I Know He Needs Socialization

[Guest HoundyGirl]

I've had Gus a little over two weeks. I was warned that he wasn't safe with small dogs, like Chihuahuas. Well, as we were coming out of the vet's office he bit a cocker spaniel. (I opened the door from the vet's room and boom, Gus found the Cocker who was right outside the door and did his thing.) Fortunately he just got fur and no harm was done, and the owner was very understanding. I've learned my lesson and will keep him muzzled from now on at the vets because I don't have complete control over the situation and a little dog could pop up any where.

 

Well, today we were out walking and he wanted to meet a boxer. So I let him get close and he immediately started nipping at the boxer. I can't tell if it was play on Gus' part or not. He seemed more excited than anything. The boxer certainly didn't think it was play. I pulled him away and no harm was done. But now I'm wondering if I need to muzzle him on walks. I can control whether he has contact with other dogs on leashes, but not if those dogs aren't leashed and there are a few people in my townhouse development that let their little dogs out without leashes. I've changed where I walk the dogs so we have less of a chance of running into these dogs, but it scares me that one could just come up to us and Gus would chomp down.

 

I don't really want to muzzle him on our walks, but if I need to, I will. What do you think?

 

Also, I understand that he needs to be socialized with larger dogs so he gets more familiar with non-greyhounds, but how do I do that without endangering the other dogs? The only thing I can think of is an obedience class where he's muzzled, at least at first, until he gets to know these other dogs. Any other ideas? I think the dog park would be way too much for him right now. I should add that he's fine with my coonhound.

 

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Edited June 14, 2010 by HoundyGirl

[greysmom]

No dog parks for Gus! That many uncontrolled dogs in a hyper-excited situation is an accident waiting to happen.

 

Regarding muzzleing, you will be advised to not muzzle your hound when there is the possibility he could be attacked, for fear he won't be able to defend himself. In those situations *you* need to be your (un-muzzled) dog's protector. Be vigilant about what's going on around you when you walk and either avoid off-leash dogs or put yourself between your dog and the other dog.

 

An obedience class could be useful in your situation. Make sure you research the teacher and that it's only a "positive reinforcement" class. Talk to the trainer and explain what you need so they can help you. You may not get much real training done - he'll be distracted, no doubt - but he will be exposed to other breeds and sizes of dogs. Some trainers offer socialization classes for this purpose, so check around and ask your adoption group if they know of any grey-savvy trainers in your area.

 

If you have friends with other dog breeds enlist their help for some one on one exposure. Long walks with the new dog will help. Make sure you reward him for good behavior - when he's walking nicely, when he ignores the other dog, when he's relaxed and happy in the other dog's presence. You want him to associate the other dog, and being nice with the other dog, with a yummy treat!

[greytpups]

I highly recommend reading "At the Other End of the Leash" and search for some of Giselle's posts on GT regarding "Look at Me" training. My neighbour experienced the same situation and when an off leash dog came running up to her Border Collie, she had enough training from reading the book, to spot a potential dog fight and resolve it before it could escalate.

[Guest bigbrindlebunny]

We had the same problem with Pete, and now he's fine with all kinds, large and small. Zero issues today.

We did have to muzzle him on walks for the first few months (we live in an apartment complex so we have to walk him everywhere), and at obedience class. We told the teacher about our concerns, he evaluated Pete and thought that it was a manageable situation. He wasn't seeing anything from Pete that "he didn't like." He came to that conclusion as Pete was lunging at some dog behind some glass french doors, so God only knows what the professionals see that we don't. But he was right. The breakthrough came during the obedience class, Pete made nice with an English bulldog puppy. That was the beginning of everything turning around. I'm a newbie and pretty clueless, but my guess is that after an hour standing next to all these weird creatures without harm week after week, he figured out it wasn't a dangerous situation for him. Of course he was muzzled for all the sessions, and stressed to the point he was practically in my lap, but eventually he came around.

[Guest SusanP]

I do muzzle my Spinner on walks because, though he has not yet bitten another dog, he goes ballistic when we see any on walks and he will bite *me* and his packmates in a fit of displaced aggression. To me, if your dog has demonstrated that he *will* bite another dog he encounters, unprovoked, there is a greater risk of his hurting another dog than there is that a loose dog will hurt him. I partly feel that people let their dogs run loose at their own risk and that any dog that runs up to mine is asking for it *but* I do not want a dogfight on my hands, and I'm afraid Spinner is capable of starting one.

 

So that's my two cents.

[Guest HoundyGirl]

Thanks for the replies. I'll look into a training class. Unfortunately, in my part of NC there aren't many choices. There's PetSmart and there's an independent that doesn't believe in using treats. I took my coonhound to both and neither were entirely successful. The clickers at PetSmart scared her as did the environment, and the lack of treats at the other made learning very slow. Between these two, which would you pick for Gus? I can look around and see if there are more options, but I didn't find any before.

[Batmom]

I'd keep looking for more options.

