Dog Fight This Morning

[Guest 2GreytsMom]

It seems that taking greys to a dog park is a very personal decision based on your knowledge of your own dog and your evaluation of the other dogs in the park. You can't take anything for granted. Even with the best of circumstances, to me, it seems like a good amount of risk is involved.

 

I have a very large yard so my 2 get plenty of running as well as neighborhood walks. I feel that between having each other and meeting with dogs on our walks, they get enough socialization. From their reactions to the dogs they meet and observations of them running in the yard, I don't think I'd want to attempt the dog park with mine. My 2 have to be muzzled to run in the yard together. Billy loves to run for the pure joy of it and he's a hardy soul physically. Since I've had him, he's never gotten so much as a nick. He's got good manners- pretty good recall, knows 'leave it' and is patient with his sister. Wiki on the other hand, has such delicate skin that she's gotten nicks & scrapes from just the grass, dirt, patio, rocks or mulch around the backyard. She's also competitive and feisty and her manners are not as good when outside off leash. I made the mistake once of letting them run together without muzzles and when Billy had enough of Wiki's nipping at his ear and the next thing I knew, a correcting growl turned into a small tear on Wiki's shoulder. Billy had no intention of biting her, but she ran into his momentarily bared teeth. If that's how they are with each other & they love each other & are inseparable in the house, I know I wouldn't chance an encounter with unfamiliar dogs no matter how "harmless" they looked - not to mention the uneven, possibly rocky terrain. The dog park doesn't have the soft sandy base of a training run. I know I'd be asking for an injury. I'd also be afraid of a "pack" mentality with a large number of dogs going after a weaker dog or god forbid injured dog.

 

I'm lucky that I don't need to find a place for them to run. I hope that you can find a time, a place and cooperative gentle playmates to get your pup the exercise and socialization. My advise to you would be to try and go to the dog park when there are only 1 or 2 other dogs that you think would be non-competitive and gentle. Try to go slower introducing other dogs to make sure that your pup learns the rules under calmer circumstances. Your pup may be overwhelmed by more that just a couple of other dogs - an over-stimulated & over-excited pup may learn more bad behavior than good behavior which is not what you are trying to achieve. Good luck.

[Guest jbbuzby]

For what it's worth, I take my hounds to the park at off hours when no one else is there and let them take turns running (that's right...I don't even let them run together...my male turns into a competitive bully), so they each get their five minutes and then we leave. They even know to wait their turns and the command, "Okay, go run!" As far as socialization goes, going there every day with a puppy can create an unbalanced type of response...sort of like if you took your kid to chuck-e-cheese every day instead of school. It might be more beneficial to work on other behaviors, like leash walking for a few miles, or learning a new trick, than going to the dog park every day. I'd say try to lessen the time you go there and use the time you would be there to do a different type of mental exercise. If he learns that the dog park is the only place and time to release his silly puppy energy, it will get rather annoying to other dogs around.

 

Another option in the meantime might be to have him go to daycare a few times a week (or whatever you can afford). There he'd be grouped with dogs of similar energy level and be constantly supervised by a trained staff member (make sure you pick a center that is quality that would have something like this). That way, you can pick up a tired puppy who had appropriate play in a more controlled environment. I imagine daycare might also have some stigma on the forum like dog parks, but I've personally had very good experience with it thus far and find it very useful, like for when I move next week to get the dogs acclimated.

 

In any case, expand your puppy's horizons. I'd make dog-park play a very supplemental or occasional thing and direct his energy (mentally and physically) elsewhere.

[krissy]

I WISH my dog was a dog park dog. It was one thing I looked forward to immensely before we adopted. Our foster hound would have been a great dog park guy, but Summit is definitely not. I have taken him to a few on occasion. Usually it is because I am visiting (or being visited by) a friend with a dog and we want to do something with them. I am always a little on edge and can't really enjoy it. I have to constantly be monitoring what dogs are coming in, what dogs are near mine, etc. It's not relaxing or much fun except when the park is nearly empty and the few dogs that ARE there are compatible with mine. But even so I have to keep a vigilant eye on the gate. I will admit that now that I know my dog better and know what kinds of dogs he gets along with it has gotten easier. For example I know the instant I spot a husky anywhere nearby (even on leashed walks) that I need to call Summit to me, possibly hold onto him or leash him, and start asking for his "watch me" command and giving rewards. He has a serious hate on for the huskies (and any dog with blue eyes). I also have a general idea for what energies he does not mix well with and I can avoid those dogs if necessary. But honestly it's easiest just to avoid the dog park with Summit. There are lots of other ways for us to enjoy our time together and get exercise.

