cant explain everything.

I'm sorry, but ^this is silly. We're talking about dog behavior and training. Faith has absolutely nothing to do with it. There are methods that are based on the plethora of studies we have conducted on animal behavior, and then there's someone's self-concocted "formula" which is based on anecdotal evidence and opinion. I'll stick with science. And anyone who is interested in leaning how to communicate better with dogs should do the same. Edited February 13, 2013 by MerlinsMum

[christinepi]

His shows are so unscientific and sound bite driven they (for me) are hard to watch. Not only that, they lack any kind of depth. I watched this one only because it had a Galgo in it. He poked it just like he so often pokes other dogs. It looked like it nearly wet its pants (mentally) after Millan did that, and even yelped. This dog did not look happy and relaxed, either, after Millan "corrected" it near the bunnies. Rather like shocked. He kept referring to this dog as aggressive, when the dog really was, in my mind, totally frustrated when it went ballistic on leash; we never saw it off leash with other dogs, before Millan got it--I'm not an expert, but to me the Galgo seemed leash aggressive rather than categorically aggressive. If this dog had truly been as aggressive as stipulated, it would have been plenty unethical to hand over this dog after THREE days to a couple that had next to no experience with dogs.

 

But, on the plus side, hopefully this show will make people more aware of the Galgo's plight and encourage people to adopt more shelter dogs in general.

Edited February 13, 2013 by christinepi

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

MerlinsMum,

You love to argue, dont you. Now have the last word...

[Guest cdholl]

Yikes! Didn't realize what I started! lol. I'm always trying to pick up pointers from anywhere I can, and I've gotten some from him that have been useful. But some parents spank kids and some don't so I guess dog training is the same!

[robinw]

Yikes! Didn't realize what I started! lol. I'm always trying to pick up pointers from anywhere I can, and I've gotten some from him that have been useful. But some parents spank kids and some don't so I guess dog training is the same!

Welcome to GT!

[JenniferS]

All dogs should get along with other breeds, it floors me when people say that their greyhound is not "other breed safe".

 

I'm sorry, but not all dogs get along with other breeds. Maybe they should, but they don't. My Quiet Man was not "other breed safe" and I had him for 7 years; through trainers, behaviorists, and a slew of other methods, he was and would always be only good with other greyhounds. That was who he was.

[Guest Giselle]

Giselle,

Sometimes it all boils down to faith. Science cant explain everything.

Those who truly understand science also understand statistics and that nothing/nobody can explain anything at all. ALL we know are within "bounds". Everything is bounded by uncertainty. Certainty is, thus, bounded. We have confidence intervals. We have rejected hypotheses. But that does not mean that we can definitively "explain" anything at all. But does that mean - if you throw an apple up in the air, it won't fall back down? No. Because we have so much data and so much evidence that gravitational forces exist that it'd be totally asinine to suggest otherwise.

 

This is how science works. It finds general principles that are, to our best knowledge, true for most data, and we keep refining our knowledge until these "truths" become harder and harder to refute. Learning theory has done just that. Behavior medicine is doing that.

 

As a to-be-veterinary student in the fall pursuing behavior medicine, I cannot accept nor justify blind "faith" as a tool for modifying behavior. To me, this is about as asinine as thinking that an apple tossed into the air won't propel back down due to the force of our Earth's gravitational field.

[cleptogrey]

this is my interpertation of what i saw...posted in another blog on gt

 

Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:56 AM

to put it in a nutshell- the pup needed to be a solo dog. great temperment, great w/ other galgos, but strong preydrive that couldn't be handled by the original owner. it's not easy keeping a dog w/ that much instinct undercontrol w/ another grey at your side. they do team up and feed off of each other- salukis are notorious w/ this- especially with any other breed(i had salukis for nearly 20 years).

 

it was interesting how cesar immediatly took the harness and martingale off the pup to when it came to communicating there was one method. his standard polk to get it out of his "zone". also, they used a standard kennel lead for walking. i thought the martingale it had on was illfitting and dangerous. having it hooked up to the harness did what???

 

personally, i watched it for the galgo/greyhound episode, it's become a typical american contest reality show(not that the other format was much better). but for amigo, it was the one on one attention and correction that the answer to his success.

 

btw, i walk my greys w/ regular buckle collars- 1"wide, fishtale(european style) or martingale, it's getting the collar to fit right that's the trick.

[Guest sweetpea]

Edited February 18, 2013 by sweetpea

[Guest Capslock]

I don't mind Cesar's tactics at all. He is a specialist in strong-willed, aggressive breeds. He has said previously that greyhounds are different and have a "softer" energy. And from what I can tell, what he does generally works. I uses SOME of his methods with my greys, respecting the difference in greyhounds. Heck, even my greys have all been different. Part of what he does well is read the dogs, and understand what they need. The important thing is to communicate to them that it's unacceptable behavior. A little poke to the side will snap them out of destructive fixations, and does NOT HURT the dog. Like everything on TV, it's simplified, sensationalized, and even fictionalized to an extent, but the underlying concepts are sound, in my opinion.

I also love the pack concept. I think it's healthy for dogs to be around other dogs (when possible), and that they do learn good behavior from a balanced pack. Dogs look to everyone around them, people and dogs, for cues on how to behave. It's up to us to determine the right way to communicate with our individual dogs. Also, as someone else said, this episode exposes more about galgos to the public, which can only be good.

[christinepi]

As an aside, about his being a specialist in strong willed, aggressive breeds: from what I've seen, many of the dogs on his show are very often dogs that never were taught decent manners, because the owners didn't know how to. So these dogs got unclear and mixed messages from their owners and just don't know how to interpret this craziness. Also, they often don't get anywhere near enough exercise (something that Millan stresses is important). So no wonder they act aggressive, when really, they often aren't. They just need rules they can understand. (I'm not saying he doesn't also work with really aggressive breeds.)

 

I also think in our instant gratification culture the public loves to watch these quick conversions. On his shows, he has these often outwardly aggressive seeming dogs (again, some really are much more "loaded"), he pokes them a few times and hisses at them, and voila, the pooch is docile and compliant. As opposed to training methods that take some more involved thinking about what's driving the dog, require a time commitment and intend to change the underlying emotional state. I'd love to see statistics on longterm success or lack thereof in the dogs he's worked with.

[MerlinsMum]

Sorry - double post.

Edited February 18, 2013 by MerlinsMum

[MerlinsMum]

Absolutely.

 

Love Neil DeGrasse Tyson It's ironic that he said that to Bill Maher, who is a rabid anti-vaxxer...