Platelets At 50K, No Outward Signs Of Problems

[BauersMom]

We have a happy, bouncy foster dog (newly up from Florida) who went in for his pre-neuter surgery and his platelets were at 52,000. Obviously, they didn't do the neuter.

 

We're already doing the full tick panel and a coagulation test and we're starting him on doxy.

 

Any other thoughts? He is currently showing no signs of illness, no lethargy, no limping, good appetite, etc. but 50K is pretty low.

[Guest Energy11]

Sorry to hear this! Being a Florida dog, I think he should be checked for Babesia. MANY vets don't check for this. Just a thought.

 

Hope everything turns out ok! Good luck and prayers!

[BauersMom]

Yep, we already talked about Babesia, it's on the list to test. Thanks!

[tbhounds]

Was that number obtained from a manual count?? I ask because if there was clumping in the sample it will affect how the machine reads the blood. You might receive a falsely low result with platelet clumping (btw--hounds love to clump).

[Guest ChasesMum]

you are already covering the tbd we are dealing with so hopefully its something easy to deal with!

 

Chase also had very few presenting symptoms other than weird eye pain and dilated pupils (post in H&W called 'lumpy bumpy hound')

 

let me know how he does on Doxy...Chase is having some tummy issues and she is on the conservative dose of 5mg/kg BID.

[Guest ChasesMum]

you are already testing for the ehrlichia that we are dealing with over here.

 

 

Hopefully he deals with the Doxy well, Chase is having some tummy upset and she is being dosed conservatively at 5mg/kg BID

[Burpdog]

I assume you are doing a full panel

 

That is the problem with TBDs. They show nothing then crash. Make sure you are doing the doxy recommended by Dr. Stack: 5mg per # of body weight twice a day. Many vets dose too low.

 

Forgot to ask important stuff: what are his RBC, HCT & WBC

Edited July 12, 2010 by Burpdog

[nettles]

We had a dog come in from Florida a couple of months ago with a count of 10,000. It was done in house and they sent another sample out to a lab which came back within normal range.

 

rich

[BauersMom]

I assume you are doing a full panel

 

That is the problem with TBDs. They show nothing then crash. Make sure you are doing the doxy recommended by Dr. Stack: 5mg per # of body weight twice a day. Many vets dose too low.

 

Forgot to ask important stuff: what are his RBC, HCT & WBC

 

I don't have the other numbers, but the vet said they were within range. This vet sees a very large greyhound practice, so I am ok with him reading the numbers and making the call on grey 'normal' so I just didn't ask.

 

Full tick panel came back negative. Coag was normal to low.

 

We're going to run with the doxy and retest. The platelet count was repeated by the outside lab and confirmed via manual count.

[Burpdog]

Within range does not mean healthy greyhound levels. I've seen greyhound vets think lower levels were ok.

 

Remember, Dr. Stack also says that they can test negative if they are in crisis.

[Batmom]

When did he get in from FL? I wonder sometimes if the long hauls do a number on these guys. In any case, hope he will rebound in a couple weeks.

[greyhead]

Could I just ask, is the term "full tick panel" even meaningful when it consists of, what, four tests, when there are hundreds of TBD's out there?

 

Full disclosure, we're treating Shane with doxy for suspected Erlichiosis. He didn't test positive for the one kind of Erlichia they tested for, but there are two other kinds that we know of, yes? Long story, and I don't mean to hijack. We already treated him with Imizol for Babesia; he improved but didn't resolve. My vet talked to Protatek to ask if it made sense to test for more TBDs; Dr. Holland said yes, "up to a point" -- which was left undefined.

 

Since doxy treats all the TBDs that Imizol doesn't, vet and I decided just to try it. We're getting *lots* more improvement, so we figure he had also had one of the other hundreds of TBDs. Just makes me wonder how we can ever relax with negative results on a "full tick panel". Any comment?

 

Wishing the best to all the TBD hounds and their people!

Mary

 

 

[Batmom]

There aren't hundreds of tick diseases out there. There's a finite number of known variants, and some number of unknown variants. I'm not a fan of titers. I would use one of the newer PCR panels from IDEXX or Antech, or the genus-level (followed by speciation) panel from NCSU. These panels test for pretty much all the known organisms. Unknown organisms ... well, if they're unknown, we don't know they're there; we only have suspicions. If testing for all other reasonable possibilities is negative, treatment with a broad-spectrum antibiotic like doxycycline seems a sensible course.

[greyhead]

Thank you, Batmom. I was quoting what my vet said to me as to "hundreds." Still, she said Dr. Holland told her there are lots of them. I hadn't known about the possibilities of PCR panels. Not sure we could have afforded it anyway.

 

What I was mainly thinking about when I posted was that we call something a full tick panel when it tests for fewer TBDs than you can count on the fingers of one hand. And then we think we can relax, that we have it covered. ("We" meaning people like me.) Kind of like we react to news of a negative fecal. Until we learn better.

