Guest kar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 scotch has started to growl at me when i try to take something from him such as my shoe or toilet tissue. he would always let me take it before. he has also started to get on the couch (never did for five years) and is being very obstinent about getting off. only difference in our life is that i have not been walking him i have been sick for two weeks. any ideas as to why his whole demeanor has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mariah Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'd have the vet check him over first thing; while that behavior doesn't necessarily mean there's an underlying medical issue, it seems weird that he would just start doing it after 5 years. Has he been checked for lyme recently? I've heard lots of stories about lyme-infected dogs suddenly exhibiting weird possessive behaviors, growling and generally acting ornery–many times even without presenting any of the other symptoms. Hoping that whatever it is, it has an easy solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 has not been tested for lyme but had lyme vaccine. and had bloodwork because he had surgery to remove pins from his leg about 2 mohths ago. he is also becomming more agressive when he is sleeping and one of the other dogs moves. always had this to an extent but now it is more so. could he sense that i am not feeling up to par? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsmom Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 has not been tested for lyme but had lyme vaccine. and had bloodwork because he had surgery to remove pins from his leg about 2 mohths ago. he is also becomming more agressive when he is sleeping and one of the other dogs moves. always had this to an extent but now it is more so. could he sense that i am not feeling up to par? Hmmmmm! About 15 months ago Minty started growling every time I moved while we were sleeping; (she sleeps next to me.) At first I thought maybe it was a combination of her not sleeping as well since I wasn't getting her out for walks or that maybe I was thunking her with the clunky cast on my foot & ankle! But one morning after we got up I went to pet her and she snapped at me; very unusual for her. So off to the vet we went. Turns out she had a very sore neck and any movement on the mattress was intensitying it. Might be worth a vet check! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJane Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 When he is on the couch, take a leash and take him off the couch. If he is growling, he should not be on the couch. How is he getting your shoe? You might need to pick things up off the floor. I agree that a vet visit is in order to make sure that nothing is wrong. You also should take him for training so that you can have a professional show you how to take things from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 it is not pain he just took a role of toilet tissue again and when i t ried to take it from him he growled and showed his teeth. if he continues to do this i don't know what i'll do i have grandchildren come over the house. he has been here five years but if he is jgoing to become more dominent = dont' know what i'll do. When he is on the couch, take a leash and take him off the couch. If he is growling, he should not be on the couch. How is he getting your shoe? You might need to pick things up off the floor. I agree that a vet visit is in order to make sure that nothing is wrong. You also should take him for training so that you can have a professional show you how to take things from him. never had a problem taking things from him before. i always tell him to drop it and he does. he no longer will do that. he is becoming more dominent i think after his surgery and wearing the ecollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamaha_gurl Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 How is his eye sight? Could be that he doesn't see you until you are "in his face"? Quote Greyhound Collars : www.collartown.ca Maggie (the human servant), with Miss Bella, racing name "A Star Blackieto" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 eyesight is fine he is even becoming more aggressive with my two little dogs who have been here with him for five years. everything seemed to change after his surgery and after myh female being diagnosed with kidney disease. she is on a special diet and he will stand by her waiting for her to leave her bowl insteand of eating his own food. i will not tolerate growling a me i have had dogs all of my life and never head that problem. i send him to the crate when he growls and it is not even easy getting him to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest verthib Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 eyesight is fine he is even becoming more aggressive with my two little dogs who have been here with him for five years. everything seemed to change after his surgery and after myh female being diagnosed with kidney disease. she is on a special diet and he will stand by her waiting for her to leave her bowl insteand of eating his own food. i will not tolerate growling a me i have had dogs all of my life and never head that problem. i send him to the crate when he growls and it is not even easy getting him to do that. I really really discourage using the crate as punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 i do not close the door i just send him in the other room. what do you suggest as punishment then. i cannot just allow him to growl at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PreciousMom Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Don't let him stand over the other dogs while eating, feed them in different areas. Muzzle him, until you can get him checked my the vet and figure out what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christinepi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 You say on the one hand the only difference is that you've not been walking him for two weeks and then on the other hand you say this started after the surgery 2 months ago--it might help to get that clarified for the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 it has gotton worsesince i have