Kevin Broke A Toe On His Front Foot

[AEB]

Poor Kevin was running this evening and broke his toe. He was screaming and it was sticking out to the side. Off the vet's for an emergency visit and they managed an xray (he had dinner already so they opted not to do a lateral view which would require a sedative). It's split into multiple pieces. It's now much shorter than the same bone on the opposite foot. He was splinted and given pain medicine. He goes in tomorrow for more x-rays and to try to manipulate the bones into a better position. He's going under with a short acting sedative. I am very worried.

 

Poor thing is AWFUL on three legs and the splint makes his leg stick out straight like a peg leg and he has to hold it to the side to keep it from touching the ground.

 

Vet says 25% chance of sores developing to the point where we need to amputate the toe.

 

Anyone with experience with this? Advice?

[BauersMom]

We had a foster come from the track with a similar injury - the orthopedic surgeon did a great job piecing the toe back together which required wires and screws.... but honestly, the dog would have been better off just amputating it right off the bat. It was a difficult recovery and he eventually developed arthritis and other complications.

 

I've had two dogs now without a toe - it's a quick recovery and they never miss it. If the vet feels that it needs surgery to fix the toe, I'd think seriously about just going straight for the amp. Heck, I might consider it anyway if the toe really is bad off.

 

With a hard splint, I give it a 90% chance of developing a sore. I've never had to amputate for a sore alone though, even though they are a real pain to deal with.

 

Good luck tomorrow!

[Remolacha]

I've had two dogs break toes, but both on a back foot. Molly's was a simple break on an outside toe. It was splinted for about a week, then we took the splint off. In retrospect, I wouldn't have splinted that one at all. It took awhile, but eventually healed just fine. Sallie broke an inside toe, in several places (I have no idea how she managed that ) Also splinted for a couple of weeks, vet said if it didn't heal we would have to amputate, but luckily, it did heal. I think it bothers her occasionally, and will probably develop arthritis, but so far it's ok.

 

If it's an outside toe, I wouldn't bother with a bunch of pins and stuff, I'd just amputate, if it were my dog. I think it would be faster and easier healing.

[Guest 4greys4me]

I have had one with a broken toe on a front foot. After 6 weeks of splinting, it did not heal and we ended up amputating. That was a much faster recovery and she doesn't even seem to miss it.

[AEB]

Thank you everyone. It's not what I wanted to hear but I already asked the vet that question point blank. He said let's give it a chance to heal and if it doesn't then we'll look at that. (His dog has broken the outside toes on both front legs and he splinted both. One healed well and one is wanky).

 

It is an outside toe. He's already miserable about the splint. It's a long metal splint and his whole leg is immobilized. It is not a clean break it's sort of splintered. It's broken up were it goes into his foot. I will talk to the vet about whether he needs to be in this type of splint the whole 4 weeks. And the severity of the break. If this is how he's to spend the next 4 weeks I can't imagine him making it. He's going to go stir crazy and be really upset by his limited mobility. He likes a long walk every day and he barks his fool head off and paces if he has to wait for one. Never mind what he does when we can't take him.

 

It's just that amputation is permanent. I worry about making the right decision. He does not operate well on 3 legs and I worry about him missing a digit.

 

Poor thing is still panting and not happy. I feel so guilty.

 

Edited to add that I don't know how helpful a surgery will be. It seems it's either "let's see how it heals" or "chop it off". I hate to get to the end of 4 weeks and he needs it cut off anyway. Going through it all over again when it could have been nearly healed. The decision is weighing very heavily on me though. I don't know what's right for him.

Edited October 5, 2011 by AEB

[Guest sheila]

If it were my dog I would have the toe amputated and be done with the pain and suffering once and for all. A break like this is unlikely to ever really heal properly. I've BTDT with the 'wait and see thing' but the toe eventually had to come off and once the toe was removed my hound was back to normal within weeks and never seemed to miss that wonky toe on eensy bit.

[Chicocat]

With a bad break on an outside toe - I would amputate and have it all behind you (and Kevin) in a couple weeks.

[KF_in_Georgia]

If you're going to try to keep him splinted for a while, get your vet to show you how to do bandage changes. That will give you your best chance of avoiding pressure sores and will save you a small fortune (or maybe a large one) in vet bandaging fees.

