Tips For Helping A Shy Greyhound

[Guest AnnieAreYouOK]

I suggest you find books targeted to greyhounds. There is a very big difference between a working breed and a retired racer. Too much training on some greyhounds will make them regress. Training a hound is quite different than other breeds and it sounds like your girl needs some time.

 

The biggest advice I can give to you is -- relax. Love, patience and independence (allowing it) goes a long way. I've seen greys come out in weeks and years -- Mizzy just started playing with stuffies this year and has been with me over 3.

 

Are there books specifically geared towards shy greyhounds? I've read the Dummies book and I found it to be repetitive and not very useful. Like the part about sit. What makes them think a greyhound would sit if you just hold a treat above her head?

I found that the books for training shy dogs were much more useful, at least in Annie's case.

 

 

 

I will share some things I have learned:

 

Do not play tug of war with a greyhound and a bag of rice.

 

When they go out walking fine and walk in limping on one leg, check their foot for poop.

 

Do not teach "speak" if you do not want them to "speak" every time they want something.

 

That tug of war sounds like a good idea, thanks. I always give her a chewing treat at night and I'll try with that.

 

She walks fine and jogs fine if there are no people approaching. You mean check her foot to see if she stepped on poop? Haha, I hadn't thought of that. I'd probably see it or smell it once she gets in the house.

 

She doesn't make any sound. Sometimes she would sleep talk but that's it. When she wants to go pee, she would look outside then look at me. Do you have any tips on getting her to talk? I've read that barking also helps their confidence, but she has never done it.

[Guest AnnieAreYouOK]

I have The Other End of the Leash, but I don't think Patricia McConell has a book specifically for shy dogs.

 

Wait, she has The Cautious Canine. I'll get that one.

[Guest AnnieAreYouOK]

I just noticed that she stole a whole bag of treats today when I wasn't home. I'm actually kinda proud of her cos that means she learned to step on my chair. I'm gonna leave a treat on my bed everyday now and move it further so maybe she would learn how to jump on her own.

[greymatters]

 

That tug of war sounds like a good idea, thanks. I always give her a chewing treat at night and I'll try with that.

 

I would NOT play tug of war with a chew treat, or with any food item. Food is not a toy IMO.

 

If your pup is shy and is still very new to your home, she might not be ready for this type of play yet. In any case, we like rope toys for tug games with our boy.

[Yamaha_gurl]

You could leaver her crate open and make a little trail of treats I did that once, but she didn't take any of them. I'm sure my Bella also sleeps all day

[Guest KennelMom]

She may not be shy...that may just be her personality. Not every dog is a social butterfly - nor wants to be. Just like you have a personality, so do dogs. It's too early to say one way or other. Maybe she'll change. Maybe she won't. You need to be OK with either outcome.

 

She sounds exactly like my first greyhound when I brought her home. And, actually, that's pretty much how she still is. I'm so thankful that I had my experience with Haley to teach me that this dog/human relationship is just that...a relationship - not a dictatorship. I chose to bring her in to my life...she didn't choose to come here. So, why should I expect her world and personality to operate on my time table and desires? She is who she is. Your life with dogs will be much richer if you put your ego aside and let your dog be what she is. Continue to offer opportunities, but let the dog choose them at their own pace.

 

Five weeks is nothing. A drop in the bucket. You are definitely expecting way too much, way too soon. And, if she is like my Haley, she'll probably want to stay even further away from you if you keep pushing. Just relax and give it time.

 

I would say she's probably not even a really shy dog so I think she can definitely become normal eventually. I just want it to happen sooner rather than later.

 

Comments like this are really off-putting.

 

We've adopted shy, spooks, independent, under-socialized, aloof and dogs that are the exact opposite of all those things and countless combinations of those traits. What they all need are time, love and acceptance. Some need more formal training than others - though it's usually the dogs who have "too much personality" that need the formal training. Most just need to figure things out on their own terms. Greyhounds are an independent lot...they're supposed to be. They often don't take kindly to being led to water and then being forced to drink, so to speak.

