Food Allergy/intolerance? Or Worms?

[Guest jvalente]

So we got our first grey, Dante, in March 2010. He's such a sweetie! But we're having a very hard time figuring out his tummy.

 

He's been on a number of different foods: Avoderm Natural, homemade chicken/rice, homemade hamburger/rice, Purina One Lamb & Rice, Instinct Grain-Free Rabbit Meal formula, Natural Balance Sweet Potato & Fish, Natural Balance Sweet Potato & Venison, and Royal Canin Potato & Rabbit (prescription limited ingredient diet). The only food he's somewhat ok on is the Royal Canin Potato & Rabbit, but then his stool is the consistency of melty soft-serve ice cream. He's only had a few "good" poops in the time we've had him.

 

He's been on Tylan powder and Coprophagia tablets & is slightly better on these.

 

On anything other than the Potato & Rabbit, he gets diarrhea, eats grass, chews on wood (furniture, windowsills), has a gurgly stomach & refuses to eat.

 

We think he might be allergic/intolerant to poultry and/or rice because the 'd' is really bad on anything with those ingredients. I do try to switch food slowly. And when I DO switch foods, he's ok the first 7-10 days, but then gets bad real quick. Right now, I really have to coax him to eat.

 

He was diagnosed w/ tapeworm July 2010. Treated w/ Drontal Plus.

 

He's constantly eating rabbit poop in the backyard, too.

 

I'm not necessarily looking for any food recomendations. I know what works for one may not work for another. What I am looking for is your opinion on whether or not this might be a food allergy/intolerance or something related to the rabbit poop. Also, if this was your dog, what would your next step be?

[greyhead]

Sounds like he should be tested for intestinal malabsorption, which involves a B-12 deficiency. My vet had it run after I told her that in addition to the poop problems like you've described, he was chewing wood. Chewing wood can indicate anemia. But regular blood work won't show it.

 

But there must be a reason for the B-12 problem. In our case, it started with hookworm (untreated for 9 months because we kept getting negative fecals), followed much later by a small intestinal bowel overgrowth (SIBO), and finally followed by IBD. If any of these things are in play, changing the food won't help at all. And if IBD develops, you'll need to find a novel protein, one he has never had before. Do you have a good vet handy?

 

 

[tbhounds]

Welcome here! I think my first step would to check a fecal and regardless of the results treat with panacur. My second step would be to run some bloodwork--routine chemistry checking blood proteins then, perhaps a TLI and then finally run a blood test for EPI.

Try to stop him run eating the bunny stool-it can cause diarrhea.

This is not an uncommon problem for recently retired hounds. On the track many are fed a higher meat based diet-we adopt them and change their diets drastically adding unfamiliar grains into their diet. Of course, diarrhea is not always a diet related symptom but, it is the easiest to rule out.

I'm sure some raw feeders will chime in shortly and will be able to offer further diet tips and advice.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Welcome here! I think my first step would to check a fecal and regardless of the results treat with panacur. My second step would be to run some bloodwork--routine chemistry checking blood proteins then, perhaps a TLI and then finally run a blood test for EPI.

Try to stop him run eating the bunny stool-it can cause diarrhea.

This is not an uncommon problem for recently retired hounds. On the track many are fed a higher meat based diet-we adopt them and change their diets drastically adding unfamiliar grains into their diet. Of course, diarrhea is not always a diet related symptom but, it is the easiest to rule out.

I'm sure some raw feeders will chime in shortly and will be able to offer further diet tips and advice.

 

 

Persistent intestinal parasite infection and/or prior or present hookworm infestation can cause what you're seeing. So can the dramatic change from a high meat track diet to a grain/carb heavy kibble diet. Greyhounds just do better on a diet comprised of more meat protein sources - its one of the reasons they take so well to raw. Changing foods over and over can contribute as well.

 

When was the last time a fecal was run? What other diagnostics have you run? Have you tried a meat only or bland diet?

[GeorgeofNE]

If he's eating rabbit poo, can you put him out with a muzzle and stool guard on?

 

I'm not 100% sure about this (I'm sure I'll be corrected!) but I think they can get giardia from rabbit poo. I know my folks had a bunny poo eater, and she was diagnosed with it several times.

 

Giardia would cause the soft poos.

 

George had chronically soft poo for quite a while when I got him. Despite negative fecals, I bought some Panacur-D on someone's suggestion. After he was dosed with that, things cleared up.