 

The secret seems to be to add lots of padding between all toes that will be under the bandage--not just around the injured toe. Also, all around the ends of the splint.

 

See helpful posts here, here, and here.

 

And see here for suggestions on entertaining the invalid.

 

P.S. After you read these blog posts, you may opt for amputation anyway. But the bandaging advice is still valid in that case.

Edited October 6, 2011 by KF_in_Georgia

[AEB]

Does anyone think it's possible to bandage this without the huge splint?

 

Also what kind of recovery is involved in an amputation? How will he likely be bandaged?

 

Advice if he has to go under and have it amputated? IV drip? Any particular anesthesia? I ask because it seems we might have to make this decision tomorrow morning if the vet says, "yes it's bad and he needs to wear that splint."

 

Poor baby. Wait til he finds out he can't eat in the morning. He's going to go wild! I am so upset. He insisted on coming up onto our bed and has now finally settled-down. He climbed on the couch and was having trouble climbing off. Seems he really doesn't want his routine interrupted. He was so pleasant at the vet. He even sang for them. Such a good boy. It makes it so much harder to decide how to proceed.

[BauersMom]

With Princess, she was wrapped for about a week post-amp in a soft wrap (no splint) and then we just kept her foot clean. The stitches came out in 14 days and that was about it for recovery time. It was easy, and Princess was 12 at the time.

 

I did have a broken toe that we used the splint for - Berk had managed to chip it right at his knuckle and so the vet felt strongly he needed the extra support to keep weight off the toe. It healed ok - but it was a long process with many sores.

 

Toes are such a PITA to deal with! I feel your pain.

[AEB]

With Princess, she was wrapped for about a week post-amp in a soft wrap (no splint) and then we just kept her foot clean. The stitches came out in 14 days and that was about it for recovery time. It was easy, and Princess was 12 at the time.

 

I did have a broken toe that we used the splint for - Berk had managed to chip it right at his knuckle and so the vet felt strongly he needed the extra support to keep weight off the toe. It healed ok - but it was a long process with many sores.

 

Toes are such a PITA to deal with! I feel your pain.

 

 

Thank you. And thanks to everyone for their responses. I saw the sores on Jen's site on her pup. I am really afraid of that. I can bandage pretty well (horse person). I think if the vet says nope he needs this splint for 4 weeks and it's a bad break not likely to heal then I will lean towards amputating. But I am not sure what I'll do if the vet says "we can bandage it without the splint and it's a bad break but I don't know how it will heal. It might be ok." The whole thing is making me sick to my stomach.

 

Has Princess had any long term effects due to the amputation?

 

 

[BauersMom]

Well, Princess only lived for another 6 months after the amp - so I can't really say. It never gave her any trouble in that time, and it was an inside toe.

 

But Ivy had a missing toe for the 5 years that I had her and it never bothered her in the least. It was an outside toe on her front foot.

[AEB]

Is that Miss Ivy from "Ask Miss Ivy?" I'm sure she would know what to do . . .

 

He's just staring at me with pleading eyes.

[BauersMom]

Is that Miss Ivy from "Ask Miss Ivy?" I'm sure she would know what to do . . .

 

He's just staring at me with pleading eyes.

 

It sure is. (there's a reason why she stamps her posts with a three-toed foot!)

[Hubcitypam]

When Buck broke his toe (can't remember which one, I think a middle one) my then vet said to just keep him as quiet as possible for 3 weeks and it would heal on its own. It did. Dr. Manny said that he did not believe in splinting broken toes...too many problems.

 

 

[KF_in_Georgia]

Give Kevin an extra snack tonight, before bedtime. (Before midnight is the rule, I think.) That might serve as an advance-apology for tomorrow morning. It also may minimize stomach upset triggered by too much bile and an empty stomach.

 

Also, do as much "morning stuff" as you can tonight. You want to minimize the time you're up and moving around and not feeding him. When I've had to fast my dogs, I stay in bed as late as I can, then jump up, get dressed, and dash out the door, leaving behind a couple of hounds who are looking at each other in disbelief. Hey! She forgot to feed us! Then I get my own breakfast on the way to work.

[AEB]

Give Kevin an extra snack tonight, before bedtime. (Before midnight is the rule, I think.) That might serve as an advance-apology for tomorrow morning. It also may minimize stomach upset triggered by too much bile and an empty stomach.