Edited November 17, 2010 by KennelMom

[Guest AnnieAreYouOK]

I'm only doing positive training. I don't force her to do anything or punish her for anything. I don't understand why it's so wrong to encourage her to take a treat. She loves cheese and never passes up an opportunity to eat it unless her peripheral nervous system takes over when she's outside. She always gets her treat, so why not let her learn something in the process?

 

I don't agree with letting her figure out things on her own, and that's not what I've read from all the books. Shy dogs and aggressive dogs all need training. Training is supposed to help them cope with their fears. Her personality might not change but you can help them deal with it. When the PNS takes over, she can use her training to fight her flight instinct. For example, when Annie is in the yard and I try to close the door, she wouldn't come forward because she thinks I'm taking her outside again. But if I say "touch", she would come forward and forget about her fear because she has been conditioned that way.

 

I am actually thinking about getting some private training lessons, but I don't know any good experienced trainers that deal with shy dogs in my area.

[Guest KennelMom]

Yeah...you're probably right. what do I know. My advice only comes from owning nearly 30 hounds, at least a couple we were specifically asked to adopt because the dogs were so shy that they were considered unadoptable. Dogs who have since gone lure coursing, among other activities. Good luck with Annie...

[Batmom]

I don't agree with letting her figure out things on her own, and that's not what I've read from all the books.

 

Those particular books are flat-out wrong.

 

You've had her five weeks. She's showing every sign of needing time to sit back, observe, and suss things out. Let her do that.

 

She's afraid of people approaching, and trucks? The last thing she needs is another command to focus on -- or to avoid those things. Find a spot where she can observe those things from a distance that's just barely comfortable for her, and let her watch. Breathe, laugh a little, let her watch. Next day a half step closer. Next day a half step closer.

 

There are a lot of things she's likely never seen before -- or never seen in quite this context -- and a lot of new routines, smells, sounds to learn in your household. Let her observe and learn those things.

 

When she's coming out of the crate on her own looking for new things to do, pulling you in a new direction on walks, going out in the yard and starting to dig a hole or roll in the grass, coming in every time you ask and not being afraid of your presence ... THEN she's ready for more explicit training.

 

 

 

ETA: There are instances of shy/spooky dogs where I would recommend training so the dog has something else to focus on, but all your descriptions point to a dog who's simply overwhelmed. Her brain is full. Relax and focus on the routine of daily living.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Batmom

[robinw]

Why are you so intent on so much training this early on? We've all related out experiences and we've all had pretty much the same response. What adoption group was she from? Have you asked them for advice? I'll bet that they would give you the same responses that you've received here. Where in Toronto do you live? Maybe we can meet up and take our dogs for a walk sometime soon. Meeting and walking with other greyhounds might relax Annie. I'm in Kitchener, so I'm pretty close.

[JohnF]

What helped my semi-spooky little Peggy was without any doubt the use of Turid Rugass's Calming Signals. Though maybe if the trainer I called in hadn't demonstrated to me that they really do work I might have half-heartedly pooh-poohed it as just another of those training fads that come and go. But when you think about it, the poor dog was like she had been dumped in the middle of a strange country where no-body spoke the language and did regular greyhound things.

So getting 2-way conversations going with the humans drained a huge amount of the stress away.

 

Every dog is different and they all tread their own paths to domesticity. That first little frisson of waggy tail, that fist friendly nudge, that first look-back to see if you're coming, that first tenative approach to climbing on the bed, and that first day when all the routines click are revalatory, and often tear-provoking.