 

Also, a lot of "dog fights" look scary but they are just a show. You will know a dog fight and there will usually be blood. Summit doesn't get along with all other dogs and in spite of my vigilant eye he has on occasion gotten into a tiff with another dog which looks terrifying but I now know was all show between the dogs. Summit was actually attacked by my boss' dog a few months back. It was a total fluke. We went over to his house so Summit could get a good run in their backyard. We went right through the gate instead of through the house because my boss' one dog attacks cats, small critters, and small dogs. Summit is by far larger but we didn't want to deal with introductions. Unfortunately for us one of his daughters was home early from school and had let their two dogs out so when we went into the backyard the dogs were there to meet us. Everything was fine for about 10 seconds and then there was a fight, Summit still on his leash. And Summit does NOT back down from a fight. We broke them up almost instantly (without getting bit thankfully) and in the 5-10 seconds that the fight took Summit had 3 puncture wounds. Thankfully they were all small and on his chest/leg. Thankfully he didn't suffer any long term "emotional" damage either. But if that fight had been at a dog park where you are not always RIGHT NEXT TO THE DOGS, it could have been terrible. It's better to be safe than sorry. That's why we don't frequent the dog park much anymore.

[JJNg]

As far as socialization goes, going there every day with a puppy can create an unbalanced type of response...sort of like if you took your kid to chuck-e-cheese every day instead of school.

 

I love this analogy!

 

I imagine daycare might also have some stigma on the forum like dog parks, but I've personally had very good experience with it thus far and find it very useful, like for when I move next week to get the dogs acclimated.

 

Doggie daycare can vary widely in how they're managed. Many do not provide enough supervision and too much activity/interaction. Especially if they are staying there for a good portion of the day, dogs typically require more downtime and rest than they need play and activity. And just like dog parks, whether a well-run daycare is appropriate or beneficial depends a lot on the temperament of the particular dog.

[a_daerr]

Because this is such a heated topic on these boards, I rarely share my opinion or discuss that Teddi and I frequent the dog park everyday and have a great time. It's just not worth getting yelled at about.

 

However.

 

If I saw a dog that acted like yours did I would be afraid to be around that dog and would definitely be fearful of having Teddi near him. I'm fortunate to have a dog park where the owners are responsible, and stand right by their dogs constantly. Teddi is the perfect dog park dog--instant recall, knows "leave it" and "play nice", and generally goes to the park to get loved on by people and then stays by my side after a few zoomies. While I love the dog park and am so grateful that Teddi gets some nice off-lead time, if he acted like yours even once, we would not go back for a while, if ever. Just not worth the risk.

 

Just my 2 cents!

 

This.

[NeylasMom]

As far as needing the dog park.....I don't buy it. I suggest your boy's exercise needs be met in ways other than dog parks.

 

A lot of people are saying this, but it's not exactly true. When Diego was a puppy and I lived in a condo with no yard, he NEEDED the dog park. No amount of exercise I could give him by myself - hiking, biking, running, walking - replaced his time at the dog park. Once we walked 5 miles straight and he was still full of energy when we got back home. It's the other dogs that make the difference. An 18 month old greyhound is completely different from even a 3 year old greyhound. Most people on this forum haven't dealt with a greyhound that young. Their energy is boundless.

 

I know a lot of greyhound people hate dog parks, but if done properly, they can be an asset. No need to jump down the OP's throat about it.

And have read as much in articles from reliable dog behaviorists - not that they need to play with other dogs necessarily, but that they do NEED off lead time to really run it out, whether that's with other dogs (certainly the base case if your dog does well in this situation) or playing fetch, that sort of thing. Walks and training are NOT sufficient. If I needed reassurance, I've gotten it with my 11 mo.

