Feeding Raw, Introducing Organs....

[Guest FrankieWylie]

We've been introducing raw foods to the boys for the past few weeks and wanted to start venturing into adding organs. I've read where you should do it slowly and not give them a whole bunch all at once.

 

What is an appropriate amount to start with? I picked up some chicken gizzards and hearts today. Do I need to separate those organs out from each other or can I use a small amount of each?

 

What about stomach? There was some pig stomach at the grocer that I grab just because I was fascinated by the idea of it! Has anyone fed pig stomach (haven't googled it yet)?

 

Also, I got some goat meat to introduce as their new meat as it also has some bone in it. Any one have any bad experiences with it?

 

 

Lastly, does anyone do a modified raw/kibble diet?

[spottydog]

I've transitioned from straight raw to 1 3/4 cups kibble with a topping of raw at each meal. He gets chicken with bones, usually a small piece of liver or other organ or ground beef that has organ meat in it (the butcher calls it pet trim). Occasionally, when I'm unorganized he gets the expensive professional raw patties. I don't sweat the details dailly. If I'm out of liver, I'll give him some the next day. Same with bones. I mix and match organs and haven't had any repercussions. He's not overly fussy about kidney and neither am I. I have to cook it and hand feed it to him at the end of the meal.

I started him on raw as we had appetite issues and diarrea, but now he's eating like a pig and I found a kibble he can tolerate. He enjoys the raw so much that I will probably keep him on it partially. I am no long term expert, however.

[Charla]

I don't feed totally raw but I usually give a handful of mixed gizzards and hearts with a turkey neck, or put several of each on top of kibble. The only organ meat I have to watch out for is liver, I have to give it with bony stuff or they get fairly loose poo. I go to an Hispanic market and get offal, something called pepitas which is mixed intestines and stomach from the look of it and chicken feet ... the hounds go ape over chicken feet!

 

I've added "a little of this and a little of that" to kibble , or to a chicken quarter with out separating anything. If they caught their own they would eat the whole thing in one or two big gulps, including feathers or fur.

 

Again, I don't feed totally raw, this is just my experience.

[Guest KennelMom]

heart is really just a kind of muscle meat and I've found most dogs don't have any issue with gizzards either...or tripe. It's mostly liver that will loosen their stool if given too much. Most stomach and intestinal-type stuff you find at the store or grocer has been cleaned really well and/or bleached...really not much nutritional benefit there. You want green/unprocessed if you can get it.

 

We've never fed goat meat, but are fencing in a couple acres for some goats...and they'll eventually be dog food. I don't see why it would be a problem unless you're giving them too much, too soon.

 

We don't mix a raw/kibble diet. One or the other. We have one dog that eats kibble due to a chicken allergy and the fact that I don't have time/energy to do a specialized raw diet for her (busy being pregnant right now), the rest all eat raw.

Edited December 17, 2011 by KennelMom

[Guest FrankieWylie]

So, tripe....another word for stomach, even if it's not from a cow?

 

Just wanna be sure I have everything straight I don't know why, but I am so excited about the raw aspect. I am also one of those people that would totally go on a world tour of bizarre foods for myself LOL!

 

I just know that our lifestyle will not lend itself to feeding 100% raw 100% of the time. I don't want to totally jack them up if we mix things up a bit

 

I totally LOVE the fact that bone hardens up their stool lol. Especially since we've got one who is still occasionally dropping deuces in the house. I think he is a "poop marker", I really do :|

[Guest greyhound9797]

We've been introducing raw foods to the boys for the past few weeks and wanted to start venturing into adding organs. I've read where you should do it slowly and not give them a whole bunch all at once. What is an appropriate amount to start with? I picked up some chicken gizzards and hearts today. Do I need to separate those organs out from each other or can I use a small amount of each?

Heart, stomach/tripe (no matter who it comes from, it's tripe...read more on tripe below), gizzards and tongue are all muscle meats, not organ. Everything, whether it's a new protein or a new organ, should be started in small amounts. It's just that liver and organ are only 5% each of the diet so their beginning amounts can be very tiny, like 1 inch x 1 inch. Another poster said that liver is usually the thing to give loose stools and it's true. My first grey couldn't eat a lot of heart, either, so I just made sure that her entire meal didn't consist of just heart.

 

To me, chicken gizzards and hearts are too small and expensive to feed alone. Maybe every few months I'll pick up a package just to add some some different texture but they're over a dollar per pound and I can get big, complicated meat for less than that so I tend to stick with a larger piece of protein.

