What Anxiety Med To Try Next ?

[Busderpuddle]

I don't know if my group does fostering or not, and yes, I have contacted them about the problem. They suggested a behaviorist.

I do know that vets and trainers are NOT animal behaviorists. I did call and talk to one but she wanted $800 to get started. That is not in the budget and probably won't be anytime soon.

I have not tried any combos of medications and it may come to that. I don't want her drugged. I want her calm and able to enjoy her environment.

What I wish I could do is retire and sit here with her all day. That would make us both happy

[krissn333]

Another thought-could you work with your group to "borrow" a dog who is doing fine in his/her foster home for a week or two? That might give you an idea on if adding a pup will help Ruby.

 

I have been in adoption for almost a decade and I've never dealt with a family with an SA dog that WASN'T helped by adding a confident dog to the mix.

[JJNg]

If you had read my first post, I have tried Colmicalm and Prozac with Ruby with zero results. Just trying to find something that will calm her down and at this point, will try pretty much anything as she is suffering. We tried a trainer, 3 different vets, etc......and yes, a conditioning program.

Have any of the 3 vets been behaviorists? If not, it may be time to consider getting a specialist involved. A couple months back, I believe you were thinking that the Prozac was making her worse, and you were weaning her off to see what she was like with the drugs out of her system? How did she do after she was off the meds? What kind of conditioning programs have you done?

 

With dogs who have generalized anxiety, I find it very important to look at the 'big picture' and assess all aspects of the dog's life and routine, rather than just focusing on the specific triggers to anxiety. Managing the specific triggers is important too, but anything else in her life that causes stress will magnify her anxious response to the triggers. So doing a thorough assessment and making some lifestyle changes to reduce stress and teach her to relax may help. Unfortunately, there's are no easy solutions, and it's unlikely that you will find a 'magic bullet' that calms her down. But I'm sure there are other options that a behavior specialist may be able to help you explore.

 

Clomicalm and Prozac are not the only anti-anxiety meds used in dogs. There are a number of other options, and sometimes it takes time, and some trial-and-error, to find one that helps. A veterinary behaviorist would have more experience at what else you can try, dosages, and even combinations of meds that may work better than each one alone. Even then, the meds are just one part of the behavior modification program, and will probably not be enough without some training and environmental adjustments. Best of luck with Ruby. It sounds like you're trying hard to help her, and I hope that you're able to find something that works.

 

ETA: I believe I may have mentioned this before, but a good friend of mine is a vet and behaviorist in Portland, OR. If you're in the area, I would recommend her highly, and her initial consult fee is $300, according to her website - Synergy Behavior Solutions.

Edited July 6, 2011 by jjng

[3greytjoys]

I have been in adoption for almost a decade and I've never dealt with a family with an SA dog that WASN'T helped by adding a confident dog to the mix.

 

Since everyone else has covered medication, and krissn333's suggestion is often good "medicine"...

 

We know dogs are "pack" animals by nature. IMHO, I believe this is stronger in retired racing Greyhounds than other dog breeds. Before Greys are adopted into "forever homes" they have been with a full pack of Greyhounds every day since birth, throughout racing training, and during their racing career. It's quite remarkable that most Greyhounds transition into home/family life as well as they do. I don't know Ruby's age or how long you've worked with her SA, but I echo the suggestion to consider bringing in a confident hound on a trial basis, if possible. Some hounds (especially SA hounds) truly benefit from not being an only dog. (Many times older hounds are easier to transition, more confident, independent, and mellow. There are many middle-aged and senior hounds available that are SO EASY to incorporate into a home.)

 

Just one SA example: Even though our own severe separation anxiety hound's attachment object is a human (me), I do believe she would be much worse without at least one other confident, relaxed hound in the house. She is often guided by our other hounds and she is most comfortable being the omega dog (last for everything). She would absolutely be a lost wreck without a "leader" to follow (in the absence of a human during the day). Important for her comfort: Another hound, environmental and human familiarity, routine, and humans who understand fear/anxiety driven behavior.

 

Thank you for your devotion to Ruby and for being willing to help her.

[Guest KennelMom]

We started out using valium for our boy Champ who had laryngeal paralysis (stress can literally lead to asphyxiation) and the only things that stressed him out were fireworks and thunderstorms...after a couple years he didn't need the valium anymore. The calm behavior during thunderstorms/fireworks had just become a new learned behavior over time. We didn't do any specific desensitization training.

