What Was Found With Maria..

[Guest Geostar]

Well, the blood tests found that Maria has Polycythemia, and there's a 'hint' of Addison's disease, which because it is hard to diagnose, could be tick borne disease. So, she is on tick borne medication. Sorry..not good.

=star

[Batmom]

What were Maria's test results?

 

Greyhounds virtually never have polycythemia -- it's normal for them to have a very high hematocrit.

[Guest Geostar]

Hi..thanks for your note. I don't have them with me, but, her red blood cells are now higher than they should be. Her blood was very thick.

-star

[tbhounds]

That would be a very highly unlikely diagnose. Ghs can run a very high hct (PVC) and it will be even higher when dehydrated.

What was the platelet count? I'm not dissing your vet but, is he/she familiar with gh norms?

Edited January 9, 2012 by tbhounds

[MaryJane]

I agree with the others - the hematocrit runs high on greyhounds and your vet may well not be familiar with the levels found in greyhounds. I highly suggest that you have the blood test results sent to OSU (Ohio State University) - Greyhound project and have them provide some input before you start treatment.

[Guest Geostar]

Whoe guys! While I do appreciate your note, I know that she isn't jumping to any conclusions just yet. As I don't have the tests results down here, it is hard for anyone to say anything as to her statement without seeing the test. She does know that different diseases can give the same problem, and that a lot of diseases 'mimic' others. She has worked with greyhounds in the psat. We are first trying to rule out tick borne disease..as there are more variations to those diseases than anyone, here, knows! And, regardless of what people know or don't know, blood should not be that thick...but, here again, I don't have those numbers in front of me.

 

PS You know, years ago when my Min. Schnuazer swallowed two cuts of pine cones, the emergency vet informed me that she had Hepatis, and gave her an injection. Later, the following day, my regular vet was horrified that the dog received the injection because when the stomach is upset, it affects the whole system. My Gypsy could have died from that shot... Of course, she did not, but, that goes to show what happens at times. Even Giardia can cause intestinal distress to the point of infection!..and that, too, can cause other 'supposed' issues.

[robinw]

I don't know much about that stuff, but here is a link to a great publication called Greyhound Medical Idiocyncracies. It's a good reference.

Edited January 9, 2012 by robinw

[tbhounds]

I don't think anyone here is jumping to conclusions- you were the one who made the claim your vet diagnosed your hound with polycythemia- which was simply stated to you as a very rare condition in Ghs in which it is and Ghs are often misdiagnosed with it.

I understand we are only reading half of the story and I'm sure you are too.

http://www.greyhound-data.com/dir/446/Making_Sense_of_Blood_Work_in_Greyhounds.pdf

Edited January 9, 2012 by tbhounds

[Guest Geostar]

Say..I appreciate all of you and your remarks! As you know, it's hard to believe some things..

I know tick borne disease can do 'queer' things to the blood.., yet, I'll admit, I don't know everything.

I just wanted you all to know that my vet isn't 'jumping' to any conclusions right now, either.. Yeah, I'm sure all of you know that when something is suggested to you, it's not what you want to hear.. If I've stepped on anyone, please note that it's my concern that swinging..nothing more.

We love our greys..and yes, other dog breeds, too. Thanks, guys, for trying to 'steer' me in the right direction.

I know I'll be speaking to our vet soon.

=star

[Batmom]

Worth running that linked packet past your vet so that the two of you can determine whether your dog *is* dehydrated and/or polycythemic or neither one. If she's dehydrated and/or polycythemic and still drinking like a fish but producing lots of dilute urine, that's very very different from simply drinking and peeing a lot, without dehydration or polycythemia.

 

As a point of reference, one day I had to see a vet who wasn't terribly familiar with greyhounds. He looked at my dog's bloodwork and said, "Polycythemia!" We went back to the practice's reference library and I showed him the passage in Merck (http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/10900.htm -- see the end of that first paragraph) indicating that greyhound PCVs of 60% or more are normal. My girl regularly had a PCV/HCT in the upper 60s%. She didn't have polycythemia.

[greyhead]

FWIW, one of our greys had very thick blood too,consistently, though not an abnormally high number of RBC's for a greyhound, and he did turn out to have Babesia. After treatment for it, he has never shown that thickness problem since.

 

But you don't mention that your vet sent off for tick titers. Is that being done, or is he just being given something like doxycycline to see what happens?

[Guest Geostar]

Hi..thanks for your note. Oh yes, our vet did have a tick titer done, but, that does not mean that Maria does not have it. From what I understand, diarrhea, and increased thirst also is an indication of tick borne disease. We are praying and hoping that that is ALL she has. As the previous owner did not use any flea/tick medication during the year they had the dog, one wonders.. The vets we have here have seen plenty of tick borne disease in all breeds..not just greyhounds. And, as you know, thick blood can also be a sign..as tick borne diseases messes with the blood as well.

 

I do have a great friend whose grey does have Addison's disease. The treatment is expensive and that dog has been through a lot.

 

How is your grey now? Some tick borne diseases resurface now and then..as another friend has that problem..

 

=star

 

PS Sometimes, when your grey has the vet concerned over a number of concerns' which he/she may have, one way is to try medication for one problem to see if that may be the problem. Keep in mind that tick borne diseases often 'mimic' other diseases AND vice versa. This is also true with us humans. It is one way to 'rule' out certain diseases.