 

Also, do as much "morning stuff" as you can tonight. You want to minimize the time you're up and moving around and not feeding him. When I've had to fast my dogs, I stay in bed as late as I can, then jump up, get dressed, and dash out the door, leaving behind a couple of hounds who are looking at each other in disbelief. Hey! She forgot to feed us! Then I get my own breakfast on the way to work.

 

I don't think they wanted us giving him anything after 8 or 9. Do you think a little PB with an antacid would be ok?

 

This is crazy. Poor dog's leg is sticking out smacking into everything. He's having a lot of trouble because the leg is dragging on the ground. He's going to get hurt worse. Can't stand on his own yet. Almost broke his neck tonight because of it.

Edited October 6, 2011 by AEB

[KF_in_Georgia]

I don't think they wanted us giving him anything after 8 or 9. Do you think a little PB with an antacid would be ok?

 

I'm not sure about the antacid. I think I'd avoid any meds the vet didn't know about in case they were a potential complication with drugs needed tomorrow.

 

But my vet usually wants no food/no water after midnight for procedures scheduled for the next day, which is why I thought food would be okay tonight. If Kevin has a tendency to stomach upsets, you might need to avoid giving him anything.

[BauersMom]

Give Kevin an extra snack tonight, before bedtime. (Before midnight is the rule, I think.) That might serve as an advance-apology for tomorrow morning. It also may minimize stomach upset triggered by too much bile and an empty stomach.

 

Also, do as much "morning stuff" as you can tonight. You want to minimize the time you're up and moving around and not feeding him. When I've had to fast my dogs, I stay in bed as late as I can, then jump up, get dressed, and dash out the door, leaving behind a couple of hounds who are looking at each other in disbelief. Hey! She forgot to feed us! Then I get my own breakfast on the way to work.

 

I don't think they wanted us giving him anything after 8 or 9. Do you think a little PB with an antacid would be ok?

 

This is crazy. Poor dog's leg is sticking out smacking into everything. He's having a lot of trouble because the leg is dragging on the ground. He's going to get hurt worse. Can't stand on his own yet. Almost broke his neck tonight because of it.

 

How big is the splint again? It sounds like one of those that goes up to the knee? I've only seen those used with broken hocks, not toes.

 

If it is one of those larger ones, they are the worst. Kevin will be much better off with a smaller splint - all splints are problematic, but the big ones are really tough. I don't know why they would have him in something that cumbersome for a toe, but I'm not a vet.

[AEB]

Give Kevin an extra snack tonight, before bedtime. (Before midnight is the rule, I think.) That might serve as an advance-apology for tomorrow morning. It also may minimize stomach upset triggered by too much bile and an empty stomach.

 

Also, do as much "morning stuff" as you can tonight. You want to minimize the time you're up and moving around and not feeding him. When I've had to fast my dogs, I stay in bed as late as I can, then jump up, get dressed, and dash out the door, leaving behind a couple of hounds who are looking at each other in disbelief. Hey! She forgot to feed us! Then I get my own breakfast on the way to work.

 

I think we'll skip any food tonight then. Poor thing. We mentioned his nightly dentastick and they said not tonight. And usually it's 8 or 9 (I remember from Sadie).

 

Kevin gets up at 615 every morning. He'll be up and howling re: breakfast. We'll take him out and he'll pester us and be miserable until 9 when we take him.

 

I am thinking that if we opt to amputate then I will see if we can do a quick dental while he's under. It's been a year since he had it done when being neutered and his teeth are pretty good, but if he's under . . . And see about clipping his nails while he's out on that foot. They'll grow long in a month.

 

We talked and if the vet thinks we can just bandage we may try it. I think the splint is worse than the break. ANd if he says splint is the only hope for healing we'll amputate.

 

I hope if we opt to amputate they can do it while he's out so he doesn't have to go under again.

 

Give Kevin an extra snack tonight, before bedtime. (Before midnight is the rule, I think.) That might serve as an advance-apology for tomorrow morning. It also may minimize stomach upset triggered by too much bile and an empty stomach.

