Thoughts About Toes?

[Guest Fasave]

My senior is going to see an orthopedic specialist tomorrow for a "nodule" in his toe. This all started months ago but it wasn't clear it was the toe. We thought it was the knee but now it's obvious. This toe has been problematic over the years. It has a corn but that's not what we're seeing now. It's had an infection and if I remember correctly, it had a cyst in the webbing which the vet popped accidentally while examining it. My vet thought the swelling could be tendinitis as it appears to be more like swelling in the webbing. We have't done x-rays yet and my vet thought an ultrasound might be more telling. In any event, he thought a specialist would be better at determining next steps. I was reading The thread about Kevin and started getting a little freaked out. He's actually walking pretty well at the moment and a few days of NSAIDs seem to make things better when he starts "toe touching". Ave will be 12 in December and he's been through a lot. After major surgery last year I promised him that I wouldn't put him through surgery again. I hope I don't have to break my promise. Any thoughts or experience out there?

[DesiRayMom]

No experience, but plenty of good thoughts for a good outcome.

[AEB]

My senior is going to see an orthopedic specialist tomorrow for a "nodule" in his toe. This all started months ago but it wasn't clear it was the toe. We thought it was the knee but now it's obvious. This toe has been problematic over the years. It has a corn but that's not what we're seeing now. It's had an infection and if I remember correctly, it had a cyst in the webbing which the vet popped accidentally while examining it. My vet thought the swelling could be tendinitis as it appears to be more like swelling in the webbing. We have't done x-rays yet and my vet thought an ultrasound might be more telling. In any event, he thought a specialist would be better at determining next steps. I was reading The thread about Kevin and started getting a little freaked out. He's actually walking pretty well at the moment and a few days of NSAIDs seem to make things better when he starts "toe touching". Ave will be 12 in December and he's been through a lot. After major surgery last year I promised him that I wouldn't put him through surgery again. I hope I don't have to break my promise. Any thoughts or experience out there?

 

I'm sorry my thread freaked you out! Was it the bandaging issues? It's certainly not my idea of a good time, but now he's in a soft bandage (which I requested for fear of sores from the beginning but was told it wasn't enough to immobilize the toe). I feel more hopeful now that he's comfortable and has more mobility. The sores seems a little better and I hope they continue to head in that direction. A very different situation from your guy. Don't worry too much about soft bandages.

 

Your guy. First of all, good luck today! Let us know what they say. You were not entirely clear about how long THIS problem has been going on so I will assume that it's recent and different from his other toe issues. Senior dogs develop lots of bumps - weird bumps, weird places. Once you know it's not the dreaded C word you can relax some. I hope that it's something simple like he jabbed it with a stick. If he's walking well now, that's good. WIth an 11/12 year old I don't think I'd risk surgery unless it was the dreaded C and isolated to that toe. Otherwise, if my pup was moving around and generally happy and comfortable, even with some off days, I'd probably just watch it carefully and try to see what helps. Maybe supplements, maybe several walks a day. But that is just my opinion.

 

I know I haven't offered too many real suggestions here, but try not to get too worked-up about this at this stage. There are so many simple and manageable things it could be. Best of luck to you and Ave today. Give him some kisses from us. April

[Guest Fasave]

Thanks AEB for the response. It is the surgery and bandaging that worries me. I used to work from home so taking care of a post surgical pup wasn't a big issue but that's not the case anymore. I do worry about healing but mostly I worry about putting him through the surgery so I think I side with you that if it's not the big C, we'll manage other ways. The most recent issue happened late August. He does get glucosomine and fish oil and has since I adopted him 8 years ago. Other than the foot, he's very agile. I know I'm biased but I would classify him as a very "young" 12 year old. Most people are surprised when I tell them his age. When we ran blood work in September my vet called to say if this was a regular dog, his blood results were excellent but given his age, they are extra excellent. I will report back later. I hope Kevin continues to heal well.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I'm sorry my thread freaked you out! Was it the bandaging issues? It's certainly not my idea of a good time, but now he's in a soft bandage (which I requested for fear of sores from the beginning but was told it wasn't enough to immobilize the toe). I feel more hopeful now that he's comfortable and has more mobility. The sores seems a little better and I hope they continue to head in that direction. A very different situation from your guy. Don't worry too much about soft bandages.