[macoduck]

I've found Coprophagia tablets to be useless. Don't know if they would contribute to his tummy problems. Muzzling with a stool guard would be much better IMO.

Ditto on the giardia and fecal checks.

[TheFullHouse]

I have to go with a muzzle and a stool guard. I have a couple of stool eaters here and nothing worked so a muzzle and a stool guard was the perfect solution.

[Guest HHHounds]

Muzzle with poop guard for sure! Also watch ingredients in any treats or snacks...

[Guest jvalente]

Ok, so we'll go for another fecal test and muzzle.

 

I have his muzzle from the greyhound farm...never heard of a stool guard, though. Where do I get one & will it fit on his muzzle?

 

Just a few more tidbits of info:

 

He gets NO treats (well, the occasional baby carrot or banana slice maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks), so it shouldn't be that.

 

He WAS eating his own poop for a while, which is why we started the coprophagia tablets. His 'd' did improve after we started that.....not sure if it's still helping or not.

 

He doesn't seem to have trouble gaining weight. He was 65-ish pounds in March 2010 (a little underweight) & jumped up to 72-ish pounds by this summer.

 

He never made it to the track (flunked out before racing school, we were told). We don't know the reason why, but I'm guessing that it might have had something to do with his tummy problems. We'll probably never know. But what would they be fed on the greyhound farm (in Kansas)?

 

I know it sounds like we've switched foods a lot. It hasn't been that bad. We've really only TRIED to switch foods.....mixing just a little in each time. At most, we get to 1/4 new food to 3/4 old food by 7-10 days when he starts having the real bad 'd', stomach gurgling, eating grass & wood, & refusing to eat. Then we switch back to the potato/rabbit food. The last time we tried to switch was mid-July. He had such a problem with it that he still is not eating well.....we have to coax him to eat most meals. I'd like to eventually get him off of the potato/rabbit just because it's a prescription food that I have to special order 4 bags at a time to get a discount & it's expensive.

 

One last question: we're feeding him 3 cups of food 2 times each day (6 cups total). Sound right? We were feeding him 2 cups 3x/day, but he was refusing that 3rd meal, so we switched to 2x/day. How many times per day do you feed your grey?

[TheFullHouse]

You can purchase a stool guard HERE They fit in the large muzzles on the inside of the muzzle and will fit small muzzles placed on the outside of the muzzle.

[MaryJane]

On the rabbit poo - yes, it has caused problem in one of my dogs. As suggested, use a stool guard or go out with him in the yard.

 

6 cups a day seems a tad much for a 65ish dog - you might want to back down to about 4 to 5 cups but then again, it really depends on the calorie content of the food and how much energy your dog expends. Most of my fosters would get about 2 cups twice a day of commercial dog food.

 

It does sound like your dog might have a food intolerance but it's tough to find a food that doesn't have everything in it - the Natural Balance Limited Ingredient or the Solid Gold beef & barley are ones that I have used before for my fosters. Petsmart's own brand of kibble - the lamb and rice - also surprisingly has "limited ingredients".

 

Are you giving any white rice - it will soothe the GI tract as it is usually easy to digest. I also gice my dogs oatmeal - the fiber works wonders in keeping them regular and not too soft or too hard.

 

As to the next step - if I was you I would do an elimination diet. With this you feed a limited types of food like rice and beef that you know the dog can tolerate and then add in other ingredients one at a time. You usually have to wait about 3 to 4 days to see what the effect is but sometimes, it happens as soon as the next day. It can take 6 to 8 weeks to go through just a few ingredients but, the effort is worthwhile because then you can try to avoid those foods. One of my dogs has a very bad reaction to chicken and a bad just not-as-bad reaction to noodles - I still avoid both of them.

 

Also, you may also want to pick up the prescription Z/D or the I/D diet and see if that makes a difference.

 

On the rabbit poo - yes, it has caused problem in one of my dogs. As suggested, use a stool guard or go out with him in the yard.

 

6 cups a day seems a tad much for a 65ish dog - you might want to back down to about 4 to 5 cups but then again, it really depends on the calorie content of the food and how much energy your dog expends. Most of my fosters would get about 2 cups twice a day of commercial dog food.