 

 

To the OP, I stopped reading somewhere in page 2 so perhaps someone has already said this, but I'm actually not clear on what really happened from your description. You said that the other dog was "coming after" Cletus after you had pulled him away and gotten him behind you so I kind of wonder if he didn't overreact to Cletus first, or turn what could have been a scuffle into a fight. It's really hard to tell - not sure if you have more details that would help, or if you are certain it was Cletus's fault. Regardless, I would probably not let them play together again, at least not for a while as they're likely to remember the negative interaction.

 

I also think you may have an issue with overarousal. The line between arousal and aggression is very thin. You said you do step in sometimes when he's getting over the top. I think I would take a closer look at ANY behavior of his that is more than just appropriate play and give him time outs each time until he's calmed down. I wouldn't call him or say anything, I would just calmly grab him when it's convenient and remove him from the park (or if there's an area of the park where you can safely have him on lead where the other dogs won't bother you, you could do that). You could ask for some calming behaviors, even sits or downs and when his arousal level has come down, release him to play again. Over time, he should learn what type of play is appropriate. I was lucky enough to find a class specifically to teach appropriate play where the dogs, owners, and trainer followed this specific set of advice - not sure if you can find something like that in your area, but maybe look around. If not, consider going to the park only when there are one or two dogs you know are well socialized and that Cletus will play well with and just practice removing him when he becomes too aroused. And in the meantime, I would try to find a time when you can go when the park will be empty to get him actual exercise - playing fetch, tossing a frisbee, even running some laps yourself to get him going. I go to my dog park around 9 or 10 am and there is rarely anyone else there, or if someone comes, it will be a single person so I can decide whether it's a dog I will let play with mine or not.

 

Hope that helps.

[Guest maidmarcia]

The subject of dog parks seems to be a touchy and controversial subject on this board. I'm not sure if it's because American dog parks (the majority of posters here appear to be American ergo my generalization) are different than Canadian ones. Regardless, I've never once had a problem at my dog park. There have been situations (specifically with young boxers who can be a touch psychotic when it comes to playing) where another dog tells them off with a bark or a nip, but I've never *touch wood* seen a full on dog fight and my boy has never been involved in any hairy situations..

 

I do recognize that if you're going to a dog park where owners don't understand dogs or know how to read dog body language, you are placing yourself and the dog in a situation where things could quickly go awry. However, as I said, because I've never seen or been involved in such a situation, I continue to go to the dog park fairly consistently.

 

I did observe one woman who had started taking her dog to the park and was training her husky how to behave around other dogs. She placed it on a long lunge line (think 30') and if it started getting too hyper, she would simply reel it in and make it sit beside her until the dog calmed down. That seemed to work fairly effectively during quieter times at the dog park.

 

Avoiding the situation, aka removing the stimulus does NOT fix the behaviour. It simply masks it. Perhaps your trainer could go with you to the dog park once to observe the behaviour? Maybe as well you could start slowly by having your grey play with one other dog in a backyard and graduate up from there to large amounts?

 

Good luck.

[Guest Mom2Shiloh]

I cannot help but think of the dogs who were almost destroyed because of dog park incidents. The need for play and socialization is why they have Greyhound Play groups where the dogs can play Greyhound Style (which is radically different from the rough and tumble of labs, etc.) with muzzles on in small groups carefully socialized. Greyhounds are running/hunting dogs and not suited for dog parks at all. I honestly think that any trainer or behaviorist or Vet who recommends or insists on them should have a different line of work. Knowing dogs in general does NOT equate to knowing greyhound behavior. You can't teach a dog to play like a member of another breed -- i.e. Greyhounds are NOT going to play like labs or collies or little fuzzy dogs. Thousands of Greyhounds get training and plenty of long walks, go to play groups, have housemates -- all after their owners have studied Sighthound behavior.

 

I guess I'm not very tolerant, but I wouldn't adopt to a person who was going to insist on doing the dog park thing -- I will never change my opinion that they are disasters waiting to happen. Lest everyone forget, Lexus was almost put down and that ignorant woman's puppy was dead. I just don't see where that kind of thing is worth it --- for anyone concerned. And Lexus is far from a rare example.

[Guest tricolorhounds]

I think this thread can be closed. The dog has been returned.

[greytpups]

I hope he finds a forever home where he can be happy which includes positive reinforcement for appropriate behaviour or whatever training he needs...thanks for the update.

[Guest BrianRke]

I think this thread can be closed. The dog has been returned.

 

Great news! The dog is better off.