Charging The Food Bowl

[Guest kayemgi]

Newbie here, I tried a search, but food and feeding are pretty popular terms here and I couldn't find exactly the help I was looking for, so I'm posting a new topic.

 

Our new boy Bigby keeps charging the food bowl when we feed him and I can't get him to be calm before I give it to him.

 

What I do generally is I prepare the food (we are soaking it in water on recommendation of the shelter) and then sit and wait until he lays down -- letting the food soak and letting him calm down at the same time. However, when I stand back up to get the food, he knows. He gets excited, follows me, pushes me and tries to charge the bowl as I'm setting it down. Each time he does this, I tell him No, make him take a few steps back, tell him to Stay, and try again. And he charges again. Over and over and over until I really can't take it any more and I just physically hold him back while I set it down and then let him have it. Obviously this is not working, and I want to have a well behaved and well trained dog! What should I do?

 

We've thought about (but not yet tried) making him get in his crate (I'm afraid he'll just get even more worked up in there) and spraying him with water as a reprimand, which he doesn't like (but I don't want him to associate punishment with getting fed?) I'm kind of at a loss for what to do. It's only been a few days, but we want to start on the right foot and training him consistently! He just doesn't really respond to any of our commands...sit, stay, down, come, heel, drop it...nothing. I know that we can work on sit and lay down and others with positive reinforcement but getting him to chill at feeding time really has me befuddled. Any suggestions?

[Guest greyers]

Hi there and welcome to the forum!

It sounds like you are in the right mindset of having him be "calm" before you place the food down. I have had dogs excited about dinner time and under feet before but they have always been able to be told "go lay down" and they retreat to the dog room and wait. If this isn't something you can teach him easily right now, you may want to start with putting in a babygate into your kitchen. So that he is physically forced to stay out from your feet. This might at least help the frustration you feel during feeding prep time so that you can then concentrate your energy on trying to make him be calmer as he approaches the bowl.

 

I am certain there are others on here who have dealt with this issue far more than I have and they probably can provide some excellent advice, especially on the "training" part. But for me I would suggest removing the dog from the room as a "start" and if he will not go and stay out on his own, then use a barrier to keep him out.

[Burpdog]

Obviously this is not working, and I want to have a well behaved and well trained dog!

 

You adopted a retired racer. I'm assuming he raced? Patience.....remember he is a hound, not a working breed.

 

Have you read about his life before adoption?

[Mike516]

Ginger gets very excited to eat. But she's beside herself when we get home from work and completely wound up and I don't think it'd be possible to feed her without getting trampled.

We were told to experiment and find what works for us and we hit on something that works for us right now.

We do the walks a little backwards. In the morning, she won't do anything, and especially does not want to go out, until she eats and since we walk her late before bed (around 9pm) we feed her before her walk in the morning. It sounds wrong/backwards but it works for us: 7am eat then walk - 5:30 walk then eat - 9pm final walk of the day.

At night, she's so worked up when we get home that we take her out for her long walk of the day and it calms her down. She's still excited to eat but she's not jumping around like a nut.

So maybe walk him before you feed him to tucker him out a little?

It took us a few weeks to figure this system out and it's an ever evolving strategy but for the most part everyone is happy.

Any veteran thoughts on this?

[Guest mariah]

I think maybe working on laying the foundation with basic commands might be the best course of action before moving on to impulse-control training like waiting for dinner...if he doesn't have a concrete understanding of "stay" or "wait" just yet, he's probably having trouble figuring out just what you want him to do (and the food bowl is a mighty distraction).

 

Maybe work on those things first, get him to do a reliable stay or wait with no distractions, and gradually work your way up to waiting for dinner. I wouldn't spray, either, you're right that you don't want him to associate dinnertime with something negative; and even if doing so did make him act less out of control, it wouldn't have changed the underlying emotional state, which is what you're looking to do here.

[Guest KennelMom]

I think maybe working on laying the foundation with basic commands might be the best course of action before moving on to impulse-control training like waiting for dinner...if he doesn't have a concrete understanding of "stay" or "wait" just yet, he's probably having trouble figuring out just what you want him to do (and the food bowl is a mighty distraction).

 

Maybe work on those things first, get him to do a reliable stay or wait with no distractions, and gradually work your way up to waiting for dinner. I wouldn't spray, either, you're right that you don't want him to associate dinnertime with something negative; and even if doing so did make him act less out of control, it wouldn't have changed the underlying emotional state, which is what you're looking to do here.