 

Any tripe/stomach you get from a grocery store or butcher is going to be for human consumption and will be bleached and white. There are very few nutrients in it so it's a waste of money to buy for your dog. The type of tripe you want can only be obtained from a meat packing facility, farmer or producer of raw pet food or in cans from a boutique pet supply store. Tripette is a brand name.

 

What about stomach? There was some pig stomach at the grocer that I grab just because I was fascinated by the idea of it! Has anyone fed pig stomach (haven't googled it yet)? Also, I got some goat meat to introduce as their new meat as it also has some bone in it. Any one have any bad experiences with it?

Wow, you have a very diverse grocery! Where do you live? Pig stomach, cow stomach, goat stomach, chicken stomach...they're all good. I got a pigs head from a Greek butcher. Just about any part of an animal can be fed except for the weight bearing bones of large ungulates (think knuckle or leg bones of cows, elk, etc. Ungulates are hooved animals).

 

Raw IS exciting, isn't it? I remember when I first started out...it was like being a new relationship, I couldn't wait to feed my dog!

 

Lastly, does anyone do a modified raw/kibble diet?

Nope, all raw, all the time. Why does your lifestyle prohibit you from feeding 100% raw?

 

Sandra

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Sandra, I live in Athens, GA and it was at a locally owned grocer, Bell's. Much more selection than our Publix or Kroger! They also had chicken feet, so I got some of those too!

 

While I cannot say for certain, I don't think the pig stomach we have is bleached. BUT, I didn't look closely at it. I'll have to pull it out tomorrow and see

 

Our local Mexican market sells pig heads too. I stopped by there on the way home to see what off the wall goodies they had. I was in heaven

 

We have not made the commitment to 100% raw yet because of the cost and that my husband won't let the boys eat it in the house....YES I am still working on it. The thought of raw meat "germs" being in the house skeeves him out a little. But, I am constantly reminding him that he lets them lick his body and they lick their butts. So, maybe one day :)He is starting to see how well they are becoming at eating the raw bones, etc so fast, so maybe putting them in their bowl will be an option, who knows. Also, with a very hectic house and schedule, I don't promise we will always be able to remember thaw something out. I know somethings can be given frozen, but I just don't trust that right now we can be 100% committed to raw and the follow through. It really comes down to us making the commitment and altering our lifestyle....where aren't there yet. Slowly but surely, I'm sure we will get there!

[Trihounds]

If your DH is worried about bacteria spreading, one option might be to train the dogs to eat at their bowls and / or over a towel, thereby minimizing any sprawl.

 

I use the same argument to house guests who freak when they see our dogs eating raw and they ask about licking and bacteria....I remind them all dogs lick their butts and will clean themselves as necessary and that their waste is most likely an equivalent petri dish.

 

As for scheduling, freezing, thawing, processing...yup, it takes longer than pouring from a bag. Our household as well is probably as busy as it gets shuttling kids to sports and two spouses working full time but the benefits of raw are significant...you'll find a routine and in a few months wonder what you were fussing about!

 

Enjoy it, the changes in your dogs will likely be amazing....Good luck!

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Looky looky who got to eat their beef necks inside

 

Untitled by *just_me*, on Flickr

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Oh, and Bruciedad, thanks! Right now we have two ice cream buckets that we have put approximately what they should eat per week (pound wise). We are just sort of "winging it" with what we give them and stuff. Hopefully as we research more locally and find better deals, we can purchase more in bulk and what not.

 

I am kinda taking the approach I did with my kids too LOL....I never wanted them to rely on nursing 100%....I had too many friends that could NOT leave their babies because of nursing, I don't have the lifestyle for that either LOL. So, they got bottles from the get go. I figure if we leave the boys guessing....kibble or meat....we HOPEFULLY won't find ourselves with raw snobs and being up the creek

[4My2Greys]

When I fed raw I too fed both raw and kibble both to save time and cut cost. I would feed kibble in the morning when things were more rushed having to get ready for work and raw in the evenings. That way it was easier to figure out how much to feed. In the mornings I would feed what I normally had been giving them kibble-wise and in the evenings they would get half the recommended daily requirement of raw. I had one that refused to eat it outside. I thought he just didn't like raw turns out he didn't like eating it out in the grass. I found out one evening when he swiped a turkey neck off the counter and ran to his bed and started devouring it. This after about 3 weeks of trying to coax him to eat one outside. I just did as others suggested and laid down a towel. I will say I've never seen my dogs more excited about eating than when I fed raw.