 

 

[Batmom]

Well, to some degree tick diseases cross-react, so even a titer test for "four" tick diseases should cover a few more than that, tho still not all the known ones. Some don't cross-react. You can have high titer and no disease, low/negative titer but disease, negative PCR but disease (altho this is fairly unlikely), etc. Big crapshoot. Didn't think to ask, tho, how long ago did he get his imizol shots, and did he get both rounds or just one?

[HopeForHounds]

Jake is on doxycyclin for suspected TBD. The reason I say suspected is that he had negative a PCR for lyme, rocky mountain, ehrlichia and babesia. Since then he has had negative snap tests over the 2 years he was showing odd symptoms.

 

He began had numerous incidents of swollen legs, redness, pain and sometimes fever. The first time, we thought infection so he did a course of clavamox. Then it came back with no fever, odd. The next time it was a different leg and fever. Dr Couto suggested a joint tap, so we waited and when it happened again (different leg) we did the procedure. The lab asked our vet why we had done the tap because the fluid was unremarkable. Yet there he was with a very hot, swollen and painful wrist. He's had numerous blood tests, and they are all completely normal for a greyhound. The incidents came more frequently and in Dec he had two flare ups with the second one involving both back legs. My vet sat on the floor and told me she didn't have a clue. We discussed the possibility that it was TBD and she said even with the neg PCR it could be. She told me she didn't see any value in spending any more money on tests that we could spend that money on treating. We did have a disagreement on the amount of doxy and the length of treatment. We did 300 mg twice a day for a month. He was like a new dog, doing things I hadn't even noticed he wasn't doing. He's 11 and was acting 7.

 

When I was at Sandy Paws, Diane warned me it could come back - and it did. He got over tired then slipped on the stairs. 3 hours later he had 105 temp, red back legs and couldn't walk. I knew! So I worked on getting his fever down and emailed our vet (these things always happen at midnight on a Sunday ) She said unless I couldn't get the temp down or keep him comfortable, he would be fine until she could see him on Monday. Temp was down to 103 by noon Sunday and he was tottering around. By the time she saw him his temp was only slightly elevated and he was walking fine. He did have pitting edema in both hocks. She immediately asked me how much doxy and for how long. Jake is on week 3 of his 8 weeks of treatment and has gone back to being a 7 year old in an 11 year old body.

 

So many of these dogs present TBD in unique ways. Tests either don't make sense, or there is nothing to see. Had I known what I know now, I would have just treated him earlier and aggressively.

 

Praying you get an answer or better yet a treatment that works for him.

[Batmom]

Might be worth reading some on Bartonella, at least in Jake's case.

[greyhead]

Well, to some degree tick diseases cross-react, so even a titer test for "four" tick diseases should cover a few more than that, tho still not all the known ones. Some don't cross-react. You can have high titer and no disease, low/negative titer but disease, negative PCR but disease (altho this is fairly unlikely), etc. Big crapshoot. Didn't think to ask, tho, how long ago did he get his imizol shots, and did he get both rounds or just one?

 

Shane got his imizol in February, both rounds. Here's the thread. Where do I look to learn how to transform this long link into a short thing that says "linky" or some such?!

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/248424-babesia-canis-low-positive/page__p__4405585__fromsearch__1&?do=findComment&comment=4405585

 

He did well enough for a while but then in April developed incontinence and his other symptoms returned (e.g., low stamina). His bloodwork was perfect except for low phosphorus. He has also been losing weight steadily for six months, though he still looks good enough. So two weeks ago I said "enough" & vet put him on 300 mg doxy twice a day. Yesterday we decided to extend the doxy two more weeks because his response to it has been wonderful -- the proverbial "new dog." This is a dog that has been acting lame and old practically since he arrived at age 4, and I finally noticed his symptoms worsened kind of cyclically, and then I finally had enough of his having so much less of a life than he should. Hoping this gives him another chance, at age 7, to do better.

 

Have nothing but sorrow and love for all the undiagnosed TBD dogs of the world, as well as for the owners who try their best to figure out what's wrong. Have nothing but sadness and frustration at the way we tend to misunderstand what tests of all kinds do and don't indicate. Don't know what to do about it except to point out that it happens. It's not that the math is wrong but that the interpretation of the math is imperfect -- and sometimes just wrong. By "math" I mean the statistical and other mathematical underpinnings for medical tests.

[Batmom]

I asked about the timing due to a vestigial memory that Babesia symptoms (such as low RBC) don't always respond lightning-fast to treatment, it can take them a little while -- but IIRC that's weeks, not months! It might be worth reading around on Bartonella in his case, too. I don't really know how common it is; just, my vestigial memory on that one is that one hallmark is the cyclic thing. At this point it seems like we can cross our fingers and hope that the meds knock off, once and for all, whatever peculiar, resistant thing is ailing him!