 

Agree

 

You're trying to get him to respond when he's already too worked up...the stimulus of a meal is just too big for him to overcome right now.

[cozmicdog]

I think you've got some really good responses and ideas here. I would only add that this kind of thing takes patience and consistency. (And this is coming from someone who's not very patient , so easier said than done, I know.

Don't give up- come up with a plan, do it the same way EVERY time for however long it takes, and you'll be rewarded with a boy who waits for his dinner. It'll also help Bigsby out, as once he understands what you want from him, he'll be that much less stressed out.

[Guest sheila]

JMO but I think you are making feeding time too much of a ritual and allowing the dog to get overly excited. I put water on my hounds food, but I don't let it 'soak'. I just fill the dish, splash some water on it and set it down and walk away. My hounds are very happy when it's chow time and are right at my heels when it comes around, but they never push me or lunge at it.

[Guest kayemgi]

Thanks everyone! I think those that said we need to work on the basic commands first are right. He has no idea what stay means, so how can I expect him to stay when I'm holding food?!

 

Mike, I walk him before both breakfast and dinner, doesn't seem to make any difference other than now he also looks for food after his other walks!

[Riverhound]

Thanks everyone! I think those that said we need to work on the basic commands first are right. He has no idea what stay means, so how can I expect him to stay when I'm holding food?!

 

Mike, I walk him before both breakfast and dinner, doesn't seem to make any difference other than now he also looks for food after his other walks!

 

:lol

[Guest KennelMom]

JMO but I think you are making feeding time too much of a ritual and allowing the dog to get overly excited. I put water on my hounds food, but I don't let it 'soak'. I just fill the dish, splash some water on it and set it down and walk away. My hounds are very happy when it's chow time and are right at my heels when it comes around, but they never push me or lunge at it.

 

I think these are also good points.

[christinepi]

Making Bigby step back when he charges seems to me the best strategy, even if it takes countless repetitions. My dog was never as worked up as yours before a meal, but that's how we taught him to be patient, and he's wonderful now. One thought that crossed my mind is this: what about breaking his meals into many smaller ones and take breaks between them, so at least for the second, third and fourth parts he wouldn't be so out of control hungry and greedy? This way he could be set up for success because he might need way fewer of the repetitions of stay/wait, therefore less frustration?

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

The other have said it, but I'll agree, he needs to be trained to "stay" or "wait" before he can be expected to perform those for his dinner, and like Sheila said, dinner time has become more of a ritual than needed. You don't actually have to let the kibble get soggy. Just the water is enough to slow a fast eater and keep them from choking and coughing while they eat.

 

 

The first thing you need to do is recognize and elimminate the cues that get him worked up. More importantly, I think you need to eliminate the time he has to get worked up. Dinner is extremely exciting, and it always will be. Seeing his dinner prepared then having to wait however long for the kibble to soak is just way too much for him to handle. Try just putting it down immediately after you add the water.

 

The "wait" command is probably the best one you can teach him for this. To begin you might feed him like usual, but just half his food. After he's eaten that half, hand feed him the rest while training "wait".

 

To train "wait", hold a piece of food in the palm of your hand. When Bigby tries to take it just close your hand around it. Repeat this until he stops trying to take it. Tell him to wait while he's already waiting then give him the piece of food along with the release command "Ok". With practice you should be able to work him into waiting for longer and longer periods and for higher value foods too. Be patient, be consistent and he'll learn.

 

My Jayne will wait for her dinner without being told anymore. Granted, he nose is right in the dish and she's drooling on the kibble, but she won't take a bite (usually - she's not perfect) until I say Ok.

 

ETA: I really like what Christinepi says, try the smaller meals. You could also "stealth" feed him. Put a measure of his food into another bowl and have it sitting near the sink (maybe even in the bathroom), add the water and then just casually carry it to his bowl and dump it in before he even realizes that you've been working with his food.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Jayne

[MaryJane]

You mentioned that he is new -- how new is he? Have you had him a few weeks?

 

Since it is a new environment, many greyhounds justifiably are very nervous about whether they are going to get fed and this causes some of them to get very excited when they think it is "time". Usually when they start to understand the feeding routine and begin to trust that you will feed them every day they will start to calm down.

 

I just noticed in the "introductions" section that you may have only had him for about a week ... so he is still very nervous and unsure of everything so he probably doesn't yet trust you to feed him .. give him some time.