[Guest greyhound9797]

Sandra, I live in Athens, GA and it was at a locally owned grocer, Bell's. Much more selection than our Publix or Kroger! They also had chicken feet, so I got some of those too!

Gosh, Athens...my friend Kerri would say "How 'bout them Dawgs?!?!" You will definitely find a better selection at a family-owned store than you will a chain and they'll also work with you on prices I bet. Chicken feet are a great choice (just wait till you hear the crunching). Lot's of glucosamine in those freaky looking things!

 

While I cannot say for certain, I don't think the pig stomach we have is bleached. BUT, I didn't look closely at it. I'll have to pull it out tomorrow and see

It might not look it but it will be. It has to be for human consumption. If you had a raw/fresh/green one to compare to one you'd find in a store you'd definitely be able to see (and SMELL) a difference.

 

Our local Mexican market sells pig heads too. I stopped by there on the way home to see what off the wall goodies they had. I was in heaven

Damn, you DO have variety! If you're like me, you'll have so much fun finding different foods to feed.

 

We have not made the commitment to 100% raw yet because of the cost and that my husband won't let the boys eat it in the house....YES I am still working on it. The thought of raw meat "germs" being in the house skeeves him out a little. But, I am constantly reminding him that he lets them lick his body and they lick their butts. So, maybe one day :)He is starting to see how well they are becoming at eating the raw bones, etc so fast, so maybe putting them in their bowl will be an option, who knows. Also, with a very hectic house and schedule, I don't promise we will always be able to remember thaw something out. I know somethings can be given frozen, but I just don't trust that right now we can be 100% committed to raw and the follow through. It really comes down to us making the commitment and altering our lifestyle....where aren't there yet. Slowly but surely, I'm sure we will get there!

First things first...dogs are way better than husbands so you need to make a choice. Just kidding I'm married to a man who gets queasy at the sight of blood so he was not so keen on the idea of feeding raw but 4 years later he can accept most of it, just not fresh fish, tripe or organs.

 

Are you able to feed outside? I have a fenced yard so that's where MeMe eats. So convenient and no clean up! Like BrucieDad said, you can train them to eat on a towel (great picture!) or some people use a vinyl shower curtain or table cloth which can be sprayed off and easily cleaned. Unless he's a vegetarian, you have the same germs when you cook a meat meal. I find it amusing that it's typically the ("strong") men who are grossed out about germs and not ("weak") women. No offense to the guys but between child birth, changing diapers and monthly cycles I think we've seen it all.

 

We don't have human kids so I can't say I understand about having a hectic schedule but I agree wholeheartedly with BrucieDad's comment "you'll find a routine and in a few months wonder what you were fussing about! Enjoy it, the changes in your dogs will likely be amazing....Good luck!" It might take an extra 15 minutes a week but if you plan your own meals in advance (even if you don't) you can take a few minutes to plan your dogs'. I have a huge freezer in the garage so I can buy in bulk and take things out to thaw once a week but I also always keep some ground meat on hand in case I completely lose my mind and forget to take something out for MeMe. I bought 50 one pound chubs of ground turkey and they thaw in about 30-45 minutes if you put them in some water.

 

Best of luck to you and your fur kids!

 

Sandra in FL

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Sandra! Thank you so much for your help!

 

Think you could help even more? Honestly, the MORE I read, the more confused I get LOL!

 

There is so much information, and then the language of it all confuses.

 

 

Heart, gizzards, etc are muscles. Where do those fall in the 80/10/10?

 

RMBs.....what cuts/types of meat ARE RMB? I'm so confused.

 

I'm reading liver should make up 5% of the 10% organ allotment. What are other recommended organ parts?

 

What does a day's worth of meal look like?

 

 

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I suddenly found myself on information overload :| Now I can't process anything. Damn brain.

 

 

YES....I am so looking forward to the crazy stuff I can find that they can eat. I swear, given the chance to be on bizarre foods myself, I'd be all over it!

As far as the husband....I laugh my ass off at him because he is a scientist. He has played with e.Coli, salmonella, and worse. He is not in the slightest bothered by blood, guts, children being born, etc. But something about them eating it "in the house" skeeves him. BUT....BUT.....he just said "I can get down with them eating it in their crates." ahhhhh, WINNING! He also admitted that it was more the "clean up" process and not the germs. He's such a girl.