not been walking him. he is used to two walks per day and now he has had none. but i just can't take him now. he was very submissive when he had to wear the e collar after surgery. when that came off his attitude changed a bit also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 My apologies but I am getting more confused. I understand that things are worse in the last two weeks but when did this first start? Did he display these aggressive behaviors at all before surgery? Why do you say it is not pain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SusanP Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It sounds like there have been a lot of changes in his life lately. Can you get someone else to walk him twice a day for awhile and see if that helps? I'd also consider that if this started right after surgery, he may have some pain or other problem related to the surgery that is making him cranky--I'd be calling my vet to discuss this now if I were you. What kind of surgery was it? I have one hound who has always tended to do the kinds of things you're describing--It's not a new problem as it is with your dog. With my guy, I discovered early that punishment (shouting no, using a squirt bottle) backfired in a big way and made everything worse. What did help was doing more bonding activities together--like walking or playing ball with him in the yard. Catch him being good, and praise that so he gets some positive attention, not just negative attention. It sounds like your guy may be missing his "mommy time", and he's probably well aware that you are not too pleased with him in general lately. Quality time with you in some way certainly can't hurt anything, and it may help. We don't use crates, but my understanding is that they are not to be used for punishment, because a crate is supposed to be a place the dog *likes* to be in. At least for now, try "trading up" when you need to take something from him. Offer him a small treat, and when he takes it, simply remove the object you don't want him to have. No drama. At least for now that will help defuse the tension that is going on between you, and you may find that he simmers down after awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geostar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Say, this situation sounds more like a "alpha' problem. Find a AKC kennel club and see if you can take him to obedience classes. You have to be a part of this 'training'. Grace and I learned a lot those 10 weeks: I found out that she loved those treats which I had in my pocket, and would do what I told her for a treat! The grey is dominant over you, and you are under him. While it could be a medical problem, most likely you need to let him know 'who is boss'. You have to be a leader to him..someone he'll respect. Obedience classes are excellent for that very reason. I did this with our first greyhound, Grace, as she was a little timid and was scared of people. After going through two classes, she learned how to sit on command, lie down on command..all near other dogs of different breeds. Sitting and lying down with different dogs around is awkward for some greys. After her classes, she was a changed dog, and would greet people at the front door instead of running from them. Even when walking in the subdivision, she always felt she had to be petted by our neighbors, too. Teaching him to enter a tunnel, to bow and do other things will also be a learning experience for both of you. There is a book called "Second Hand Dog"..don't remember the author's name, but, she does stress the importance of being the 'boss' all the time. Otherwise, her dogs will try to take over command. Best wishes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Vet check. Don't punish the dog for growling. It sounds like you can avoid putting him in the position where he feels the need to growl -- put your things away so he doesn't get them, work on a "Drop it!" command using "trade up" training, clip the leash on when you need to move him somewhere (and start teaching him an "Off the couch!" command that you can then reward), separate the dogs when feeding. The important thing here is the rewards for good behavior. Sleeping is harder but might be that you want to use an ex-pen or similar to create a buffer zone between him and the other dogs at night, so you can all get some good rest until you figure out what's going on. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 i do not close the door i just send him in the other room. what do you suggest as punishment then. i cannot just allow him to growl at me. I don't suggest punishment at all. I would try to decipher what the root cause is & work to either eliminate it or help my dog accept it. Growling in the situations you describe could be for several different resources including resource guarding, fear, insecurity. If you are routinely punishing him then that might be why the behaviors are escalating. How do you respond when you find him with something he shouldn't have? What tone of voice are you using? What is your body posture? How are you approaching him as in head on or from an angle & how quickly? Could you be doing something he finds threatening, something that might trigger an already stressed, defensive or possessive dog to tip over into aggression? If so, it would benefit you to avoid doing that as you work on this problem. Later you may work on desensitizing him to those actions but for now I think it safest to avoid them. First I would get him to the vet for a full exam. Explain to your vet what is happening & that this is a dramatic change in behavior. I would also work to limit as much as possible the dog's access to those items that contribute to the problem. Close the bathroom doors so he cannot access the toilet paper. Pick & put away up shoes or other tempting items. I would start regular training to teach him to "Release" object he has in his mouth, to "Leave It" & more away. I would work hard not to use a harsh or threatening tone of voice or intimidating body posture. Though I am often rather authoritative, even stern, to the best of my ability I try not to yell, speak harshly or get physically rough at all. By physically rough I mean grabbing the dog or his collar & pulling, tugging, shoving, etc. Basically I try to avoid confrontational behavior that is quite prone to triggering the very behavior you wish to avoid. Am not saying you are doing this, just explaining. A training program will help you a lot, regardless of whether this has a physical cause or not. It will also help to burn of some of the energy he would normally expend during walks. A free, cheap & easy way to start is here http://www.sue-eh.ca/page24/page26/ and you may want to combine it with this "Leading the Dance" http://www.sue-eh.ca/page24/page8/ which is a version of a NILF program. Good luck & please let us know what the outcome of the vet visit is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeofNE Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Don't minimize the effects of NO exercise. He sounds like he's bored to me -- which doesn't really excuse the growling, but might explain the thievery. Can you ask a friend to walk him for you until you're up to it? Hire a dog walker? I cannot even imagine how George would react to not getting walked. If he has something you want to take away, offer him a dog biscuit in exchange. Why is he getting toilet paper rolls? Perhaps you need a new wastebasket in the bathroom with a lid? Quote Susan, Hamish, Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemma Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 You say it isn't pain; is that because he has been fully assessed by your vet or because you are just assuming this behaviour is not related to a pain response? The fact that this became an issue after the surgery indicates that there could be a connection. I would strongly recommend taking him in for a full check up. It is not at all uncommon for dogs experiencing pain to become more guarded over their space, especially in regards to other animals getting close to them when sleeping. Aside from a physical cause, he's likely bored. No walks for 2 weeks is a loooong time for a dog (and for people, too! I'd hate not being able to go out and about for that long). I'd think up some training you can do at home to keep him occupied. You should definitely teach him how to 'trade up' for his toys anyway, considering his recent resource guarding. Give him a low value toy and get some high value treats. Offer him a treat for the toy. Play this game often. If he's very defensive, you can start by just walking by and tossing treats while he has a toy. You want him to associate you being around 'his' stuff as a good thing. I'd also stop leaving toys (or toilet paper!) out all the time. Play time needs to be supervised until he can be trusted. Maybe look into some interactive toys? Or puzzle toys? Giving him something to focus on should help some with the boredom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest verthib Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If he's not been like that for the 5 years you've had him there is obviously something going on. Please bring him to the vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 scotch has always been the harder of my two greys to work with. he walks great on a leash except when there is another dog on a leash in the area. I have tried to work with him for years with teh watch me command, sometimes it works most times not. he has always had the sleep startle growl response. but he has never growled at me when i told him to drop something. and he has never stolen things such aas toilet paper and (thats my females job, but i can take something right out of her mouth). just now because i am on the computer he took a magazine off the counter and started to shred it into tiny little pieces. i know that he is probably very bored. he had a full workup 1 l/2 months ago when he had the screws removed from his leg from a previous track injury. i know he is probably very bored but i cannot let him run yet because of his leg. the vet said it would take a few months for the holes from the screws to fill in. scotch has not gotten on the couch for 5 years - not because i did not allow it (my female is always on the couch) but because he had no desire to be on it. I think a lot of his behavior changed when he started to get on the couch right after his surgery. i am hoping i feel good enough to walk him around the block at least soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest verthib Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 scotch has always been the harder of my two greys to work with. he walks great on a leash except when there is another dog on a leash in the area. I have tried to work with him for years with teh watch me command, sometimes it works most times not. he has always had the sleep startle growl response. but he has never growled at me when i told him to drop something. and he has never stolen things such aas toilet paper and (thats my females job, but i can take something right out of her mouth). just now because i am on the computer he took a magazine off the counter and started to shred it into tiny little pieces. i know that he is probably very bored. he had a full workup 1 l/2 months ago when he had the screws removed from his leg from a previous track injury. i know he is probably very bored but i cannot let him run yet because of his leg. the vet said it would take a few months for the holes from the screws to fill in. scotch has not gotten on the couch for 5 years - not because i did not allow it (my female is always on the couch) but because he had no desire to be on it. I think a lot of his behavior changed when he started to get on the couch right after his surgery. i am hoping i feel good enough to walk him around the block at least soon. Can you give him some chew toys (bully stick), or a kong with treats? Anything to help curb his boredom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 i know he is probably very bored but i cannot let him run yet because of his leg. the vet said it would take a few months for the holes from the screws to fill in. You've already gotten great advice, so I just wanted to address this. It shouldn't take "a few months" for the holes to fill in. 6-8 weeks should be more than enough time for the bone to fully heal. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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