 

So sorry for all your boy's troubles. I know I sound like a broken record when I advocate for soft bandages for toe issues on hounds, by it's because I learned the hard way (unfortunately) and not with my own hound (fortunately) that vets, even specialists, lack the experience that even a mediocre dog trainer has. Coupled with their dire warnings of doom and their condescending approach, it's a bad situation for most hound owners.

 

I've posted before that my 13 year old had a toe amp and recovered in less than 2 weeks without issue. If amp is going to solve ongoing toe troubles and the pre op tests come back good, it's not a bad surgery at all. My boy passed a few months later of other causes, and I'm glad I made the tough choice because it meant our last months were spent with him happy and mobile.

 

[Guest onedollar]

My girl Dixie had a toe removed on Thursday. She dislocated her back outside toe and tore all the tendons so it wouldn't stay in place. The vet said since it was a non-weight bearing toe, the easiest way to fix it would be to amputate it. I dropped her off at 8, they called me to pick her up at 11 and she has been great. She is younger (5.5) but I am really surprised at how well she has done. She doesn't have any type of splint, just a wrap that they will change this week.

 

I hope it is a quick and easy fix for your pup too.

[AEB]

I'm sorry my thread freaked you out! Was it the bandaging issues? It's certainly not my idea of a good time, but now he's in a soft bandage (which I requested for fear of sores from the beginning but was told it wasn't enough to immobilize the toe). I feel more hopeful now that he's comfortable and has more mobility. The sores seems a little better and I hope they continue to head in that direction. A very different situation from your guy. Don't worry too much about soft bandages.

 

So sorry for all your boy's troubles. I know I sound like a broken record when I advocate for soft bandages for toe issues on hounds, by it's because I learned the hard way (unfortunately) and not with my own hound (fortunately) that vets, even specialists, lack the experience that even a mediocre dog trainer has. Coupled with their dire warnings of doom and their condescending approach, it's a bad situation for most hound owners.

 

I've posted before that my 13 year old had a toe amp and recovered in less than 2 weeks without issue. If amp is going to solve ongoing toe troubles and the pre op tests come back good, it's not a bad surgery at all. My boy passed a few months later of other causes, and I'm glad I made the tough choice because it meant our last months were spent with him happy and mobile.

 

 

Perhaps I should have been clearer- if he's getting around ok, I would just watch and wait. But, Swifthounds is right, if the toe is hampering his quality of life amputation is worth considering. For me that might mean something different than it does you. I would not hesitate to take a toe off now seeing how things have played out with Kevin- but the doctors do not want to remove the toe unless it doesn't heal.

 

Oh and I believe with surgery he'd be in a soft bandage afterward so the sores are not likely to happen. Maybe I'm all wrong here, but I believe that's correct. My worries with an older hound are anesthesia and complications like infection. But if you boy is healthy and his labs are good, then that's less of a concern. I am thinking from the perspective of someone who had a 13.5 year old grey with kidney issues and any surgery wasn't really an option.

 

Also, trust your gut. I did not like the splint idea from the beginning and wanted a soft bandage or amp. I wanted Kevin to recover comfortably and/or quickly. And now it's being dragged out. I also felt Iike I should do the bandaging or address padding the splint better. And I should have and I feel guilty that I didn't force the issue. It looked padded well, but I did not see the actual splint and it's pointy edges. You know your dog best. Good luck today!

