Dandi - Good Update 1/3/2012

[greyhndz]

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I'm not a fan of the hydrolyzed diets. I do like the Royal Canin/IVD line of novel protein diets which come in rabbit, venison, duck, or whitefish, and have pretty good ingredients for a prescription food.

 

The IVD must be what she was talking about when she mentioned a rabbit alternative. She suggested, in order of preference, the Purina low-fat (don't remember the initials), then either Royal Canin HP or the Z/D, and last choice is the rabbit, only because it is higher in fat. He's been eating each kibble out of my hand. I have to head over to my vet's office tomorrow to see what she has available.

 

Jennifer, I agree about the HP diets - I cannot conceive of any nutritional value to these foods.The ingredients are repulsive. I would much rather home-cook. I've been reading through Donald Strombeck's book on Home-Prepared diets, and he does offer alternatives using eggs or egg whites, cottage cheese, tofu and tapioca <gag> as protein sources. I'm going to run it up the veterinary flagpole and see if anyone salutes.

 

I found this to be a very interesting article, and very eye-opening re: "Prescription Diet" defined. I was also thinking about consulting a veterinary nutritionist for a customized dietary plan; several of them have websites and will provide this type of service. I've got a lot of research to do on both Rx and OTC foods as well as home-prepared.

 

ETA:Another good articleabout Rx diet ingredients, and alternatives.

 

I specifically asked the IM vet about using budesonide to try to minimize side-effects, and she said it could be a possibility once he's stabilized, but when he's coming off an acute flare she felt it was a better plan to start him on systemic. She did say that if the side effects are excessive, she'll make a change and consider budesonide at that time. Dandi's already got hind end weakness between his back and his metabolic instability, and if the pred is making that worse, she'll have to come up with another plan.

 

The canned-food cookies is a brilliant idea! Thank you!

 

I don't believe any of the commercial foods (even the LIDs) will have a low-enough fat content. She suggests that the upper limit for fat be 3.5g/kc. I fully expect that once Dandi is on this type of diet, he will poop out a puff of powder.

 

The bile-acid test was normal, and he received his first steroid injection tonight. STAND BACK!!!

Edited January 5, 2012 by greyhndz

[tbhounds]

I home cooked for one of my hounds and while it was a lot of work I would do it again in a heartbeat. I consulted with Dr Rebecca Remillard at Angell Memorial (she does phone consults)-well worth the $. The only snag may be finding a novel protein to cook. Do you know a hunter that would sell you some venison??

[Remolacha]

So glad to hear Dandi is on his way "back"

[krissn333]

I cooked for Sutra and have cooked for Ace and Pinky too...I'd rather do that than go with any of the prescription type foods. Thankfully our old vet and our new one are completely fine with that. They offer the prescription foods as an option, but, when I told them I preferred to home cook, they were just fine with it. I always laughed at how involved I'd get with making sure they got what they needed though - if only I were so dedicated to feeding myself as well

 

Glad to hear that Mr. Dandi is feeling a bit more dandy

[greyhndz]

I home cooked for one of my hounds and while it was a lot of work I would do it again in a heartbeat. I consulted with Dr Rebecca Remillard at Angell Memorial (she does phone consults)-well worth the $. The only snag may be finding a novel protein to cook. Do you know a hunter that would sell you some venison??

 

I don't -- venison would also not be a novel protein for Dandi, nor would duck. The only meats Dandi has not been exposed to are rabbit, kangaroo, and perhaps pheasant. The other alternative would be egg or cottage cheese. I think I'll check into the vet nutritionist at Angell - that would be the wisest move, and thank you for the heads-up! Do I need a referral from my vet?

 

I have gone to multiple websites, including the manufacturers', and I am unable to find ingredient lists for Royal Canin or Purina Rx foods. Bizarre.

 

Just for a laugh: My IM vet also treats iggy Buddy, who has eosinophilic bronchitis. He, too, was started on steroids initially, and what I thought was going to be an 11 year old oldster became a hyperactive wild man. I'd told the vet that I eagerly awaited the time that he was on his inhaler and off prednisone. Yesterday, when we were talking about what Dandi would turn into on pred, she laughed when she talked about lunatic Buddy when he had been on steroids.

 

Only, I had to tell her that once Buddy was off steroids ..... nothing changed. Craziness is normal for Buddy!

 

I always laughed at how involved I'd get with making sure they got what they needed though - if only I were so dedicated to feeding myself as well

 

Glad to hear that Mr. Dandi is feeling a bit more dandy

 

OMG, Yes!! Same here! The closest I come to cooking for myself is putting leftover pizza into the oven. Spending time in the butcher aisle is totally foreign to me - I've been a vegetarian most of my life.

[JJNg]

Hope Dandi is continuing to improve, and that the steroids help without causing any significant side effects!

 

I found this to be a very interesting article, and very eye-opening re: "Prescription Diet" defined. ....

 

ETA:Another good articleabout Rx diet ingredients, and alternatives.

