Stomach Issues - Ongoing

[Guest greysmitten]

I'd really appreciate some input on what's been going on with my girl ... please bear with me ...

 

We adopted Azi in April of this year. For as long as I can remember (I should have documented this, I know), she has had on-off issues with her stomach. Every now and then - maybe once every second week or so - she will wake me up, wanting to go outside. She doesn't need to potty, but wants to eat grass instead. She will stay outside for a good 10 minutes just to chew on grass. When she wakes me up like these, she always has very audible noises coming from her gut and refuses to eat her breakfast. Taking her for a walk to stimulate her appetite will sometimes work, but she will eat very little.

 

So, here is the breakdown:

• Other than during these times, she eats normally
  
• Her bowel movements are fairly normal (though, like a lot of Greys, a little soft sometimes). She has had bouts of diarrhea with no noticeable cause, however.
  
• She gets regular exercise
  
• She sleeps great
  
• Her fecal came back last week - negative
  
• She has been through a five-day course of Flagyl
  
• She eats a dry kibble (Actr1um Holistic Large Breed) with wild salmon oil added twice per day
  
• I've recently added a probiotic - but problems much predate this addition
  

 

So I'd appreciate any help at this point. Please ask any questions if I've forgotten to include some information. I'm really wondering if she has some type of physical/mechanical problem. Her symptoms sound very similar to a friend's horse who is suffering from stomach ulcers. Thoughts?

 

Thanks everyone

 

-mikey

Edited December 14, 2011 by greysmitten

[PrairieProf]

My input (not saying this is it): test for folate/cobalamin and for pancreatic function if you've haven't. Beth's stomach issues turned out to be related to her being just under the threshold for pancreatitis, though we didn't have exactly the same symptoms. She has been much better after we switched her to a low fat diet (and she was on a month+ course of Flagyl after she was diagnosed).

[Guest greysmitten]

My input (not saying this is it): test for folate/cobalamin and for pancreatic function if you've haven't. Beth's stomach issues turned out to be related to her being just under the threshold for pancreatitis, though we didn't have exactly the same symptoms. She has been much better after we switched her to a low fat diet (and she was on a month+ course of Flagyl after she was diagnosed).

 

Thank you for that info. What were Beth's symptoms?

 

Edit: Also wanted to add that Azi looks very healthy - she has a good weight (64 lbs) and her coat is shiny and full (thanks to the salmon oils, I believe).

 

Stupid me - I forgot to mention (!) that she will vomit up a small amount of mostly bile when she has one of these "attacks".

Edited December 14, 2011 by greysmitten

[Guest KennelMom]

Have you ever had an xray of her stomach?

[Guest greysmitten]

Have you ever had an xray of her stomach?

 

No. Since she's new here, the vet has only seen her once.

 

Are you thinking there could be some type of mass?

[Sambuca]

I would try giving her a snack every night before bed. Sometimes when they are really hungry they can get nauseous then vomit, eat grass and not be interested in eating since they don't feel well. Since this is always happening at night for Azi, the bedtime snack may help.

[Guest KennelMom]

It's probably nothing, but when the usual suspects have been ruled out (worms, food, transition to new home, etc), like you listed, getting a picture to see if there's anything to see would be my next step. Dogs can eat things that stay in their stomachs for a long time. We had a foster that ate his crate carpet at that track and was with us for a month before he had any signs something was wrong. I've heard of dogs throwing up stuff they've eaten many months after they actually ate it. You *probably* won't find anything, but if you wanted to pursue it that'd probably be my next step.

 

Our guy Prajna would go through random bouts of licking the carpet and wanting to go outside and eat grass. He did this for many years and never had anything medically wrong that we/the vet could ever find and it was independent of diet (regular kibble, grain free kibble, raw diet...we've fed them all!). Eventually we just chalked it up to one of his quirks.

 

eta: Prajna would often vomit up bile if he didn't eat every 12 hours. It happened more often when we fed on a regular schedule. Another poster on GT once theorized that the bodies of dogs fed on a schedule can start to anticipate the feeding by producing more salive and/or stomach bile...which can make them feel sick. I don't know if that's physiologically true, but it makes sense to me. When we started randomizing feeding, he quit puking up the yellow bile in the mornings...but he still did the licking/grass eating routine.