[Guest Fasave]

Thanks for all the advice. We are back from the vet and I've scheduled surgery for next Thursday. The reality is that there is a lump on unknown origin in his toe and it's not going away. No x-ray or ultra sound is going to tell us what it is. A needle biopsy will still require sedation and I know from experience that needle biopsies can be misleading. Avalanche has had two cancerous lumps removed in his lifetime so history is not in his favor. The way the vet put it was if you wait and it grows, surgery will be more complicated. He did say it does not appear to be attached to the bone. However, if it comes back cancerous, they will need to remove the toe. It is a weight bearing toe so they don't want to remove it unless they have to.

 

He's having surgery at Angell Animal Hospital in Boston which is one of the finest animal hospitals in the world. They are bringing in a anesthesia specialist to assist which they do with all "higher risk" patients and a twelve year old greyhound qualifies. Avalanche was a "fretter" at the tracks so he has extremely high nervousness. They are allowing me to wait in the waiting room with him until they are ready for him. Then they will give him the pre-surgery meds while he is with me and they will take him back once the drugs start taking affect. He will come home as soon as he is awake. I've arrange to work from home both Thursday and Friday and hope by Monday we will have figured out a fool proof "cone of shame" that he can deal with. The vet thought three weeks with stitches given the area. He did mention the bandage but I wasn't completely taking everything in at that point.

 

I am so sad for him. For now, lots of hugs and special treats for him. I will report back next week.

[AEB]

Thanks for all the advice. We are back from the vet and I've scheduled surgery for next Thursday. The reality is that there is a lump on unknown origin in his toe and it's not going away. No x-ray or ultra sound is going to tell us what it is. A needle biopsy will still require sedation and I know from experience that needle biopsies can be misleading. Avalanche has had two cancerous lumps removed in his lifetime so history is not in his favor. The way the vet put it was if you wait and it grows, surgery will be more complicated. He did say it does not appear to be attached to the bone. However, if it comes back cancerous, they will need to remove the toe. It is a weight bearing toe so they don't want to remove it unless they have to.

 

He's having surgery at Angell Animal Hospital in Boston which is one of the finest animal hospitals in the world. They are bringing in a anesthesia specialist to assist which they do with all "higher risk" patients and a twelve year old greyhound qualifies. Avalanche was a "fretter" at the tracks so he has extremely high nervousness. They are allowing me to wait in the waiting room with him until they are ready for him. Then they will give him the pre-surgery meds while he is with me and they will take him back once the drugs start taking affect. He will come home as soon as he is awake. I've arrange to work from home both Thursday and Friday and hope by Monday we will have figured out a fool proof "cone of shame" that he can deal with. The vet thought three weeks with stitches given the area. He did mention the bandage but I wasn't completely taking everything in at that point.

 

I am so sad for him. For now, lots of hugs and special treats for him. I will report back next week.

 

 

I hope it comes back negative. And I hope all goes well with removal. That's great they have an anesthesia specialist. And of course I hope they don't have to amputate. The bandaging- I think he'll be in a soft bandage and so it just depends on him and how uncomfortable he is whether you will need a cone of shame. Kevin doesn't need one. He chewed at it a bit the first few days, but not aggressively. Then he gave up. Maybe Ave doesn't need one either. Keep him drugged so he's comfortable. Do frequent bandage changes. And if he's fussing with it, maybe use a muzzle with a stool guard to stop chewing and licking. Good luck!

 

 

[Batmom]

Best wishes for your sweet boy, for an uneventful surgery and quick recovery.

[PrairieProf]

Best wishes for your baby. Beth had a weight-bearing rear toe removed around Memorial Day and despite some complications in the healing process is back to doing 100% of what she used to do as a bouncy five-year-old, running included. I won't say I don't worry a bit more, but it hasn't compromised her quality of life at all -- so I now think with some others that the big deal about weight-bearing toes is overblown.

 

BTW Beth wore a muzzle with stool guard, tied around her neck with a long strip of gauze bandage attached to the part that goes behind ears so she couldn't pull it off -- more comfortable than a cone or collar.

