Separation Anxiety And Drugs

[Guest shannon252]

This is a rather long story about one of our adopted dogs that has separation anxiety. I won't go into the whole thing here but, the group feels like it was just a bad placement to begin with (which is another long story) whereas the adopters are now going to try drugs to fix the problem instead of returning him (which is really what should probably happen at this point). Honestly I've never heard a success story where drugs and separation anxiety are concerned so I'm doubly worried about the dog.

 

Does anyone have a success story?

 

Shannon Henson

MoKan Greyhound Adoption

www.mokangreyhounds.org

[Maddiesmom]

Shannon

 

I sent you a PM. Mads had bad SA

 

Amy

[Guest EaglesMom]

I sent you a PM as well.

[Laurenbiz]

Shannon-

 

Greetings from Wisconsin to my hometown! I grew up in KCMO. Go Royals!

 

We've recently started Bernie on Clomipramine for SA. We've had him since October, and he's lost control of his bladder nearly every instance he's been alone since October. Medical problems have been ruled out. Despite alone training, crate training, and obedience training (we did this just to help increase his overall confidence,) we've seen absolutely no progress.

 

Meds never were our ideal option, but we feel we've exhausted all other options.

 

I don't know the story about the adopters you're working with - but I can tell you that neighbors and friends have told Justin and I to just get rid of Bernie! People don't seem to understand that we spent more than a year considering adopting a dog, we prepared for the arrival of this dog, and that we signed up to just not have a pet - but we feel that we signed up to bring a new family member into our lives. We're not going to give up on Bernie!

 

For Clomipramine, though, I've heard lots of great stories. He hasn't been taking the drug long enough yet for us to see any changes yet.

 

Keep us updated

[dante2zoe]

I adopted an elderly whippet with severe SA. That is one reason why he ended up being returned. Anyway, I finally placed him on generiz prozac, which took the edge off enough to work with his issues. That was 3 years ago. He is no longer on the medication. He still urinates in the house, but that's due to other health issues, but hasn't destroyed anythign in the house for years. Thankfully, it worked for us. Nothing else did. But, I also had two greys in the house with him.

[NeylasMom]

Meds can certainly be effective for a dog that has separation anxiety. In some cases it's a lifesaver, literally. We have had a number of fosters over the years with varying degrees of SA who we eventually put on medication after finding behavioral training ineffective on its own who became very happy compliant dogs who we were then able to do the behavioral training with.

 

Having said that, if the dog has anxiety because of poor management by his owners and could be SA free without medication in another home, then I would understand your encouraging them to return the dog. But, if they really love the dog and are committed to making it work, maybe the medication is worth a shot as a last ditch effort. Can you ask them to agree to also working with a behaviorist (that they pay for as I find people are often more receptive to suggestions from a paid behaviorist than a volunteer with a group no matter how knowledgeable the latter)as part of the commitment to keep him and continue working with him because that is much more likely to be effective than just putting him on the meds alone? Maybe let them know what you would do if you got the dog back - hire a behaviorist for a consult, if recommended start him on meds and do alone training (go into detail - will require this amount of time each day for approximately this many months) and suggest that if they don't think they have the ability to do the same for whatever reason that they consider more strongly giving him back?

 

A lot of times I think it's about getting them to see what's best for the dog and allowing them to reach the decision on their own without feeling judged. Not saying your doing otherwise, just sharing what I've learned over my years of handling returns in case its helpful.

 

All of that aside, my answer again to your actual question is that yes, meds can be very effective.

Edited February 4, 2011 by NeylasMom

[Guest ctgreylover]

Long story short for me.... Tony has SA - I had him on clonicalm (sp?) I made several mistakes trying to figure it all out but we have it mostly figured out now. He loves his crate. He hates being locked in my bedroom and is nervous with free reign of the whole house. Baby gated in the kitchen works if the crate is unavailable.

He sometimes has setbacks and I will put him back on meds. He also does well with classical music. He gets limp like jello!

He does not destroy furniture - he pees - he barks and whines all day -

I know there are dogs that have destroyed couches and walls etc.

Meds can help. Sometimes , its just not a good fit.