 

Also, do as much "morning stuff" as you can tonight. You want to minimize the time you're up and moving around and not feeding him. When I've had to fast my dogs, I stay in bed as late as I can, then jump up, get dressed, and dash out the door, leaving behind a couple of hounds who are looking at each other in disbelief. Hey! She forgot to feed us! Then I get my own breakfast on the way to work.

 

I don't think they wanted us giving him anything after 8 or 9. Do you think a little PB with an antacid would be ok?

 

This is crazy. Poor dog's leg is sticking out smacking into everything. He's having a lot of trouble because the leg is dragging on the ground. He's going to get hurt worse. Can't stand on his own yet. Almost broke his neck tonight because of it.

 

How big is the splint again? It sounds like one of those that goes up to the knee? I've only seen those used with broken hocks, not toes.

 

If it is one of those larger ones, they are the worst. Kevin will be much better off with a smaller splint - all splints are problematic, but the big ones are really tough. I don't know why they would have him in something that cumbersome for a toe, but I'm not a vet.

 

Yup it goes up to just below his elbow. It's terrible. I'm done with it. Steve Sarras says they race with 3 toes. This makes me feel better.

 

 

[Guest Swifthounds]

IME, amputation of an outside toe is a faster recovery time (less than 2 weeks) than bandaging and waiting for the toe to heal from a simple fracture (3-5 weeks bandaged and then working back slowly) and splints are the cause of more problems than they ever help. In fact, other than to splint a plated leg fracture, splints are pretty awful all around.

 

I've dealt with the first two options on two different dogs in the last year, both double digit seniors, and I don't know that I would have gone the bandage route if the break hadn't been simple.

 

Personally, I wouldn't do something like a dental along with a toe amp or surgical repair. Anesthesia is really not a risk, but dumping bacteria into the bloodstream while you h e open healing bone is a different story.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Swifthounds

[Hubcitypam]

Steve Sarras says they race with 3 toes. This makes me feel better.

Buck raced missing most of a middle toe. (Not on the same foot as the one he broke here). I used to joke that I should get a discount on toenail trimming.

[Guest KennelMom]

Never had a broken toe, just several dislocations...personally, amputation is a last resort solution in my book. I wouldn't go hacking off my digits without trying to heal them first. If something happens to the other toes on that foot, whatcha gonna do? They only have so many. A bigger consideration the younger the dog. I also don't like wraps and splints on greyhounds unless absolutely necessary. The skin on their legs and feet is thin, has really no underlying padding and has poor circulation...it's not really a question of if they'll develop sores, but how bad they'll be. That said, if wrapping was necessary, fine...we could deal with it. I wouldn't amputate just because I didn't want to deal with a wrapped leg for 3 weeks. That's a finite time period....amputation lasts forever.

 

Having said all that, we've inherited missing-toe dogs and they did just fine. We've had two dogs that had to have toe amputations (one front outer toe, one back outer toe - one from injury and one from cancer)and the healing went fine. They were back to normal in a couple weeks. Both are fully healed and both dogs run, play and do all the things they did before the amputation. One amputation was wrapped for 48 hours and then unwrapped to heal the rest of the way (done by our regular vet). The other was wrapped for a week and it took longer to heal. Once the bandage came off, it started healing much faster...I just don't think greyhound skin likes being wrapped up (done by a specialist).

 

Here's Melody post amp - http://worldofgrey.com/?p=952

 

Here's Stella post-amp with a wrapped foot http://worldofgrey.com/?p=1934 and after the bandage came off: http://worldofgrey.com/?p=1940

[Guest Swifthounds]

I forgot to add that I've dealt with broken toes of assorted varieties on 4 different dogs and , using a well padded bandage changed at least twice per week, have had dogs in bandages for a month plus and never had as much as the beginning of a sore. It's all in how you wrap and ventilation.

[BauersMom]

I wouldn't decide to amputate just because I didn't want to "deal with" bandages. I would do it because I wouldn't want to put the dog through a more difficult recovery for a sub-optimal result in the end.

 

I have opted to not amp in cases where the dog has a great chance of coming out of the injury with normal use of the toe. But having a dog deal with the healing period for very bad break only to end up with a toe is likely going give them problems from here on out - I don't think that's a very good outcome. I'd go with the route that has the quicker recovery and least likely complications now, and take my chances on having to deal with another toe injury later.

 

Hopefully Kevin's vet trip comes with some good news about the break. Keep us posted on what the vet says!