 

Hopefully the valium works for Ruby.

Edited July 6, 2011 by KennelMom

[Batmom]

What does Ruby actually DO when you say she's anxious / frightened?

[Guest Swifthounds]

What does Ruby actually DO when you say she's anxious / frightened?

 

And, what's the environment like and how do you react?

 

 

Also, while I'm absolutely a firm believer that dogs are pack animals and that with rare exception any dog, but especially a greyhound, is normally happier with a least one other canine companion, it most certainly is not the case that adding a dog will solve any type of SA or anxiety. Sometimes it doesn't help and sometimes it makes the situation worsen. It can be wonderful, but it isn't a cure all.

[Scooby172]

The Whole Dog Journal just had an article on fear based behavior problems in dogs. According to Dr. Nicholas Dodman (director of the Animal Behavior Department of Clinical Sciences at Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine) the new drug of choice for dogs who need help with storm and other noise phobias is clonidine. Df. Dodman reports that clonidine is a short acting drug and is best used for dogs who need occasional relief or combined with other long acting drugs such as Prozac or Clomicalm , as needed for additional effectiveness in treating separation anxiety and other fear based behavior problems. Dr. Dodman also uses melatonin for storm phobias ( I use this with Bella with good relief). This article is in The Whole Dog Journal July 11 edition, very interesting information.

Linda, Bella and Keeva

[krissn333]

I also hate to say this, but, your OWN anxiety being worried about how Ruby will handle certain situations is probably feeding her anxiety and making it worse. Honestly I can't blame you at all for being anxious about the situation though - you're worried about your girl and that is totally normal. But these guys TOTALLY feed on nervous energy. This certainly won't cure things, but, it may help: YOU need to be as confident as possible and don't worry about how she's going to handle things. Visualize her being a happy, confident dog. I know that sounds like a bunch of voodoo hippie crap, but, for some dogs (especially those who are so very attached to their owners), the way their alpha (you) acts affects everything that they do. That's why a confident dog in the home is another plus - the scared dog learns to look to the confident dog for leadership - the confident dog is not sitting there worried about how Ruby will respond to xyz etc like you are...the confident dog gives off the confident vibes.

 

Have you tried using a DAP diffuser with Ruby? I know some here have had great success with the DAP collar (I think Jen - Neylasmom has used one for Zuri before). My friend's dog was greatly helped by the DAP collar and she does a lot better with thunderstorms now. Again, not a cure-all but it may help ease some of the anxiety without having to drug her up just to keep her calm.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I also hate to say this, but, your OWN anxiety being worried about how Ruby will handle certain situations is probably feeding her anxiety and making it worse.

 

Very possible. Our actions and reactions dictate a lot of canine bahvior because they take cues from us. I'd we're scared or stressed, they have reason to do the same. One of the hardest thing to learn when training or retraining a dog is conditioning yourself to exhibit behaviors and cues that contribute to the response you want rather than the response you fear will likely follow.

[Busderpuddle]

I have tried the DAP diffuser and collar along with Rescue Remedy and several others.

As for her feeding off my anxiety, quite possible. I want her to be comfortable and content and I know she isn't.

When she is anxious she pants, drools, shakes, paces and spins. Occasionally she will put herself in her crate and stand in it and do all the things I mentioned except pace.

When she is having the SA she pants, drools, howls and shakes. She does like to be outside and that does help with the SA when I have to be gone. It is more of a problem in the Winter when I leave her indoors.

Our home is fairly quiet and calm. Just my husband and I. Occasionally we have the grandkids over but Ruby LOVES them and she seems very excited when she see's them. I was told she was raised around some children so is very used to them. She falls right to sleep when my grandson lays on her bed with her to "watch a movie with my Woobie".

She gets daily walks, we play catch everyday, work on training, and she gets plenty of love and attention. Like I said earlier, if I could just sit right beside her every second of every day, there were no loud noises EVER that come from outside (she doesn't seem to notice if we drop a pan or make noise in the house) she would be one very happy girl. Unfortunately, we do have to work to buy her biscuits.

[Guest d0ggiem0mma]

I think you should setup an appointment with jjing's friend. Dose adjustments and medication cocktails for dogs with severe anxiety is tough and most vets just don't have the training or experience to deal with it.