 

It does sound like your dog might have a food intolerance but it's tough to find a food that doesn't have everything in it - the Natural Balance Limited Ingredient or the Solid Gold beef & barley are ones that I have used before for my fosters. Petsmart's own brand of kibble - the lamb and rice - also surprisingly has "limited ingredients".

 

Are you giving any white rice - it will soothe the GI tract as it is usually easy to digest. I also gice my dogs oatmeal - the fiber works wonders in keeping them regular and not too soft or too hard.

 

As to the next step - if I was you I would do an elimination diet. With this you feed a limited types of food like rice and beef that you know the dog can tolerate and then add in other ingredients one at a time. You usually have to wait about 3 to 4 days to see what the effect is but sometimes, it happens as soon as the next day. It can take 6 to 8 weeks to go through just a few ingredients but, the effort is worthwhile because then you can try to avoid those foods. One of my dogs has a very bad reaction to chicken and a bad just not-as-bad reaction to noodles - I still avoid both of them.

 

Also, you may also want to pick up the prescription Z/D or the I/D diet and see if that makes a difference.

 

 

Edited to add ...just a note, if the diarrhea turns into water, then you should get your dog into the vet in the next three days or so but you need to make sure that the dog is still drinking (is hydrated). With watery stools, I usually don't wait and get an appointment as soon as I can because my dog might need Flagyl. If there is blood mixed in the stool then it warrants getting the dog in as soon as you can.

 

 

 

 

[Guest jvalente]

@Judy: Thanks! I'll look into the stool guard! He'll just love that....NOT! But too bad! That's what you get for eating bunny poop!

 

@MaryJane: Putting him on rice or beef/rice to start the elimination diet is not really an option b/c we think he can't handle rice. Based on his history, I'm a little afraid to try something like oatmeal or barley b/c he might start refusing to eat again.

 

Has anyone heard of Perfect Form from "The Honest Kitchen"? http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/perfect-form/ Wondering if anyone's had any luck with it.

 

But I will be getting a stool sample into the vet this week.

[Guest sweetpea]

Definitely go with a vet check, and any de-worming necessary.

 

The stool-guard on the muzzle is an easy fix too.

 

Now I'll tell you Sweetpea's story.

 

First 7 months: constant tummy troubles, bland diet, vet visits, stool samples (always negative),

E-vet visits, pudding poo, gas, gurgly tummy, flagyl. Finally, after much trial and error,

we found a food that sort of worked for her.

 

Until suddenly it didn't, back to pudding poo, gurgly tummy, no appetite, flagyl, bland diet. And this time

even the flagyl and the bland diet didn't help enough.

 

Remembered a post from Hubcitypam about "throwing a bag of Iams in the cart" in desperation.

 

We've been on green bag Iams ever since. One of these days I'm going to take a picture of

Sweetpea's poo to show how awesome it is. (It bounces, and sometimes breaks apart .)

 

She's held at 60 pounds ever since.

(Yes, I do think 6 cups of food is too much, Sweetpea eats 1 1/2 cups twice a day.)

 

Good luck, we ALL know how exasperating tummy troubles can be.

 

Buzzy

[MaryJane]

Definitely go with a vet check, and any de-worming necessary.

 

The stool-guard on the muzzle is an easy fix too.

 

Now I'll tell you Sweetpea's story.

 

First 7 months: constant tummy troubles, bland diet, vet visits, stool samples (always negative),

E-vet visits, pudding poo, gas, gurgly tummy, flagyl. Finally, after much trial and error,

we found a food that sort of worked for her.

 

Until suddenly it didn't, back to pudding poo, gurgly tummy, no appetite, flagyl, bland diet. And this time

even the flagyl and the bland diet didn't help enough.

 

Remembered a post from Hubcitypam about "throwing a bag of Iams in the cart" in desperation.

 

We've been on green bag Iams ever since. One of these days I'm going to take a picture of

Sweetpea's poo to show how awesome it is. (It bounces, and sometimes breaks apart .)

 

She's held at 60 pounds ever since.

(Yes, I do think 6 cups of food is too much, Sweetpea eats 1 1/2 cups twice a day.)

 

Good luck, we ALL know how exasperating tummy troubles can be.

 

Buzzy

 

I agree with the "green iams bag". I believe it has beet pulp which is a fiber and firms everything up. You might also want to try the Science Diet Lite - it also has a higher fiber content than most dog foods.