Ace's Breathing

[cleptogrey]

willie wonka's bark- which always sounded like a seal(inherited from his grandfather) never changed w/ his lp. i do love the sound of that raspy louis armstrong bark! how long has he sounded like stchmo? best of luck in getting to the bottom of this.

 

btw- i use a medicine dropper- for a baby to give the dogs a squirt of lemon juice(the liquid in the jar). fast,easy, no mess. also works well on reverse sneezes.

[greyhead]

Sorry, Liza, I didn't get to speak to the vet personally today. So I'll email her to see if she has the scope and if she's comfortable doing the procedure. At least we know she handles greyhounds and anesthesia very well! (Spencer's dental went fine and he's fine. Bounced into the car an hour after waking up. Thanks for asking.)

[3greytjoys]

We currently have two senior Greyhounds with Laryngeal Paralysis (aka: roaring disease in horses). One recently experienced a life-threatening severe LP breathing crisis + overheating in extreme panic. (Desperate to breathe oxygen, frantic panting sounded like a loud, speeding freight train, eyes buldging, body trembling, purple gums (dark red from overheating + blue from lack of oxygen). Excessive heavy panting while struggling to breathe increases swelling in throat, blocking airway faster.) This requires immediate emergency veterinary attention.

 

When breathing normally, neither of our LP hounds sound as distressed as Ace's breathing does at rest. One of our hounds has had advanced LP for several years, so that makes me think if Ace has LP, his may be much more advanced. You might not see a dramatic gum color difference unless Ace goes into a breathing crisis, which hopefully he can avoid. I'm glad you are seeking veterinary help quickly. The videos of his condition sound serious to me.

 

Please keep Ace's environment very calm, cool, no strenuous exercise, reduce excitement, use harness if walking (no collar), wet kibble in raised bowl, and above all be careful to keep him free of stress. Try to take him in as close as possible to his scheduled surgery time and pick him up as soon as vet will allow after recovery. If he stresses going to vet, maybe vet could recommend an oral sedative to offer him before the vet visit.

 

Please take a look at the symptoms in this Laryngeal Paralysis link:

http://cvm.msu.edu/hospital/clinical-research/golpp-study-group/living-with-golpp

Edited January 25, 2013 by 3greytjoys

[3greytjoys]

If Ace is diagnosed with LP, you might be interested in this devoted canine LP group (includes successful tie-back surgery cases): http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/

[Guest gurehaundo]

Thanks for the links! Ace has been doing that regurgitation thing for a few years. We adopted him six years ago, and it seems as if he's been doing it longer than I can remember him not doing it. It's like he'll burp, lick his lips, then some spittle comes out. Sometimes there will be small chunks of kibble or a cookie in it while other times it looks like water. He doesn't do it all the time and maybe not everyday, but he does do it. He burps a lot, too. Around the same time the breathing issue started, his throat began making this trickling sound. When he swallows, it sounds like trickling water going down his throat.

 

The vet said he sounded mucousy which is why she wanted to try the antihistamine first.

 

3greytjoys, I'm assuming you opted for the surgery with your greyhounds. Did their symptoms start off kind of suddenly? Ace didn't seem to have any breathing issues a month ago, but he's clearly struggling now. Our house is usually pretty quiet. I just got home from work so it's just me and the dogs. My kids are in school and so is my husband. I'll stay awake until my kids come home, but then I'll go to bed. The kids are teenagers who spend most of their time in their rooms. Both are normally quiet and just do their homework or watch videos. With four people and seven dogs in the house, we are quite inactive and silent. The only time it gets crazy is when it's time to feed the dogs. Six Pac and Tovi go nuts for a little bit. The other dogs remain calm.

 

Here are some videos I took within the last hour:

 

 

 

Ace seems a bit more sleepy today. The vet hasn't called yet, but I was told that she would today.

 

Yay for Spencer! I'm glad he's doing well, Maryellen!

[MP_the4pack]

By the way, CG magazine had an LP issue. At least 2 articles, one from the vet point of view, one from the owner point of view dedicated to LP in the greyhound.. Summer 2011. (correct me if I'm wrong on the issue).

 

So, why not contact the Greyhound Project and see if they have any spare issues? Or see if someone can lend you their copy.

[Guest gurehaundo]

And another video... I'm sure I'm meeting my quota for the next ten years.

 

Thanks, MP. I used to have a subscription to CG Magazine. I'll see if I can locate a copy of the issue you're referring to. I've actually never heard of laryngeal paralysis until yesterday. I've been reading up on all the links people have been posting so thank you to everyone!

[greyhead]

Liza, I've emailed the vet to ask if she does scoping and tie-backs, so I'll let you know what I hear back. I'm not sure that bringing him over the hill this time of year with breathing problems is the absolute best move, though. I could also check with my greyhound group if you like, as the main group is in Spokane, and they might know of someone qualified somewhere between them and you. Which is not to say that I think it's LP, because I surely don't know. Meanwhile I'll check my issues of CG as I should have the one that was mentioned.