[Laurenbiz]

Long story short for me.... Tony has SA - I had him on clonicalm (sp?) I made several mistakes trying to figure it all out but we have it mostly figured out now. He loves his crate. He hates being locked in my bedroom and is nervous with free reign of the whole house. Baby gated in the kitchen works if the crate is unavailable.

He sometimes has setbacks and I will put him back on meds. He also does well with classical music. He gets limp like jello!

He does not destroy furniture - he pees - he barks and whines all day -

I know there are dogs that have destroyed couches and walls etc.

Meds can help. Sometimes , its just not a good fit.

 

 

What sorts of composers work well with him? I've tried the 'calming dog CDs' with Bernie - what a waste! But, I've never though of the classical music. I have lots of Chopin and DeBussy CDs, though...

[seeh2o]

Carl is most definitely a clomipramine success story. He had terrible SA, broke the soldering on a wire crate to get out, tore up my front door and the casing, howling, pooping, peeing, destroying furniture, tearing down curtains and shades, trying to jump on furniture to get to a window....I did alone training, walked him 3 miles through steep hillside trails in the morning before work etc., but finally resorted to medication.

 

Initially, when working up to a therapeutic dose of clomipramine I would have to give him Valium just to be able to leave the house. Once it kicked in we did even more alone training, I got free behavioral consultations from the group who adopted us (Carl was from an all-breed rescue kennel in the high desert, so a local greyhound group adopted us), continued with the walks, took an obedience training class (also free - we were given a scholarship) and I learned that the muzzle can be a good tool. He was on the meds for about 4 - 5 months. In retrospect, I wish I'd left him on for 2 - 3 months longer just so the new behaviors would have been a bit more ingrained when I weaned him off.

 

He has been off the meds for 2 years now, he has had a few incidents of backsliding, but they have never been too bad. He still howls for about 50 seconds after I've left the house, but that's it. No more destruction, no more peeing or pooping in the house. It was a godsend to us as were the free behavioral consultations and obedience classes, too.

 

I still contact the group's behavioral person from time to time to update her and to ask questions. She was amazing, she really really listened, crawled inside both our heads and came up with some dead-on suggestions. He would not have come this far on meds alone, her help was invaluable. I could never have afforded the services of a behaviorist, she literally spent hours talking with me and contacting me via email.

Edited February 5, 2011 by seeh2o

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

Tempe has pretty bad SA, damaged walls, destroyed crates, poops and pees on the floor. She has been on clomipramine for a year. I have tried to take her off, she is not ready. She is on a very low dose. It doesn't affect her personality in a bad way, she is much happier. She still has bad days, if there is a lot of commotion in our house (like putting up the Christmas tree) but nothing like the suffering she was in before. We are all much happier now that she has calmed down. We have had a lot of success with anti-anxiety drugs. Good luck!

[Willowsmum]

You are so lucky! The behaviorist recommended by our vet cost $300 to start, and we could NOT afford it!

The clomicalm is helping Willow, but we are hoping to see more improvement in the months to come.

[Guest shannon252]

I'm wondering if I need to ask my question in a different way because almost all of the success stories seem to have the same thing in common so, does anyone have a success story of separation anxiety treated with drugs when the dog is an ONLY DOG?

[Maddiesmom]

I'm wondering if I need to ask my question in a different way because almost all of the success stories seem to have the same thing in common so, does anyone have a success story of separation anxiety treated with drugs when the dog is an ONLY DOG?

 

 

Shannon

Maddie is an only dog. I used meds (clomicalm) as a last resort along with taking her out of the crate (as she ate her way out of 3, 1 plastic and 2 wire) and she is fine now.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Maddiesmom

[Laurenbiz]

I'm wondering if I need to ask my question in a different way because almost all of the success stories seem to have the same thing in common so, does anyone have a success story of separation anxiety treated with drugs when the dog is an ONLY DOG?

 

I hope I will, over the course of the next few months!

 

Bernie has a cat sister, but that's it. Since we really have no proof that another dog with him would really help him, we're not ready to just throw another hound into the mix. Bernie is not balanced by himself, and we're determined to get him - and only him - happy and balanced in life before we want to add another dog into our lives.