 

I kept a day-to-day diary of Peggy settling in (it's much too long to post here), but reading back over it shows just how far we have come. I was thinking of that today when I took her to the vet's office. I thought I detetected possible Kennel Cough yesterday when after hard exercise she was unusually coughing white foam instead of the occasional clean gag or two as normal for her as she gets her breath back. Well it turned out I was almost certainly right, and had caught it early, after the vet had climbed into the back of the van to examine her (sore tracheal cough reflex, watery nose, occasional coughs like reverse sneezing but subtly different). There is NO WAY she would have allowed that vet in her van without freaking out in early days but there she was, with a lovely soft eye, normal heartbeat, not even a grumble about the thermometer or the throat pinch.

It is also heartening to know that if anything happened to me and she needed a new home, provided that the new people spoke 'Calming Signals' she'd be more than OK.

Edited November 18, 2010 by JohnF

[Guest AnnieAreYouOK]

Why are you so intent on so much training this early on? We've all related out experiences and we've all had pretty much the same response. What adoption group was she from? Have you asked them for advice? I'll bet that they would give you the same responses that you've received here. Where in Toronto do you live? Maybe we can meet up and take our dogs for a walk sometime soon. Meeting and walking with other greyhounds might relax Annie. I'm in Kitchener, so I'm pretty close.

 

I have followed the methods that I've read from certified trainers that specialize in shy dogs, and most of the methods have worked so far. She is already enjoying me petting her. They all suggest to use positive training to help the dog's confidence and she has already learned some basic commands. I got her from GRA and I take Annie to the South Simcoe run every week.

 

For example, this is the kind of detailed methods that I'm looking for:

"Your first goal is to make him trust you. One owner purchased a pound of chicken livers, cooked them and then laid down on the floor with some chicken livers on her body and the rest trailing away at approximately five feet. She spoke to her dog softly, but laid still, avoiding eye contact. When he had eaten them all, she padded him enthusiastically on his sides saying what a good boy he had been. Your dog may run away at this point, but this is a trust building exercise. "

http://www.essortment.com/hobbies/dogtrainingtip_sbbn.htm

 

I have done exactly this where I lied down and she slowly ate out of my hands and it worked perfectly. If I had just let her figure out things on her own, it could take her months to gain my trust.

 

You guys seem to think positive training means "overwhelming her" for some reason. That's not what positive training is. If she does something right, she gets a reward and she learns it. If she doesn't do it, then I just keep waiting until she does and only then I click. I don't force her to do anything. I'm only helping her to learn. For example, right now I am trying to teach to jump on my bed. I just leave a trail of cheese on my bed when I leave. I can see that she ate them after I came back, which means she jumped up. I just wasn't around to click it. I don't see how this is overwhelming her in any way.

 

 

 

I kept a day-to-day diary of Peggy settling in (it's much too long to post here), but reading back over it shows just how far we have come.

 

Hi John, I would love to know what you've done, especially all the minor details. I will look into Turid Rugass' book.

[greytpups]

Why are you so intent on so much training this early on? We've all related out experiences and we've all had pretty much the same response. What adoption group was she from? Have you asked them for advice? I'll bet that they would give you the same responses that you've received here. Where in Toronto do you live? Maybe we can meet up and take our dogs for a walk sometime soon. Meeting and walking with other greyhounds might relax Annie. I'm in Kitchener, so I'm pretty close.

 

I have followed the methods that I've read from certified trainers that specialize in shy dogs, and most of the methods have worked so far. She is already enjoying me petting her. They all suggest to use positive training to help the dog's confidence and she has already learned some basic commands. I got her from GRA and I take Annie to the South Simcoe run every week.

 

For example, this is the kind of detailed methods that I'm looking for:

"Your first goal is to make him trust you. One owner purchased a pound of chicken livers, cooked them and then laid down on the floor with some chicken livers on her body and the rest trailing away at approximately five feet. She spoke to her dog softly, but laid still, avoiding eye contact. When he had eaten them all, she padded him enthusiastically on his sides saying what a good boy he had been. Your dog may run away at this point, but this is a trust building exercise. "

http://www.essortmen...ingtip_sbbn.htm

 

I have done exactly this where I lied down and she slowly ate out of my hands and it worked perfectly. If I had just let her figure out things on her own, it could take her months to gain my trust.