[Guest KennelMom]

Sandra, I live in Athens, GA and it was at a locally owned grocer, Bell's. Much more selection than our Publix or Kroger! They also had chicken feet, so I got some of those too!

 

While I cannot say for certain, I don't think the pig stomach we have is bleached. BUT, I didn't look closely at it. I'll have to pull it out tomorrow and see

 

Our local Mexican market sells pig heads too. I stopped by there on the way home to see what off the wall goodies they had. I was in heaven

 

We have not made the commitment to 100% raw yet because of the cost and that my husband won't let the boys eat it in the house....YES I am still working on it. The thought of raw meat "germs" being in the house skeeves him out a little. But, I am constantly reminding him that he lets them lick his body and they lick their butts. So, maybe one day :)He is starting to see how well they are becoming at eating the raw bones, etc so fast, so maybe putting them in their bowl will be an option, who knows. Also, with a very hectic house and schedule, I don't promise we will always be able to remember thaw something out. I know somethings can be given frozen, but I just don't trust that right now we can be 100% committed to raw and the follow through. It really comes down to us making the commitment and altering our lifestyle....where aren't there yet. Slowly but surely, I'm sure we will get there!

 

 

Since your in Athens, you may want to find a place that distributes Blue Ridge Beef: http://blueridgebeef.com/distributors-raw-pet-food.html

 

I get our green tripe from them...it's the only place I've been able to find green tripe reliably and in any quantity. The natural mix is also nice - a blend of beef offal. We buy a case of 5lb tubes and it comes frozen, but they also sell it in smaller tubes for people that are feeding fewer dogs. I think it's, like, $36 for a 30lb box of the tripe. Natural mix is a couple dollars more, IIRC. Good products and we've been using them for a few years.

Edited December 20, 2011 by KennelMom

[Guest sheila]

 

 

We've never fed goat meat, but are fencing in a couple acres for some goats...and they'll eventually be dog food.

 

 

Totally OT but for some reason I just can't envision the goats becoming dog food. Instead I envision a post with fancy new digs for the goats who will all have names and personalities.......

[Guest KennelMom]

 

 

We've never fed goat meat, but are fencing in a couple acres for some goats...and they'll eventually be dog food.

 

 

Totally OT but for some reason I just can't envision the goats becoming dog food. Instead I envision a post with fancy new digs for the goats who will all have names and personalities.......

 

 

like our chickens

 

I don't care for goat meat, but I don't find goats endearing as pets either...the sheep that Ken wants on the other hand...THOSE would be hard to send off to become food.

[Guest FrankieWylie]

 

Since your in Athens, you may want to find a place that distributes Blue Ridge Beef: http://blueridgebeef.com/distributors-raw-pet-food.html

 

I get our green tripe from them...it's the only place I've been able to find green tripe reliably and in any quantity. The natural mix is also nice - a blend of beef offal. We buy a case of 5lb tubes and it comes frozen, but they also sell it in smaller tubes for people that are feeding fewer dogs. I think it's, like, $36 for a 30lb box of the tripe. Natural mix is a couple dollars more, IIRC. Good products and we've been using them for a few years.

 

 

Thanks! I will have to check them out

 

 

Funny, someone FB messaged me today that they were going to be raising goats. I asked if they had plans to slaughter them, I'd pay up But alas, he is using them as lawn mowers!

[Guest greyhound9797]

There is so much information, and then the language of it all confuses.

Have you read my raw feeding basics thread? It's lengthy (13 pages) but the first post sums everything up nicely. http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/242512-raw-feeding-basics/

 

Heart, gizzards, etc are muscles. Where do those fall in the 80/10/10?

In the 80% along with meat.

 

RMBs.....what cuts/types of meat ARE RMB? I'm so confused.

The phrase RMB/raw meaty bone is a bit archaic and confusing. You don't want to buy a "raw meaty bone", you want to buy meat with some bone. Or all meat AND necks or backs. What I usually use is chicken quarters (or thighs and/or legs, whichever is on sale) or bone-on chicken breasts. It's not exactly 80/10 but you don't need exact percentages. I buy big pork picnics (I forget the other name for them...butts or shoulders I think) then cut the meat into meal sized portions. For the bone content I'll throw in a chicken back or turkey or chicken neck. You shouldn't have any problem buying these items if you can find all the funky stuff. Chicken necks could be swallowed whole if you have gulpers so turkey or duck necks are a better choice. I've found that MeMe needs more than 10% bone or she gets very loose stool. The 80/10/5/5 is a guide to start at but you should adjust based on what your dogs tolerate.