Edited November 2, 2011 by MaryJane

[philospher77]

This is really just a comment, but thought I would throw it out there. Even once you have trained a stay or wait, be aware that increasing the reward value makes impulse control harder. There is a video of my Katie holding a stay for over a minute for her dinner. I did that on another day with kibble with added water, and she couldn't hold a 20 second stay.

 

Which does make me think that you might try starting the meal with dry food, and once he's eaten that and taken the edge off, give him the moistened food.

[3greytjoys]

I think maybe working on laying the foundation with basic commands might be the best course of action before moving on to impulse-control training like waiting for dinner...

Agree

 

I Agree. Lots of good ideas in this thread, especially patience with a sighthound.

 

Please do not spray him while in his crate. A crate should be a dog's happy, safe, comfortable place. Please avoid anything that might make him associate any punishment with his crate. That backfires big time.

 

(Other new readers: Feeding in a crate is an excellent way to help a new hound like their crate. It associates a repeated, positive, happy feeling.)

 

As mentioned, I'd encourage you to teach him to "sit" (with treats first). After he learns that action, begin telling him to "sit" before every meal, treat, etc. That gives him a "job" for the moments it takes you to place his food down. (This naturally helps him learn wait too.)

 

Walking to tire hounds out is great. Important note: Please remember to allow a minimum 1 hour before and after walks when around meal times to reduce to possibility of bloat. Strenuous exercise should have a 2 hour rest time block before and after to reduce possibility of (deadly) bloat.

 

I posted the following snippet in another thread. It offers gentle ways to teach a Greyhound to "sit".

Gently Teaching a Greyhound to Sit: (Two options.)

(Please AVOID using physical force. Please do not press down on rump, or force fold legs when teaching a Greyhound to sit. Greys have no idea what is being done to them and may bite from this rough handling.)

 

Option 1: While hound is lying down, guide a high-value treat upwards in front of his face to encourage him UP to a sit. Then treat and highly praise, praise, praise!!"

---

Option 2 for trusting hounds: Work with the Greyhound's natural behavior by watching for the hound to begin to lie down on his dog bed (or carpet). Have a yummy high-value treat in hand (Chicken, turkey, beef meat, lowfat string cheese, hot dog pieces, etc.)

 

The instant he places his rear end on the bed/ground, immediately move your body directly in front him to block his body from lying all the way down.

 

Immediately say "sit" and instantly give the treat reward. (He will quickly connect the word sit to the feeling.)

 

Offer him tons of happy praise!!

"Side sits" are fine. That position is more comfortable for some hounds than a "straight sit" with their long legs. They often do straight sits later on their own. (BTW, I don't expect Greyhounds to sit for long lengths of time.)"

 

End snippet.

---

Some people teach sit on a grassy hillside so the hound's rear doesn't have as far to drop down. That's good too.

 

I've had great luck teaching all our hounds and fosters using the method #2. Keep lessons brief (<5 minutes for "sit"), but good to repeat 2-3 times daily. Other lessons I try to keep <10 minutes. Dogs have the minds of a 2-3 year old and can lose interest quickly.

 

As mentioned, feeding half or third portions (immediately one after the other) for a day or two would give him extra practice to "sit" for each offering.

 

I agree with wetting kibble. No need to soak until mushy unless for a medical problem. Bacteria builds quickly if soaking too long at room temperature. A hound is more inclined to choke on completely dry kibble ($250.00 ER visit later).

 

Good luck! I bet your boy will be well-behaved around food in a short time. Greyhounds have no idea what we are looking for from them until we show them in a positive, cheerful rewarding manner. Here, all hounds sit before every meal. One that eats in a crate races INTO her crate, "sits" peers her head out and "waits" for her turn. She's adorable.

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

My boy Neon is a beast at meal and biskie time. I know I will not get a lot out of him while he is so worked up; so I keep it very simple. When I am walking toward his feeding area with the bowl, he'll be spinning and jumping and being crazy and I will stop moving forward. I tell him "4 on the floor" and when he stops moving and all 4 feet are on the floor, I'll proceed forward. Of course he seldom makes it to his bowl stand without me stopping and waiting a few more times, but he knows what I want and he is getting better. Finally, when we get there, I make him be calm once more and then I set the bowl down. He is learning; I know he's smart, but when they are so over-the-top excited about something it can be hard for lessons to take hold.