Ok, the rest of this post may be more appropriate under Soap Box, but these articles hit a nerve, and I feel the need to express my thoughts on this topic.

 

It's true that 'prescription diets' do not techically require a prescription. That's probably about the most accurate piece of information from these articles. The idea that prescription diets are a "marketing agreement" between the manufacturer and vets so that vets can "achieve a much higher mark-up on these foods" is simply wrong. I don't know how the manufacturers price their prescription foods, but they are expensive even at wholesale price, and even the MSRP has a significantly lower markup than typically used for most other products and medications. IMO, if a company's goal was to maximize profits, it's ridiculous to think they would choose to market prescription foods that are only appropriate to feed to a small percentage of dogs with specific diseases. Of course, any business is going to try to increase profits - that doesn't mean they aren't also providing a valuable service or product.

 

The first article seems to misleadingly imply that Dr. Morris created prescription diets "to develop a meat-free diet, necessary to feed dogs amidst food rationing during World War II." Although I haven't heard this before, maybe it's true, but that's not how prescription diets were started. Dr. Morris was also behind the respected animal health charity, Morris Animal Foundation. Here's a brief synopsis that describes the beginning of the idea to use specific dietary formulas to manage disease (which is how I define a prescription diet):

 

Maybe I'm gullible and unknowingly being manipulated by the food companies, but I believe that the research and quality control that goes into producing these foods are what make them more expensive than OTC diets. I do agree that some of the formulas may be based on outdated information, but the food manufacturing companies are involved in a lot of ongoing research and do change and update their formulas when new information is discovered.

 

I get a bit offended by how often I hear that vets are bribed and indoctrinated as students by the food companies because they fund nutrition courses and give us free food. While the free food was a nice perk to have during vet school, I believe I am still able to evaluate information for myself when deciding what to recommend to my patients. I don't blindly recommend products by a particular company because they gave me freebies when I was in school.

 

And is it really such a bad thing that large manufacturers contribute to the profession they market to through scholarships, grants, free product, and sponsoring continuing education conferences? I don't know of any vet who sells Hill's products simply because they got some free food from them, or received a scholarship, or saw their name listed as a sponsor of a national conference. Come on, do people really believe vets are that stupid and easily manipulated?

 

Commercial diets, whether prescription or OTC, maybe not be the ideal way to feed pets, but realistically speaking, it is what most dog owners choose out of ease and convenience. Maybe that makes most of us lazy, but I don't cook for myself, and I don't have the time or desire to cook for my dogs either. I do admire all of you who are willing to feed home-prepared diets. For those of us who won't home-prepare food, for pets with particular health problems, prescription diets often give us the best alternative for management.

 

I think it's been pretty well established that restricting phosphorus is important and will extend survival of pets in renal failure. The prescription diets (like Hill's k/d or Purina NF) are the only way to achieve this with a commercially prepared food. The joint diets (ie. j/d) are formulated to contain much higher concentrations of omega-3 fatty acids than can be practically achieved through fish oil capsules. IMO, the pets who show marked improvement in mobility after starting on the diets are proof of their benefits. I actually don't recommend j/d much for dogs, but have used it in a few cats, as they can often be difficult to get to take pills and supplements, and are particularly sensitive to NSAIDs.

 

Hill's newest Prescription Diet (y/d) is an exciting alternative to treating hyperthyroid cats with diet alone. For cats that are difficult for oral meds, this may be a much more effective way to treat. The week that this new diet became available, a Good Samaritan brought an emaciated stray cat to our clinic. We took her in, tested her and confirmed severe hyperthyroidism (T4 off the scale), and started her on the new prescription diet as a test. She is now doing great, having almost doubled her weight after being on the food only for 2-3 months.

 

Cases like this where I see an obvious clinical improvement that supports the research results are why I recommend certain prescription diets. Not because of any marketing ploys by the manufacturers.

 

Now, if someone wanted to start a company that makes 'prescription diets' geared toward specific diseases, backed up their formulas with research and clinical trials, and uses wholesome, organic ingredients, I'd bet they'd get quite a following. However, they'd have to use some marketing strategies to get the word out there that such products are available, and then they might be accused of trying to manipulate vets just to make a profit.

[Batmom]

I have to agree with most of jjng's post above. My vets don't blindly recommend particular foods either and have always been willing to help me formulate a homeprepped version of any prescription food we seem to need. Sometimes I decline that service and buy the prescription stuff because it works better -- for example, I cannot make a food that goes through a post-abdominal-surgery dog as well as I/D. I can make a great kidney diet and a great low sodium diet, but the canned I/D beats me every time.

 

Where needed -- severe allergy/intolerance, no novel proteins available or tolerated -- the hydrolyzed protein diets are true life savers. The ingredients lists are never going to look fabulous because it doesn't matter that much where the protein came from. What matters is that it's broken down into small enough pieces that it doesn't excite an allergic response -- basic principle of immunology turned into something practical for our pets. Truly cool.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Batmom