Ehrlichia Hound's Red Bumps Are Back.

[Guest ChasesMum]

So she doesnt have the hives like she did originally, like in my original post, though there are still a few of those that didnt go away, and a few that are left are a ridged bullseye reminiscent of ringworm but I dont think that is it... they still have hair in the center and started out as a hive-type thing.

 

she has smaller not really raised bumps between her back legs, and around and on her vulva and anus. nice. some under her armpits as well. she seemed to have a couple hive type things around her mouth on one side.

 

i want to scream. ** is wrong with my dog! I am removing all bedding tonight. she is on boiled hamburger, egg and rice and some kibble though I am considering turfing the bag and getting something else. something else completley. (she is on Kirkland lamb and rice and has been for a few years doing fine) because she had a rough weekend complete with vommitting and diarrhea. see this post

 

I don't know if I should take her in again tomorrow, if I should go see our original vet, or the one who thought of and diagnosed a TBD and prescribed the meds and has seen her most recently. Both clinics are agreeing on the conservative dosage of Doxy. Part of me wonders if Imizol is a better idea, or if raising the dose of Doxy would help or if it would make everything worse.

 

Edited July 13, 2010 by ChasesMum

[Batmom]

Is she on supportive meds for her tummy while on Doxy? That is worth asking about. How long has she been off the pred?

[Guest ChasesMum]

She is on ranitidine liquid (though I asked for Sucralfate). She was on pepcid before.

 

She has been off the pred only for a couple days. do they need to detox from it? Or maybe it was helping some? i don't know anymore.

 

i just want a magic pill to cure her. Or if I felt more reassured that our vets have seen this time and time again and it just takes a few weeks or a month or two to run its course and she will be ok. But of course this is the first flippin TBD they have seen in their 30+ yr old practices. They just arent seen here in Canada.

 

Oh and today sne decided it would be a good idea to start limping.

Edited July 13, 2010 by ChasesMum

[Batmom]

The red bumps sound like immune condition, and that could be left over from the pred (not saying it is, but it could be). If the vomiting/diarrhea continue, you may have to switch her off the doxy . Here in the U.S., North Carolina State University has a tick-borne disease lab that's considered the gold standard; your vet could call them or email one of the principal investigators and ask about her symptoms, alternative treatments, etc. They seem like a pretty responsive bunch. Here is the website: http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vth/ticklab.html

[Guest ChasesMum]

thanks! I will send the info on to the vets, give him more people to contact who have a clue what they are looking at and dealing with <G>. v&d are under control tho, that's still ok today.

 

her leg she is limping on (left front), her upper "arm" (above the elbow) us red and warm and sore. and DH sees the the bumps between her thighs are definitley getting worse again. So apparently its back to the doc for us. I will call him in the morning, see if he can do xrays there, or if we should take her to see our regular vet who has lab and xray in office.

Edited July 13, 2010 by ChasesMum

[duncan41]

Hoping and praying that you find that magic pill. Sending prayers for your girl.

 

 

[HopeForHounds]

Damn, I was really hoping she would improve. Please have your vet contact the ones at NC State. I'm worried that the cautious approach the vets are taking just isn't enough.

 

As for the red, warm and sore leg - that is Jake's symptoms for TBD.

 

Continuin prayers. Let me know if you want to talk. I'm home all day tomorrow.

[Guest KreweOfRoo]

Eddited and reposted another response....seems my train of thought and keyboard did not see eye to eye....

Edited July 13, 2010 by KreweOfRoo

[Guest KreweOfRoo]

Having dealt with Ehrlichia and Babesia....what are her titer rates? With the TBD's I have dealt with, I went with Imizol...2 injections 2 weeks apart and all is good now. Yes the injection sites can be sore and sometimes the hounds don't tollerate them, but the Imizol does work. We will titer again in 6 months and again in 1 year.

Hope you get it under control and your baby feels better soon.

[Guest ChasesMum]

I have no idea what her titer rates are. i will ask tomorrow...

 

Janet, I was going to take my kids out to a playdate but I am not sure now. You could always call in the early evening tho i will do my best to update tomorrow after I talk with and potentially see the vet.

[tbhounds]

Is she itchy?? Did they do a skin scrape or are they running a fungal culture? It might be time to see a derm Dr.

[Guest ChasesMum]

she doesnt seem itchy. He did do a FNA and cytology when she had the hives before, i didnt get told specifically of the results, I would imagine they showed nothing interesting or he would have said. i really would be shocked if it showed anything, like I said they just looked that way with a ring of red leftover from the hives. these hives were huge, the ones that left that kind of mark were the size of small marbles under her skin.

[Guest ChasesMum]

So they are thinking that there is an immune mediated something-or-other in conjunction with the ehrlichiosis. So they want to start here back on the pred becasue she started going downhill once we stopped it. (restart at 25mg once a day), and increase the Doxy to 200mg BID. so... yeah.