[Guest kayemgi]

Thanks again everyone!

 

I was soaking his food because the shelter told us to because that's the texture he was used to getting. They told me it only needs to sit for 4-5 minutes. I was waiting a little longer just for him to calm down (which he would) but then he'd get excited again when I pick up the food bowl.

 

What I did last night and this morning was prepare the food, let it sit for a few minutes in the kitchen while giving him some pets and attention, which he enjoyed, and then carried the bowl to the doggy room, stopping, saying "ah ah" and waiting if he jumped (only if he jumped), and then fed him immediately, just holding him back gently til I could set the food down. I felt like this way he would feel less anxious that he might not be getting the food.

 

I will definitely try teaching the wait command, thank you for those tips! And I like the idea of breaking up his meals as well, we'll give that a shot. We have only had him a week, I just wanted to start out on the right foot. Sounds like just some more time is also what's needed, til he feels confident that he's definitely going to be fed every time.

 

And 3greytjoys, don't worry, I would never spray him in his crate! If he's in his crate and he's crying or upset, he just gets ignored. And he does like his crate, he will go in all by himself, he just doesn't always like to be left alone. Sometimes he's fine with it (when he's sleepy) and sometimes he cries, but we'd never punish him in his crate.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Your situation is EASY! I have three hounds and a foster so I feed in crates.

 

My routine:

1) I ask "who is hungry"? and I am greeted with roo-ing and spinning. I walk everyone to their respective crates and tell them "crate". I have to be sure not to be between the hound and their crate or I will be pushed over.

2) I have plastic bins (rubbermaid storage bins about 24" high and 30" wide) that I place in front of each crate (door is open)

3) I go into the kitchen and prepare dinner (usually takes 3-5 minutes)

4) I walk out to the crates with the bowls and give the sit command.

5) Once they are in a sit, I place the bowl on their respective bins

6) I point at each one to release them to eat.

 

Two things to note:

1) It takes a long time to be able to get them to sit and not eat the food right away, this is something that you have to work on.

2) If the hound tries to jump over the bin to get out of the crate while I am preparing the food, I simply walk them back to their crate and close the door.

 

Remember, greyhounds were always fed in their crates when they were racing, so it is ingrained in them to be in the crate to eat.

 

I think if you just put your hound in the crate and close the door for a few days, he will get the idea of what to expect, then you should be able to keep the door open when you are preparing food without him even leaving the crate. If at any time during your training he jumps at you or gets out of hand, simply hold the food bowl up and ignore him. He will settle down eventually, you just have to have more will power than he does.

 

Good luck, its not impossible to help your situation.

 

Chad

[Batmom]

I was going to suggest giving him something else to do so he doesn't jump on you. My Gidget -- who was Greyt_dog_lover's foster -- was used to being fed in her crate. She gets *very* excited for mealtimes. First week or two she was here, I crated her before getting the food, and took her the food. Then, because I am lazy, I quit crating her first and just told her to go in her crate when I picked up the food bowl. She would see me pick up the bowl and rocket off to her crate to wait for it. These days, she does the same thing, even though I actually set her bowl down just outside the crate. Pick up her filled food bowl aaaaaaaaaaaand she's off!

 

No time / scope for jumping on me, she gets her yah-yah's out running to and diving into her crate, and spinning around so as to be ready to eat.

 

The funniest part is, occasionally she believes it is dinnertime a little bit early. Her "notice me" behavior involves coming to me, maybe giving a little yip, and then pointedly going in her crate and peering out to see if the food is coming.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

The funniest part is, occasionally she believes it is dinnertime a little bit early. Her "notice me" behavior involves coming to me, maybe giving a little yip, and then pointedly going in her crate and peering out to see if the food is coming.

 

Jayne does that some mornings when she thinks I'm about to leave, she'll start off to her crate to await her cookie. She's actually recently begun to beg for cookies by diving into her crate and looking at me expectantly any time I go near it, and sometimes when I don't.

[Guest kayemgi]

Hey, so it's been a couple of weeks and we've made some good progress! I've cut down the "routine" so we're much faster now which gives him less time to get worked up. He is now able to 'stay' and not stick his nose in the food container (which is on the floor) while I scoop his food out. He still wants to get to the bowl ASAP, but he doesn't try to knock me over or jump on me, he just doesn't have "wait" down yet so he is still rushing the bowl a bit but, still, progress. Thanks everyone!

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

Congratulations! Good work you!