Edited December 14, 2011 by KennelMom

[Guest greysmitten]

Very interesting.

 

I know that when I was pregnant, I had to not only eat regularly, but often get up in the wee hours to snack in order to not feel nauseous. So this random/frequent feeding thing makes a lot of sense to me.

 

I did add a tiny meal at the end of the day a few times before, but didn't keep up that practice very long. Maybe I'll re-instate that snack for a few weeks and see if it helps.

 

Thanks for much for the input, everyone

[Newgreymom]

Daisy gets the same thing. The only thing that helps is a small snack at bedtime. If her belly starts to gurgle, we immediately give her a GasX pill (over the counter) and a piece of cheese or chicken etc...

[rascalsmom]

Jack has recently had some stomach issues, too. A bit different than your dog's, but perhaps there are some ideas here for you to discuss with your vet.

 

Jack was vomiting yellow bile a couple of times weekly, always first thing in the morning--and then he wouldn't eat breakfast. Usually he did okay at dinner time. I had him to the vet twice, he had an x-ray (negative)...and the vet put him on carafate for about 10 days, along with a pepcid twice daily. As soon as he was on carafate, he was back to normal. Once he finished his first course, I figured he was better and quit giving him pepcid, too. Within a couple of weeks he was back to vomiting and not feeling well, to the point of trembling a lot. Back to the vet, and this time she did bloodwork to rule out pancreatitis (which was indeed ruled out), put him back on carafate, and again, it was like a miracle. This time we added a prescription food, too--Iams "Intestinal Plus" [Jack has always had rather loose stool as well], and she told me to KEEP him on the pepcid. When he finished this round of carafate, and has stayed on pepcid, he has been fine. The prescription food, while expensive, is yielding much firmer stools, and agrees with his stomach, so we are keeping him on it.

 

Maybe your dog needs some carafate, and/or pepcid. I also agree with the 'bedtime snack' idea. Good luck, digestive issues are tough to figure out!

[Guest snakes]

FedX has a sensitive stomach, if he doesn't have something to eat before bed (we feed the daily food in three meals now, a small one before bed) he ends up throwing up bile in the early morning or eating then throwing up about 10-15min later.

I would suggest as others have, a decent snack before bedtime.

[Guest ethan]

I had this same issue with Rocket. Never anything wrong but sometimes he would wake me up early with girgling stomach and wanted to go outside and eat grass. I sat him on the couch with me, got a little dish of cottage cheese and hand spooned it into him. I have no idea how i got into this routine but it did seem to work well. I now think his stomach was empty and should have had a snack before bed.

[Guest sweetpea]

Hiya!

 

Sorry Azi's having tummy troubles.

They sound pretty much identical to what Sweetpea and I have been through, so I'll share our fix.

 

Manuka Honey.

 

When her tummy gets gurgly I give her a teaspoon of honey.

'Bout 20 minutes to a half our later, gurgles are gone.

 

If she refuses her pre-walk morning cookie, I know the gurglies are coming, so I give

her a teaspoon of honey.

 

Sometimes her appetite comes right back, sometimes it takes a couple of hours.

But it used to be a couple of days to get her back on track before.

 

Good luck!

 

Buzzy

 

A link to the brand I use

 

(We went through all the tests, e-vet visits, 72 different kinds of food (slight exaggeration),

flagyl, bland diet, probiotics, pepcid, pepto bismol, the works. Nothing worked for us like

this honey does. Now we're just on Iams in the green bag and the occasional teaspoon of Manuka,

it's AWESOME!)

[Guest bellarotondella]

hi,

 

have had the same problem with my girlie for years now. she even sometimes has bloody stools, etc. after vet visits and various meds the solution i have found (vet recommended) is a spoon full of pepto bismal (not the tablets), absolutely no grass eating (she tries her best but i watch her like a hawk). she does not like the pepto although she eats everything in sight.

 

i give her the pepto when i hear her stomach, i hold off feeding her for a few hours.

 

since i have been doing this she has not had a bad case of bloody anything.

 

hope this helps.