 

The red spots are hemmorage spots, and the edema and swollen leg are likely from the ehrlichiosis as well (had x-rays done this morning, its all soft tissue, no boney involvement)

 

One nice thing is that the other vet at our regular office is from Venezuela and she has treated LOTS of TBD dogs. So she was able to look and confirm that all the ups and downs and issues and etc. are all fairly common and typical occurrences and are "normal" and to be expected. So that made me feel better, that it was a typical sort of reaction, and that these things take time to respond.

 

Maybe we can stop hemmoraging money now!

[Guest ChasesMum]

chase's poor leg! Its so swollen. she has a cankle! Its too too reminiscent of George's legs in his last week of life, but i am trying to remind myself that edema and things are common with ehrlichiosis, and her xrays were clear.

 

What can I do to help her out? icepack? we went for a slow short walk last night which maybe wasnt a good plan in hindsight, but she wanted to go so bad! And I figured if she wanted to, then maybe she was up for it.

 

Man 24 hours after we raised the Doxy dose she seemed to improve! though the pred side effects are not helpful.

[greyhead]

I'd report the renewed swelling since the pred to the vet and ask for guidance. Maybe there's something other than pred that can be given for the immune problem and will cause less swelling, so it can't hurt to ask.

 

I don't mean to be alarmist at all. But just because swelling is "normal" for this condition doesn't mean that the degree of swelling you're seeing is meaningless and should be dismissed.

Edited July 15, 2010 by greyhead

[djsgreys]

What vet are you seeing? If it is the same vet that we use for our fosters up here, I know lots of times I have to get a little pushy before they will request help on a case or aggressively treat. This was true of Billy when he came up from Guam. Karen, call me if I can help - I'm close and I can get on the vet's case for you.

 

Deb

 

 

[Guest ChasesMum]

hi Deb! calling you... We are seeing Dr. Greenbank (and Dr. Rivas) and ann brought in Dr, Hertling - he is the one that thought of it and has been primarily treating her. He has talked quite a bit with Calgary internal med and with the pathologists. IDEXX pathologists are in on it too, and he has read the info fron NCSU i sent...so i do feel he is educating himself and getting help. maybe being a specialist himself helps??

 

Mary, thx for the reminder to report it anyways. i'd like to not have her on pred but if it helps then fine. if not then lets find something else. aargh!! she was swollen monday before we restarted the pred, its progressed. i am happy that she already had rads done tho, so i am less scared of 'C' that i otherwise would be.

Edited July 15, 2010 by ChasesMum

[djsgreys]

That's good Karen, Dr. G - although she gets a little frustrated with me when I tell her what to do is the best greyhound vet in the city.

 

How is Chase today? IF you need me - 780-942-4163

 

 

[2hounds]

Sending lots of good thoughts for you. My Mia had Erlichea and it turned into immune mediated poly-arthritis. She is still on pred, 3 years later, because when we try to take her off of it, she has an immune response.

 

She had bumps similar to what you mentioned a few months after she finished her doxy and she was still on a high dosage of pred. The vet just reduced her pred dosage and they went away.

[Guest ChasesMum]

Sending lots of good thoughts for you. My Mia had Erlichea and it turned into immune mediated poly-arthritis. She is still on pred, 3 years later, because when we try to take her off of it, she has an immune response.

 

She had bumps similar to what you mentioned a few months after she finished her doxy and she was still on a high dosage of pred. The vet just reduced her pred dosage and they went away.

 

 

oooh! they checked her for that... how far into treatment did she get that lovely complication? can you give more details? did they see changes on xray? did she have swollen legs or joints? what dose of doxy was she on, and what dose of pred was and is she on? did you have any issues with doxy and pred together?

[2hounds]

Yes, her joints swelled up so bad that she couldn't walk. With Mia, the joints swelling up actually happpened as she was being diagnosed with Erlichea, so it was pretty much all at the same time and she stopped eating/drinking right around then so we were also dealing with dehydration.

 

She also had a weird head weaving thing, almost like she was dizzy and she would walk in circles and then fall down. The vet said this was also probably related to the immune response.

 

I don't remember her Doxy dosage, but in the beginning, she was on 40mg of Pred per day and we have now weaned her down to 5mg every other day, we just can't take her completely off of the pred because the head weaving thing comes back and her joints start to swell again.

 

The bumps showed up when she was on pred and Imizol at the same time, the vet reduced the dosage of both medications and the bumps went away. The theory was that the 2 meds in combination were reducing her immune system TOO much so that is why the bumps showed up.

 

The good news is once we got Mia completely stablized, she has been fine for 3 years now. Those first few months were scary, but she is doing great, she is happy, playful, and she eats great.

[Guest ChasesMum]

thank you thank you thank you!

 

That is soooooo Chase! she had a weird neuro thing going on too at the start, right from the start. she would yelp, get up, seem unsettled and unstable and walk around looking for somewhere to be. She would stick her tongue out the front of her mouth and pull it in and click her jaw shut.