 

I do know a woman who has pedigree Golden Retrievers and Corgis. She does shows and agility with all of them. Even though she has four dogs in her home, one of the Goldens has terrible SA even with three other dogs with her all the time.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

Tempe could really give a hoot about the other dogs, her SA is focused on me. It took a few months for her to stop crying when I left, even if other members of the family were home. Another dog can help, but I wouldn't get another dog just for that reason, it doesn't always help.

[Guest shannon252]

Our dog in question IS a happy dog when he's with other dogs. Again, it was a bad placement that I will take full responsibility for. What we thought the home situation would be and what it is in reality are two different things. He just shouldn't have gone into that home. I'm not saying they are bad dog parents necessarily, I'm definitely saying we placed the wrong dog with them.

 

LaurenBiz, I completely understand your way of thought however, you might be shocked at how fast most S.A. dogs (certainly not all) become perfectly balanced once a second dog is introduced. Even though it seems extreme, it's still the fastest and most reliable fix I know of.

 

4dogscrazy, I have one of those too. Once I stopped crating him and used the DAP diffuser for several months he was in pretty good shape. He's still a bit of a nut but, doesn't show any S.A. signs now.

[seeh2o]

I had a very old non grey girl when I brought Carl home. The never really bonded, so it was as if Carl were an only dog, all his destruction and carrying on went on when Sheila was there. When I got Claire, 2 years ago, Carl's SA flared up for about a month. The only reason he wasn't destructive was because he was muzzled. Having a second greyhound was not helpful to Carl. He has actually had a negative effect on her behavior, she now stands, pants and whines in the car, which she never did before and she participates in the howl fest when I leave the house.

[Guest avadogner]

I had a very old non grey girl when I brought Carl home. The never really bonded, so it was as if Carl were an only dog, all his destruction and carrying on went on when Sheila was there. When I got Claire, 2 years ago, Carl's SA flared up for about a month. The only reason he wasn't destructive was because he was muzzled. Having a second greyhound was not helpful to Carl. He has actually had a negative effect on her behavior, she now stands, pants and whines in the car, which she never did before and she participates in the howl fest when I leave the house.

 

 

I have found myself in a very similar situation. Ava has the only dog for 9yrs when we decided to chip. Her health is failing and she became depressed and out vet thought a buddy might help. It has but it has also brought out a bad side to her. She bullies sometimes (taking his fav bed, giving stink eye-nothing too aggressive). We are working with her on it but her. Augie takes it but it increases his anxiety level when tiffs happen. Augie is incredibly social and loves all dogs. He is a highly submissive male and requires someone to lead him at all times. We were warned our new boy was "very verbal". He whines and talks all the time. Sometimes he whines just to make noise and get attention (which we do not engage him until he stops) I have a thread about it (would you like some whine and cheese). He cries in this high pitch cry when he gets bored or lonely.

 

Ava and Augie tested as a good pairing but her health is getting pretty bad and she just can't play with him. I know her pain is contributing to her dismissal of him. I just need to get him to a place where he can handle a little quiet time (like a night of sleep for us) His great socialabiltiy is turning on him and making him anxious. A home with lots of kids would have been better for him but I love him and can't return him. Augie will make a great Hand and Paw dog when he matures more. He loves all kinds or people and busy noisy environments. His SA is triggered when I am sleeping, go into a room and shut a door, if he goes outside and we close the door (fenced yard) or when he feels ignored. . Putting outside just tortures him ,us and our neighbors. Now Ava is joining in on the 15 minute rooing jags. I continue to work with him but have started to consider a mild anti anxiety med. He's been in our 5 months and we continue to work with him daily. Medicating is a last resort but he's so anxious when he isn't recieving constant attention. I do not work for health reasons so he is rarely left with just Ava. On days I get out even just an hour, he has GI distress and cries constantly for hours even after I am back home.

 

I know in my heart that adding a playful dog would most likely help him but it is not possible until I either get my transplant or Ava passes away. I just want him to be happy.

-ava and augie's mum