[Guest Fasave]

Just a quick update. Avalanche had surgery last Thursday and did very well. They were so good to us at Angell. They brought us to a quiet room, dimmed the lights and brought in a memory foam bed for him to relax on while they administered the pre-surgical meds. They let him stay with me until the surgeons were ready to begin. I was able to bring him home around 1 pm that afternoon. Aside from a few days of whining and being VERY picky about what he wants to eat, he is adjusting well. Best news was that the biopsy came back today and it was benign!!! Looks like some type of infection took over for some unknown reason. Hopefully the antibiotics will take care of anything remaining. I am so relieved. Thanks for all the will wishes everyone.

[MaryJane]

Good to hear that Avalanche is doing well and his only issues is making sure that "mommy" gets him real good stuff to eat. 1pm was pretty early for bringing him home - was he still groggy?

 

I've always liked Angel, they have been great to my pets throughout many decades. In fact Lucy was just in there last week on an Emergency and stayed overnight in the CCU and they let me get in to see her before I left even though it was really past the time they allowed visitors to get in.

[Guest MnMDogs]

 

...I've posted before that my 13 year old had a toe amp and recovered in less than 2 weeks without issue. If amp is going to solve ongoing toe troubles and the pre op tests come back good, it's not a bad surgery at all. My boy passed a few months later of other causes, and I'm glad I made the tough choice because it meant our last months were spent with him happy and mobile.

 

 

Mork had a toe amp 2 years ago now (he was 10)...he came through it with flying colors and it was the best thing we could have done for him. We don't really know what the issue was that cause him such pain...initially, we thought it was a corn, but it turned out he had highly keratinized tissue which we assume was the culprit. He's missing 2 weight bearing toes and he just keeps on trucking (now at 12 +)

 

Just a quick update. Avalanche had surgery last Thursday and did very well. They were so good to us at Angell. They brought us to a quiet room, dimmed the lights and brought in a memory foam bed for him to relax on while they administered the pre-surgical meds. They let him stay with me until the surgeons were ready to begin. I was able to bring him home around 1 pm that afternoon. Aside from a few days of whining and being VERY picky about what he wants to eat, he is adjusting well. Best news was that the biopsy came back today and it was benign!!! Looks like some type of infection took over for some unknown reason. Hopefully the antibiotics will take care of anything remaining. I am so relieved. Thanks for all the will wishes everyone.

 

I missed this! Best wishes for an easy recovery

[PrairieProf]

If you're on Facebook, I recently discovered there's a club for three-toed greyhounds there! We joined.

[Guest Fasave]

If you're on Facebook, I recently discovered there's a club for three-toed greyhounds there! We joined.

 

 

That's great! Ave still has all his toes but do they take honorary members who almost became three toed

 

Good to hear that Avalanche is doing well and his only issues is making sure that "mommy" gets him real good stuff to eat. 1pm was pretty early for bringing him home - was he still groggy?

 

He was a little groggy but he is SO high stress that it was better to get him out of there. I don't think they would have released him if I hadn't promised that I would be with him and understood any and all warning signs.

 

 

I've always liked Angel, they have been great to my pets throughout many decades. In fact Lucy was just in there last week on an Emergency and stayed overnight in the CCU and they let me get in to see her before I left even though it was really past the time they allowed visitors to get in.

 

Sorry to hear about Lucy. Safari spent time in their CCU and they were very good to him too. I actually found a vet tech curled up with him in his cage on one of my visits. I hope Lucy is feeling better.

[AEB]

So glad to hear all the good news! Kev is still working on his break. Argh! Kisses to Ave.

[Robin1017]

I just saw this! I'm so glad to hear that Ave came out of it well and that it was benign! Give him love and kisses from me and his buddy Robin!!!

 

And lots of cookies, of course.

[Guest greytbookert]

How did I miss this! I'm glad Ave is doing better and thrilled that it was just an infection!

 

Give Ave a big hug and kiss for me!

[zimsmom]

Greyt news Melissa. He's a strong dog.