[Batmom]

I don't know what "thick blood" is -- that isn't a medical term, unless it refers to dehydration or a high hematocrit (the latter is normal in greyhounds).

 

The hallmark of the more common tick diseases isn't "thick blood," dehydration, or high hematocrit/PCV. It's a reduced number of platelets and/or red blood cells.

[Guest Geostar]

Okay..I stand corrected. The bottom line is this: my grey is ill. I don't know anymore at the present.

[tbhounds]

I don't know what "thick blood" is -- that isn't a medical term, unless it refers to dehydration or a high hematocrit (the latter is normal in greyhounds).

 

The hallmark of the more common tick diseases isn't "thick blood," dehydration, or high hematocrit/PCV. It's a reduced number of platelets and/or red blood cells.

Agreed-- that's why I asked earlier what the platelet count was.

[Guest Geostar]

Of course! But, there are other clinical signs: diarrhea, vomitting, increased urination, unexplained high fever and thirst, and the list goes on depending on which tick borne disease it is.....

I'm just hoping her problem is tick borne and can get over it in good time! I hope the best for any of your greys which have this problem..

[macoduck]

Geostar, my husband has polycythemia. We have not yet found the root cause of it. He's on a chemo med and a blood thinner. He had no symptoms whatsoever. It was accidentally discovered during blood testing for acute onset diverticulitis (which was not the cause of the polycythemia).

[greyhead]

Conditions, like TBD's, that involve larger-than-normal numbers of antibodies circulating (and deteriorating) in the bloodstream result in thicker blood. I don't know the technical term for that, but for me it's more important to be aware of the phenomenon than to know its name.

 

Here's the first link I stumbled on regarding "thick blood": http://www.tree.com/...plications.aspx

 

Here's the second one. It's called "hypercoagulation": http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C546009.html You'll notice it mentions Lyme disease.

Edited January 10, 2012 by greyhead

[Batmom]

Here's the first link I stumbled on regarding "thick blood": http://www.tree.com/...plications.aspx

 

Waldenstrom's is a totally different type of condition from the polycythemia mentioned in the original post. The symptom sometimes seen in Waldenstrom's condition is called hyperviscosity -- and you need a specific test for that, not an HCT/PCV. A dog could have it, but it's pretty rare. It, too, involves *reduced* numbers of platelets and red blood cells, not polycythemia (increased number of red blood cells).

 

In tick diseases, you don't normally have gross overproduction of antibodies, just production of antibodies.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Batmom

[greyhead]

Here's the first link I stumbled on regarding "thick blood": http://www.tree.com/...plications.aspx

 

Waldenstrom's is a totally different type of condition from the polycythemia mentioned in the original post. The symptom sometimes seen in Waldenstrom's condition is called hyperviscosity -- and you need a specific test for that, not an HCT/PCV. A dog could have it, but it's pretty rare. It, too, involves *reduced* numbers of platelets and red blood cells, not polycythemia (increased number of red blood cells).

 

In tick diseases, you don't normally have gross overproduction of antibodies, just production of antibodies.

Just using the first link to support that blood thickening does occur -- for whatever reason.

 

Also didn't mean to imply that there was gross overproduction of antibodies. The mere production of more antibodies, for whatever reason, adds to the population of solids in the blood.

 

Must we argue about everything? It usually seems to me that you don't even *try* to understand what I'm getting at. It's not about me, although it annoys me, of course. It's about discovering what may be true.

[Batmom]

The OP said the dog was diagnosed with polycythemia. If the dog has polycythemia -- or an elevated HCT/PCV that the vet is considering polycythemia as a symptom or diagnosis, then it's extremely unlikely that the dog has a disease for which hyperviscosity is a symptom since those diseases mostly involve reduced HCT/PCV and show other significant blood anomalies. It is possible to have polycythemia to the degree that you also have hyperviscosity, but polycythemia is a really suspicious diagnosis in a greyhound.

 

I get that blood can have some odd properties in particular diseases, but those don't seem relevant to OP's case. The number of additional antibodies or other proteins you need for blood to become that viscous is usually not seen except in the blood cancers -- things like leukemia, lymphoma, Waldenstrom's. You don't generally see it in normal infective processes.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Batmom

[greyhead]

We saw it (the blood thickened to the point it was so hard to process on the vet's equipment that it always had to be sent out to the lab) in Shane, until he was treated for Babesia. So what's generally true isn't always true. I'm not saying that this dog has or doesn't have anything in particular, just saying that thickened blood happens and may mean *something*, something which it would be useful to figure out.

 

 

[Batmom]

It would be interesting to know what the specific finding with Shane's blood was.

 

Again, in this case, the OP cited polycythemia, which is an unusual diagnosis in a greyhound.

[greyhead]

All we know is that he had what the blood called "sludgy blood" -- her term, speaking to a layman. (IIRC, you *really* hated that term!) No explanation was offered or treatment sought. Later (two years ago) we found and treated the Babesia, and the sludgy blood stopped being a factor. Now his minor blood work can be run on in-house vet equipment since the viscosity is normal.

 

 

[Batmom]

Yep, "sludgy blood" is not a technical term. It doesn't tell us what the unusual finding was. Usually when blood is more viscous than expected, it's due to either simple dehydration or a failure of the anticoagulant in the tube. Or, in people, cold agglutinins -- don't know how common those are in dogs.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Batmom