[Guest BrianRke]

I have been in adoption for almost a decade and I've never dealt with a family with an SA dog that WASN'T helped by adding a confident dog to the mix.

 

Since everyone else has covered medication, and krissn333's suggestion is often good "medicine"...

 

We know dogs are "pack" animals by nature. IMHO, I believe this is stronger in retired racing Greyhounds than other dog breeds. Before Greys are adopted into "forever homes" they have been with a full pack of Greyhounds every day since birth, throughout racing training, and during their racing career. It's quite remarkable that most Greyhounds transition into home/family life as well as they do. I don't know Ruby's age or how long you've worked with her SA, but I echo the suggestion to consider bringing in a confident hound on a trial basis, if possible. Some hounds (especially SA hounds) truly benefit from not being an only dog. (Many times older hounds are easier to transition, more confident, independent, and mellow. There are many middle-aged and senior hounds available that are SO EASY to incorporate into a home.)

 

Just one SA example: Even though our own severe separation anxiety hound's attachment object is a human (me), I do believe she would be much worse without at least one other confident, relaxed hound in the house. She is often guided by our other hounds and she is most comfortable being the omega dog (last for everything). She would absolutely be a lost wreck without a "leader" to follow (in the absence of a human during the day). Important for her comfort: Another hound, environmental and human familiarity, routine, and humans who understand fear/anxiety driven behavior.

 

Thank you for your devotion to Ruby and for being willing to help her.

I can only speak from my own experience but Diamond had really bad SA. She was an only dog for almost 2 years. After I adopted 2 more greys, her SA is completely gone. The presence of the other two, however, did not help with the thunder anxiety.

[lovinggreysslp]

Larry had very significant SA (chewing woodwork, howling, breaking out of crate, panting etc) which went completely away as soon as we started fostering and adding to our pack. Some hounds just do significantly better with company. It would be wonderful if you could "borrow" a hound to see if this would help. I know how stressful anxiety can be for both the hound and the humans. Best of luck as you figure out what will best work for Ruby.

[Batmom]

Is she taking any medications or supplements at all, at this time?

 

Can you describe the alone training procedure you've used?

[Guest LoveMyJoseyBean]

Hi! I am serial lurker, who usually doesn't pipe up anymore, but I wanted to add my and share my experience. We got Josey in May of 2008. She had horrible SA, and could never be left alone without being crated. Like destroying woodwork, furniture, draperies, and potty EVERYWHERE, all the while barking and howling. She even once almost got us kicked out of a hotel that my husband was staying in for 6 months for work. Ugly hotel drapes are EXPENSIVE!

 

Fortunately, for the most part she mostly handled the crating pretty well, with the exception of her trying to pull things into the crate to shred. But flash forward to earlier this year, and the crate SA seemed to be escalating slightly. She started shredding the blankets that I used in the crate, (soft beds were out of the question at this point) and when we would come home, she would got nuts. Not a normal, excited nuts, either. Howling, barking, and drooling everywhere. Trying to bust out of the crate before we even made it to the door. Mind you, I NEVER had a single problem getting her to go into it in the morning, she knew the routine. I would give her her cookies and she would bound into the crate as happy as a clam. I tried the DAP diffuser, Rescue Remedy, and Stress-Free Calmplex by Springtime. (I tend to go the natural route with my babies) Nothing worked.

 

I had also been trying to get my husband to agree to getting another hound. Easier said than done It took me 4 years to talk him (begging and harassing)into getting the first, and nearly 3 to get him to wrap his head around the idea of another. He agreed to come with me to our local groups picnic over Memorial Day weekend, but told me "No Hounds today". It was one week before he was to leave to Detroit for work for the next 6 months, and thought it might not be the best time.

 

Long story short, HE fell in love with our new girl, Bertie. HE brought her home with us that day. And I have never had to crate Josey again. In fact, Josey is the one who told me she was done. When I tried to give her her morning cookies before work (and putting her in the crate) Not only would she not take the cookies, but would run to the back of the house.

 

They are perfect angels when I am gone. I have a neighbor that lets them out once or twice a day, and just generally checks to make sure they're ok. To see Josey go from freaking, frothing hound when we walked in the door, to a normally "Hey, you're home! WOW!" kind of excited, with ZERO disasters to clean up virtually overnight...Well, let's just say I'm a believer that if you find a confident pup to even try, it's so totally worth it.