 

francesca

[PrairieProf]

My input (not saying this is it): test for folate/cobalamin and for pancreatic function if you've haven't. Beth's stomach issues turned out to be related to her being just under the threshold for pancreatitis, though we didn't have exactly the same symptoms. She has been much better after we switched her to a low fat diet (and she was on a month+ course of Flagyl after she was diagnosed).

 

Thank you for that info. What were Beth's symptoms?

 

Edit: Also wanted to add that Azi looks very healthy - she has a good weight (64 lbs) and her coat is shiny and full (thanks to the salmon oils, I believe).

 

Stupid me - I forgot to mention (!) that she will vomit up a small amount of mostly bile when she has one of these "attacks".

 

Beth's symptom was a bout of diarrhea that did not resolve -- or rather, it resolved on Flagyl and I/D but returned as soon as I transitioned her back to regular food. We did the blood tests to try to figure out what might be going on, and I'm so thankful we caught the problem before it became a crisis. FWIW, this D was almost certainly initially triggered when I started adding salmon oil to her food -- too much fat for her pancreas to handle. She had had bouts of diarrhea in the past (probably related, I realize in hindsight, to eating fatty foods). And a couple of months before the diagnosis she had gone through a spell of not wanting to eat her kibble, when she has never been at all picky about eating before or since, which I can't prove but assume was probably related to the same issue.

Edited December 15, 2011 by PrairieProf

[NeylasMom]

Before you get into any more expensive testing, I would do a couple of things, not necessarily in this order, but probably one at a time so you can identify what helps and what doesn't.

 

1. A 7-10 day course of Panacur. It sounds like you haven't treated prophylactically for worms yet, and while her symptoms don't quite fit that, fecals can be negative and it's relatively inexpensive and harmless to do the course (you can find it online for less, you don't need a Rx).

 

2. Put her on a probiotic. I really like Vetricentric Probiotic BD because it also has a prebiotic, digestive enzymes, & some supplements to soothe the digestive tract.

 

3. As someone suggested earlier, try giving her an appropriately timed snack. If she tends to have the symptoms in the morning, give her the snack before bedtime (just reserve a bit of her dinner kibble).

 

4. (And I would try this one only after trying the 3 above) give her some gas-x when she has symptoms, or when you anticipate they will start.

 

To me, it sounds like she may be hungry so I'd probably try the snack first. Vomiting a little bile is pretty common with those dogs that can't go from dinner through to breakfast without eating. The rumbling could otherwise be gas. Gas-x would just treat the symptom, but it would at least be telling if it gave her relief.

 

I'm a raw feeder so I have some biased opinions, but generally I think kibble can often throw off our dog's digestive tract health. I really like a high quality probiotic if you're not able to consider a homemade or raw diet.

 

I hope that helps.

Edited December 15, 2011 by NeylasMom

[greyhead]

This is how our Spencer acted -- exactly how he acted -- before the *third* fecal found his hookworm. Two negative fecals before that missed it. We know he brought the hooks with him rather than catching them here. What we're seldom told is that a negative fecal doesn't mean much. There was a thread about it. If I can find it, I'll come back and add the link to this post.

 

ETA: It's post #27 in this thread: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/254289-quick-question-about-poops-etc/page__p__4533520__hl__%22question+about+poops%22__fromsearch__1?do=findComment&comment=4533520 Lindsay does a great job of explaining!

Edited December 15, 2011 by greyhead

[cleptogrey]

there's lots of excellent advise out there, but it all can be rather confusing. i would say, "talk to your vet". a phone call to describe the situation and ask if he wants a stool sample. aside from testing an experienced vet can also detect problems from the odor. your vet might suggest a run of bland white rice and beef, they all have their favorite recipes for upset digestive tracks. she might need more flagyl or tylan powder or pecid ac. each vet works their magic their own way.

 

after have dogs for 40+ years i call my vet, we talk and i follow his current instructions. generally i am following his instructions from the past, white rice/ground beef and watch before i call. it's good to see that you have posted asking for suggestions-keep us updated

 

oh, is your pup on interceptor??? it's a good general wormer as well as heart worm preventative. i use it(so does my vet) all year.

Edited December 16, 2011 by cleptogrey