 

You guys seem to think positive training means "overwhelming her" for some reason. That's not what positive training is. If she does something right, she gets a reward and she learns it. If she doesn't do it, then I just keep waiting until she does and only then I click. I don't force her to do anything. I'm only helping her to learn. For example, right now I am trying to teach to jump on my bed. I just leave a trail of cheese on my bed when I leave. I can see that she ate them after I came back, which means she jumped up. I just wasn't around to click it. I don't see how this is overwhelming her in any way.

 

 

 

I kept a day-to-day diary of Peggy settling in (it's much too long to post here), but reading back over it shows just how far we have come.

 

Hi John, I would love to know what you've done, especially all the minor details. I will look into Turid Rugass' book.

 

We're only trying to offer assistance. If you post on a public forum, you're going to get a variety of answers, some you will find helpful and some you won't. However, there's many of us that have shy dogs and this is what worked for us. It may not work for every dog but you asked for training tips. Secondly, reading and talking are very different, so we can only reply based on your written word. I know a wee bit of the background here because I'm also a member on the GRA forum. I expressed my concern about your expectations about Annie, not because I want to disrespect you, rather I love this breed so much, I cry when greys are pts and I've never even met them, etc. etc. I'm sure others feel the same way. We are concerned about the well-being. Many people here have years of experience and if I ask for advice, even if I don't like it, I try to keep myself open to the opportunity to learn. If someone suggests not overwhelming Annie, it may because they have been there, done that, and don't want you to experience the same thing.

[Guest Bill96]

Time and routine are my advice. It takes time and you also have to be realistic. She will advance to a certain point and then that may be it. As we all know, each one has its own personality and limits. The more routine things are the more settled they become, because they feel they can depend on things and you. Hang in there.

[robinw]

Those training methods and fine and dandy, but you're using a textbook and expecting textbook results. IMO, you need to have some flexibility and alter your methods to fit Annie. Shortly after I adopted Treasure, I took her to obedience school. During those six weeks, she learned nothing! Never learned to sit, never learned down, never learned anything. She just stood there. It didn't matter, because she was already so much better trained than all of the other dogs, that I realized that she would learn in her own way, and that the methods in the school (which also used positive training) just didn't work for her. Maybe it's time to rethink your expectations and to slow it down a bit. Most of all, relax. Annie will come around on her own.

[Batmom]

have some flexibility and alter your methods to fit Annie. Shortly after I adopted Treasure, I took her to obedience school. During those six weeks, she learned nothing! Never learned to sit, never learned down, never learned anything. She just stood there.

 

Part of what Robin is pointing out is that in order for training to be useful -- rather than a null value or even harmful -- the dog has to be in a receptive state.

 

The first @ 2-3 months Joseph was here, he was "deer in the headlights." We learned to go up and down the stairs and not to pee in the house. When he had some moments of comfort and receptiveness, we learned to sit and politely shake hands, and we introduced a few commands in an easygoing, nondemanding, "name what he's already doing" sort of way. Otherwise, we just followed daily routines and let him get comfortable. And he is by no means a shy, spooky, or nervous dog. It just took him awhile, as it often does, to make sense of the transition from familiar kennel to Mars-like home living. Once he'd done that, we built more distinct training into our interactive time, largely because he enjoyed it. Some dogs don't, and if they are easy to live with, I don't bother them with things like targeting, flying finish, etc. No point.

 

The very shy/spooky dogs I've worked with, really the same thing. They have to be receptive before training makes any sense. Sometimes you can get that receptivity in little bits and pieces through the day, but only when you've created a routine/time of comfort and security first.