[greyhead]

I found two articles in the 2011 issue and one in the 2000 issue of CG. I'll scan them and email them to you, okay?

[Guest grey_dreams]

Poor Ace. Sorry you are going through this. Hope you can find a vet to help and Ace will soon be fine. Here is an article on laryngeal paralysis from the American College of Veterinary Surgeons.

[Guest gurehaundo]

Thanks, Maryellen! If it's LP, I'm hoping that there's someone in Yakima who can perform the scoping and surgery. If it's not LP, well, we'll have to figure something out. Yes, if you can send me those articles I would love it! Thank you!

[Guest gurehaundo]

Poor Ace. Sorry you are going through this. Hope you can find a vet to help and Ace will soon be fine. Here is an article on laryngeal paralysis from the American College of Veterinary Surgeons.

Ah yes, this is the first website I visited yesterday. Thank you for taking the time to post the link, and thanks for the well-wishes. Ace is a special dude. We'll explore all the options and do what's best for him.

 

I forgot to mention that his dish sits on top of a little table so it is raised. He gets warm water mixed with his kibble to make a sort of gravy. The only time he gets anything dry to eat is if he gets a cookie - which is a few times a day. We may have to look for treat alternatives just in case.

[3greytjoys]

Thank you for posting these valuable videos for Ace's benefit and for others. I'm not a vet, but laryngeal paralysis sounds and looks just like what Ace is experiencing. I would urge you to continue searching for a qualified surgical veterinarian to diagnose Ace and decide how best to proceed with his care. If your vet has trouble finding a referral for you soon, it might help to call a couple of the largest, most well-respected animal hospitals in the largest nearby city. They would likely know vets in surrounding counties experienced with LP surgeries.

 

If it happens to be LP, if left untreated too long, LP is a progressive disease that can eventually cause a dog to suffer full suffocation from paralyzed throat flaps blocking oxygen intake. An LP breathing crisis is a horrific experience for a dog (and their humans), especially if they can't get emergency veterinary help immediately.

 

To answer your questions: Seems many LP cases progress slowly over years, but signs are often missed. We believe one of our hounds arrived with some signs of LP (seen during strenuous exercise at age 6-7), but signs progressed to become more apparent (particularly to vet during a hot summer visit) the following year. Careful management has offered success for 4-5 years. Our other hound's symptoms didn't begin to become noticeable about age 9.5-10 (including nerve related sensitivity in rear legs). One hound was deemed (by board certified surgeon) to not be a candidate for surgery; however, surgery is being considered for the other hound. Again, both of our LP hounds still breathe freely and very quietly when in their familiar environment at rest.

 

BTW, it's helpful to carry large water bottles in car if needed to help cool a Greyhound (if overheating) during a ride. Please remember no collars on a hound with upper airway breathing trouble. Please use a harness instead. Positive thoughts for Ace. (PM if needed.)

Edited January 26, 2013 by 3greytjoys

[45MPHK9]

No advice, just thinking good thoughts for your handsome boy.

[cleptogrey]

"BTW, it's helpful to carry large water bottles in car if needed to help cool a Greyhound (if overheating) during a ride. Please remember no collars on a hound with upper airway breathing trouble. Please use a harness instead. Positive thoughts for Ace. (PM if needed.)"

 

i never took my welsh terrier w/ lp out when the weather was hot and opressive to HIM!i went entirely on his tolerance, not mine. he was limited to outing on cool days and very early mornings or late nights. if he did seem hot- the little bugger was a soccer freak and loved to chase brooms, rakes and other moving objects as well as squirrels i hosed him down. cold water and start under the chest and belly for fast cooling. i also had to avoid taking him for rides in the car when it was warm out. camping was out of the question. a couple of times he had a bad attack- hosed him, placed him in the crate in a cool area and waited it out. within 1/2 hr or so he would come back. yes, ultimately we did use a harness on him. but keeping the environment down righ frigid was the answer. my vet's kennels are quite cold, the dogs love it and he vacationed there w/o any problems.

 

as to cooling jackets, even the ice chilled jackets offered at meet and greets around here heat up really quickly w/ a warm dog. felix seems not to get any relief from them. i try my best to keep all dogs out what ever they feel are hot conditions.

[3greytjoys]

Thanks Cleptogrey for mentioning the warm temperature concerns. Excellent points as we're approaching warmer weather months.

 

Being January in Washington, my comment re: water in car is for all year, but especially considering a (rare) possibility of Ace suddenly becoming overly stressed from excitement causing overheating during an extended car ride (i.e., if he needs to be transported some distance for medical test/treatment). Also, we were told not to travel with our advanced LP hound to higher elevations/over high mountain passes. If that is required for medical treatment, please discuss your travel route with your vet.