 

I'm reading liver should make up 5% of the 10% organ allotment. What are other recommended organ parts?

Brain, lung, sweetbreads, kidney are items that I feed and pretty much cover what you'll be able to find.

 

What does a day's worth of meal look like?

\

I know this won't help you but the answer is...it varies from person to person and dog to dog. Like I mentioned, MeMe needs more bone, maybe almost 20% but my first grey, Piper, did fine on 10%. I'll go 2 weeks without feeding any organ then I'll feed it every day for a week. You really don't need to follow a strict routine but I'm sure many people do. In the beginning I kept a spreadsheet (back when I fed more of a BARFer diet of veggies and fruits) then realized it was a waste of time then I realized that dogs don't need that stuff so it became even easier. If you're unsure of yourself (which is normal but not necessary - we've all been there! ) you could get a cheap scale (I got a postage scale from Office Depot for less than $10 that goes up to 2 lbs) and measure everything out. After a couple weeks you'll be able to eyeball (another organ ) what the proper breakdown is without having to weigh everything.

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I suddenly found myself on information overload :| Now I can't process anything. Damn brain.

Don't be sorry! It is overwhelming at first because we think that we don't want to "hurt" our dogs by feeding the wrong food or too much or not enough or what if this or what if that....But I promise you that after 2-3 weeks you'll wonder what you fussed about. And your hounds will look better and be super excited for meal time and you'll be at peace that you're doing the best thing for that.

 

He also admitted that it was more the "clean up" process and not the germs. He's such a girl.

My husband's degree is in environmental science and he absorbs anything science-y / geeky but can't get into the "gross" part of science. He's a bit of a girl, too.

 

Sandra

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Just wanted to say......

 

We have noticed a HUGE change in Magic's coat since increasing his raw foods! That and a TINY pump of salmon oil (so small I wonder if it makes a difference). But, today was like WOW!!! Look at his coat! Pretty awesome. They are loving meal time. The only downside.....now that they have become expert bone crushers, it doesn't take them 20 minutes to eat anymore. And, that was nice

[Guest Cris_M]

Frankie,

 

I live in Rome, GA and my greys eat outside almost all the time. In the cold, they wear a coat. In light rain, they get towelled off when they come in. In moderate rain, they wear a raincoat. If the weather is rough (including too hot), I make sure they get to come inside very quickly afterwards. My guess is that they get 2-3 meals a year inside. They are perfectly fine with it and are uncomfortable eating inside. If you feed outside, they will choose one spot and that spot will get quite worn.

 

The freezer thing gets easier. I just pack a couple of days meals in an old grocery bag and drop it in the freezer. Then, I can pull it out the night before and let it thaw at room temp -- GASP! It is almost always still frosty the next morning. I know I will forget sometimes so I have some boneless things in the freezer. I can thaw those in the microwave without worry. (If a spot gets too hot, I just run in under cold water.)

 

As for kibble, I use it in a pinch. I have a 5# bag that I've had for months, but it's nice to have as insurance.

 

When I first started raw feeding, I was really anal about "doing it right". As you can tell, I've gotten a lot more chilled about the whole thing. It gets much easier as time goes on.

 

Have fun!

Cris

 

Sandra, I live in Athens, GA and it was at a locally owned grocer, Bell's. Much more selection than our Publix or Kroger! They also had chicken feet, so I got some of those too!

 

While I cannot say for certain, I don't think the pig stomach we have is bleached. BUT, I didn't look closely at it. I'll have to pull it out tomorrow and see

 

Our local Mexican market sells pig heads too. I stopped by there on the way home to see what off the wall goodies they had. I was in heaven

 

We have not made the commitment to 100% raw yet because of the cost and that my husband won't let the boys eat it in the house....YES I am still working on it. The thought of raw meat "germs" being in the house skeeves him out a little. But, I am constantly reminding him that he lets them lick his body and they lick their butts. So, maybe one day :)He is starting to see how well they are becoming at eating the raw bones, etc so fast, so maybe putting them in their bowl will be an option, who knows. Also, with a very hectic house and schedule, I don't promise we will always be able to remember thaw something out. I know somethings can be given frozen, but I just don't trust that right now we can be 100% committed to raw and the follow through. It really comes down to us making the commitment and altering our lifestyle....where aren't there yet. Slowly but surely, I'm sure we will get there!