[Guest dee]

As I began to write this Micah came over to me and put his head under my hand for a little loving.......it's two and one half months shy of Micah's Gotcha day. He has come soooooooooo far!!!! He was shy and spooky when I came to this forum for help. I followed the advice which was given. Patience,patience, patience, gentle, gentle, gentle mixed with lots of petting and encouragement!!!! We did what you might consider no "training". He is now ready for any training that we might want to do but we gave him his safe space to acclimate and for us to just love each other. It was really good advice that was given on this forum. It comes from many years of experience with all the different personalities that greys can have. I'm so grateful for the kind words of encouragement that we received and I hope you read all the words and follow the advice. good luck to you and try to enjoy your new grey as he is now and just know that you are going to be witness to a wonderful process. Give him the time he needs and you can use the time to get to know this dog and love him.

[Guest GreyHawk]

Chill out

 

I don't know about the Greyhound but you're making me nervous

[greymatters]

Chill out

 

I don't know about the Greyhound but you're making me nervous

Perhaps that's what has me coming back to this thread again. I limited my earlier comments to specific training techniques because I was confident that the experienced folks would weigh in on the timing and patience issues - as they have done, and very nicely. Over and over, people who have adopted dozens (hundreds?) of greyhounds are offering you their best advice: relax, take it slowly, give her time to adjust. I honestly don't get why you are so resistant to this approach.

 

Why are you so intent on so much training this early on?

 

I have followed the methods that I've read from certified trainers that specialize in shy dogs, and most of the methods have worked so far...If I had just let her figure out things on her own, it could take her months to gain my trust.

But it probably *will* take months, and so what? Real trust takes time. Training can help her to cope with her fears, but I don't think that's the quite same thing .

 

You guys seem to think positive training means "overwhelming her" for some reason. That's not what positive training is. If she does something right, she gets a reward and she learns it. If she doesn't do it, then I just keep waiting until she does and only then I click. I don't force her to do anything. I'm only helping her to learn. For example, right now I am trying to teach to jump on my bed. I just leave a trail of cheese on my bed when I leave. I can see that she ate them after I came back, which means she jumped up. I just wasn't around to click it. I don't see how this is overwhelming her in any way.

Again, please consider that your girl is already overwhelmed by the newness of, well, everything in her life. Asking her to "learn" more new things might just be too much at this stage. (Scare quotes because I have no way of knowing how much she is truly "learning" at this point. )

 

... There are instances of shy/spooky dogs where I would recommend training so the dog has something else to focus on, but all your descriptions point to a dog who's simply overwhelmed. Her brain is full. Relax and focus on the routine of daily living.

As Batmom, robinw, KennelMom, and others have pointed out - training only works if your dog is in a receptive frame of mind. If she's not (because her brain is full!) then pushing her to "learn" might be counterproductive. The worry is that she'll withdraw further, which is exactly the opposite of what you want.

 

As a relatively new greyhound parent, I completely understand your desire to connect with your new girl and the urgency you feel about starting her training off on the right foot. We felt the same way when our Merlin first came home and he is most decidedly not shy! But he was overwhelmed and unsure at the beginning as most seem to be - sometimes the hardest thing was to do nothing, ignore him, and let him explore at his own pace, when I just wanted to fuss all over him. We hope to have a lot of years together, though, so we figured we could well afford to be patient.

[Guest AnnieAreYouOK]

She's afraid of people approaching, and trucks? The last thing she needs is another command to focus on -- or to avoid those things. Find a spot where she can observe those things from a distance that's just barely comfortable for her, and let her watch. Breathe, laugh a little, let her watch. Next day a half step closer. Next day a half step closer.

 

Maybe I'm not wording it correctly, but I would call this training too. It doesn't have to involve commands.

 

She's fine with people from a distance. It's when I'm taking her out to poop, and when there are people walking towards her that she would turn back. I'm not sure how I can get her "a half step closer" when the guy in front of me is just gonna keep walking forward. Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying correctly.