 

Agreed, dry dog treats should be avoided. Until finding an alternative, you might soak Ace's dog cookies in water, or offer soaked kibble as treats.

 

If giving pills, soft "Pill Pockets" work well (beef flavor is favored here). We buy "capsule" size and custom wrap each pill. (More product for same money as tablet size.)

 

Please let us know how it goes with Ace. He looks like such a sweetheart love bug from his videos!

[Guest gurehaundo]

Yeah, Ace has never tolerated the heat very well. I won't take the hounds out unless it's a bit on the cool side. It can get up to 100+ degrees here, but I think the high last summer was around 95 or so. We always take bottled water and the portable doggy dish with us if we travel for more than half an hour. Thanks for the tip about putting cold water on Ace's underside first. I normally drench the poor guy! His underside gets wet eventually, but I'll remember to cool that part of him first next time. I did not know that bit about high elevation. Where we lived in Colorado was a few hundred feet higher than Snoqualmie Pass, the pass we would need to drive over in order to get to the Seattle area. We'll try to stay local to minimize travel time so he won't be too stressed out.

 

I put Ace's coat on him when I took him to the vet last week. It didn't occur to me that he could've been overheating in the car or the vet's office. I think I'll just keep him naked the next time we go out. Unfortunately, I don't have any greyhound-sized harnesses, but I do know that Alisha from 2Hounds makes some. I'm keeping her in the back of my mind in case Ace does have LP.

 

Today is day six of the Zyrtec trials... Ace is calmer, but he still sounds like the ocean. He still hasn't panted nor has he barked.

 

By the time Ace gets his meal, his kibble is gravy-ish and kind of mushy. I have seven bowls to prepare. Ace's food is prepared first, then everyone else's. He's given his food first while everyone else has to wait. Ace has always been the slowest eater which is why he always eats first - he always finishes last, too.

 

Ace is an awesome puppy. He chose us to spend the rest of his life with. He was overlooked repeatedly because he ran and hid in his crate from potential adopters. When we went to his foster people's house, Ace was all up in our business. The foster people were amazed at Ace's behavior. I adopted him right then and there. I had a little Honda Civic at the time and Ace just walked right in to go home. His foster people always had to pick him up and put him in their car. It was meant to be! Ace is my buddy, and he knows it. I even call him "Buddy" more than I call him by his name. He would follow me to the end of the Earth without a leash. He is extremely loyal and too sweet for words.

 

Please note that he is never unleashed unless he's in a securely fenced-in area. I'm just saying he would follow me without me asking him to. ;-) I would follow him to the end of the world, too. He is very, very special to me. Out of our six dogs (and one foster IG), Ace is the only one who chose to be with us. The rest of the hounds weren't given an option. Ha!

[Guest gurehaundo]

Here are a couple of videos that were taken today:

 

 

In this video, Ace just woke up and went to get a drink of water. Feel free to fast forward through the first 50 seconds. When he gets close to my phone at :50, that's what he sounds like when I listen to him without the video. You can hear his throat do that gurgling/burping sound a couple of times.

 

 

So Ace is breathing a lot better today than he was last Tuesday, however, he almost sounds worse than he did before the vet visit. He's still taking the Zyrtec. A friend of mine (greyhead) brought up some interesting questions and thought I should run them by you guys.

 

My vet suggested that she could sedate Ace and look at his throat visually - no scope. Because Ace wakes up thrashing about and overly stressed from anesthesia, I'm hesitant to put him under multiple times. The vet said that if she couldn't see anything without the scope, then she would still have to refer him to Seattle or Pullman (WSU). This is almost a no-brainer. I feel that if he's going to be anesthetized, then we should do it with the scope, but then the long distance traveling comes into play. Has anyone (or know of anyone who has) ever had their vet perform a non-scoping procedure to either confirm laryngeal paralysis or rule it out?

 

Last Tuesday the vet thought that Ace sounded mucousy. Could this be related to LP? Could LP cause post-nasal drip to worsen? Could the Zyrtec be clearing out Ace's nasal cavity which is why he sounds worse, but is breathing better? By breathing better I mean calmer, but he could've just been stressed out/overheated at the vet's office, and is now back to his comfort zone. But again, he sounds worse than he did two weeks ago.

Edited January 30, 2013 by gurehaundo

[tbhounds]

Checking to see if a hound has LP is actually a very, very easy procedure. They simply lightly sedate your dog and visually look down his throat. No scoping involved.

Edited to add--not with propofol

Edited January 30, 2013 by tbhounds

[greyhead]

Checking to see if a hound has LP is actually a very, very easy procedure. They simply lightly sedate your dog and visually look down his throat. No scoping involved.

Edited to add--not with propofol

 

That sounds very encouraging!

[Guest gurehaundo]

Yes, yes it does! Thanks!