 

What I've read is that you are supposed to get your friends to act as strangers and throw her treats from a distance while looking away. And you start this from inside the house where she has her crate to fall back to. That way it'll be done in a controlled environment and it won't put unnecessary stress on her. I have been doing this in the house and she is already taking treats out of my mother's hands. She is still wary of one of my friends though. When it's outside, it's just too far away from her comfort zone and the only response she will have is just flight.

 

Right now I just pick the route with the least people and if I see someone walking towards us, I just go around them or cross the street. I feel like people approaching her right now will only add unnecessary stress and it doesn't have to be in her life right now. So I'm just going to completely avoid it until she expands her comfort zone. Maybe you don't agree with this, but this is what I've read and it's been working so far.

 

 

 

Also, obedience school is gonna be way too much for her. I am looking at private lessons cos I know I'm probably doing a lot of things wrong. Someone has recommended this to me, not sure how good they are.

http://www.dogtrainingthatworks.com/

[Batmom]

OK, I wouldn't avoid people in that context. You don't have to make her wallow in them, but unless she totally freaks out, I wouldn't cross the street, make huge circles around them, etc. You don't want to teach her that people are scary or to be avoided. They're going to pass in a second or two. I'd just laugh at her, keep walking if that's what you were doing, and "Eaaaaaasy."

 

If she does freak out -- shrieking, snapping, flopping like a fish at the end of a leash -- I'd get a secure harness on her ASAP. And I would take her some places like schoolbus stop, playground, church parking lot, where she can watch people from a safe distance.

[robinw]

The only thing you're doing wrong is putting too much pressure on both yourself and your poor dog. RELAX!!!!

 

Really, you're doing fine, you just worry too much about things.

Edited November 20, 2010 by robinw

[Guest KansasGrey]

When I read this thread Thursday night I was so upset I couldn't get to sleep. I kept thinking about clickers, books and a dog bone between your eyes. I felt so sorry for Annie. I am certainly not a greyhound expert. We do have three greys and have fostered five this year. Our shy fosters are treated just the same as our own. The only thing expected of them was to go outside for potty breaks with our dogs and not to be destructive. Each dog is different and each progressed at their own pace. It is so rewarding to see the progress they make on their own. Going from not wanting you to approach them to wiggling with joy when you come home. The only thing I pushed was giving them hugs. If you only have the one grey then she can't learn from watching other dogs. I've noticed our fosters (from the farms) really watch our dogs and go along with what they do. Please be patient with her and she will learn. Let her get used to her surroundings and you. We flunked fostering last May and that girl's personality is just now starting to come out more each day. Put the books and clicker on the shelf and let Annie be the book you read.

 

Good luck!

 

Jan

[Guest Vers]

You've gotten a lot of really excellent advice from wonderful people who have had more greyhounds than I can ever hope to have in my lifetime. If you would just take one thing from them, let it be the advice to be patient. Your girl is smart and willing, and your job right now is to not overwhelm her.

 

This is my Stella. You can read that post and read between the lines how far she's come. It has taken a year. We still have more to do together, but the important thing is she trusts me and her confidence steadily grows. We worked on the essentials first; doing stairs, pottying outside, not molesting my cats. Very basic. Now she will give me a sit or downward dog on request. Everything we work on now is built on the early weeks of taking it slow and easy.

 

Dunno how popular this idea will be here, but I think of working with greys the way I used to with horses. Slow, steady, soft voice, set up rituals, curry them, feed them, care for them, shape them. But pretty much before I can do anything, I need to make sure they feel safe and loved. We need trust between us.

 

That takes more time than you are imagining right now. You're on the right track, but slow it down and let your Annie feel loved.

[Yamaha_gurl]

I'm thinking perhaps that's the type of person you are (Annie's dad), you are more of the ordered, perfectionist type? I can see how you'd want things to work, and line up, and Annie to be the best dog ever...however, this one's somewhat outta your control. Just like some people are shy and some totally outgoing, I think it's the same with dogs. You what I mean?

 

I know you truly want what's best, take it a step at a time, give that sweet girl some kisses, and enjoy being a daddy