 

I'd also mull over to what extent he needs socialization (and perhaps review the laws in your area about those offleash dogs so you know what your liabilities might be). My angel Zema didn't like strange dogs, and she didn't like some nonstrange dogs . That was her personality. She was not a dog who was ever going to be comfortable meeting others face to face, or welcoming an offleash dog running up to her.

[Guest KennelMom]

Was he in a foster home or did he come straight from a kennel? Have you been in contact with the adoption group yet?

 

I would not muzzle on walks. Period. At the vet, fine. I know some vets have cats that wander the place and you can encounter clueless owners in confined spaces. Plus, you've only had him two weeks...that is really such a small amount of time. Give him more time to bond with you and learn his home environment before putting him in a bunch of new (and possibly overwhelming) situations with strange people and dogs.

Edited June 15, 2010 by KennelMom

[Guest bigbrindlebunny]

I would not muzzle on walks. Period. At the vet, fine.

 

KennelMom is right, when you muzzle your dog you put them in a defenseless position. The reason we wound up doing that for the first few months is due to the situation we were in. We live in an apartment, with lots of other pets, and have to walk him 5 times each day along with everyone else. It was impossible to avoid them all, even at odd times. Pete was acting as the aggressor (out of fear) and attacking Pitt Bulls (there are quite a few), German Sheppards, small dogs, large dogs, whatever was out there when they came near. While he wore a muzzle, at least other owners would steer clear of us. Without a muzzle, in those circumstances, it was far more likely that I'd wind up with damage to both my dog, the other, and possibly myself. Muzzling was the lesser of two evils.

 

It's hard to believe all that happened today. Today he's calm to the point of comatose, and meets and greets everyone. He particularly likes small dogs. Go figure.

 

 

Edited cuz I can't spell

Edited June 15, 2010 by bigbrindlebunny

[fsugrad]

I'd keep looking for more options.

 

I'd also mull over to what extent he needs socialization (and perhaps review the laws in your area about those offleash dogs so you know what your liabilities might be). My angel Zema didn't like strange dogs, and she didn't like some nonstrange dogs . That was her personality. She was not a dog who was ever going to be comfortable meeting others face to face, or welcoming an offleash dog running up to her.

This is what I was wondering. Does he need socialization? Our Robin LOVES people and is super-affectionate to them, but he dislikes all dogs except for greyhounds and whippets...he can tell the difference between whippets and iggies, and he hates iggies too! But there is no need for him to be socialized to other dogs, per se. When we go on walks we are usually in our neighborhood or on trails. He is a perfect gentleman/super loving to any humans who stop to admire him on our walks. If someone with a little yappy dog wants to come pet Robin, we shorten the leash, back up a bit and explain that Robin is not a fan of other breeds of dogs. People don't get offended if we say this.

I would never in a million years take Robin to a dog park. I don't know why some people think they have to do this. There are lots of fun trail walks, hikes, beach walks, etc that you can do with your dog that are much more fun and much less dangerous than letting them loose in a dog park. Don't do it!

[Guest krystolla]

Where in NC are you? My mother does positive reinforcement training in Apex, but doesn't travel far.

 

I would add that socialization doesn't have to be up-close-and-personal. Being across the street from another dog and acting calmly is a good first step. Especially for a guy that's had nipping issues, I'd work on training him to just pass or approach other dogs calmly. Don't worry about the one-on-one sniffing for a long time.

 

I'm doing long-distance socialization with my grey now, he's afraid of children. Not aggressive, thankfully, just scared. We're starting with walking on the far side of the fence near a playground so he can hear the kids but can't see them. He's adapting remarkably quickly, it's only been a few months and he'll walk along the fence without freezing or jumping in front of me and stopping.

 

The idea is to do the smallest baby steps possible.

[Guest KennelMom]

I would not muzzle on walks. Period. At the vet, fine.

 

KennelMom is right, when you muzzle your dog you put them in a defenseless position. The reason we wound up doing that for the first few months is due to the situation we were in. We live in an apartment, with lots of other pets, and have to walk him 5 times each day along with everyone else. It was impossible to avoid them all, even at odd times. Pete was acting as the aggressor (out of fear) and attacking Pitt Bulls (there are quite a few), German Sheppards, small dogs, large dogs, whatever was out there when they came near. While he wore a muzzle, at least other owners would steer clear of us. Without a muzzle, in those circumstances, it was far more likely that I'd wind up with damage to both my dog, the other, and possibly myself. Muzzling was the lesser of two evils.

 

It's hard to believe all that happened today. Today he's calm to the point of comatose, and meets and greets everyone. He particularly likes small dogs. Go figure.

 

 

Edited cuz I can't spell

 

 

I should clarify my post as well...I should have said: As a general rule, I wouldn't muzzle on walks. I don't like absolutes and my statement was pretty much absolute, wasn't it There are times when I would muzzle outside as well...I can imagine specific scenarios such as the one above, but as a general rule on walks if the dog isn't under your control, it's not ready to be out in public yet.

[TheFullHouse]

Did he come from a foster home or straight from a track? Two weeks is such a short time, especially for a hound straight off a track. I'd limit subjecting him to new experiences until he's had a chance to settle in at home and form a bond with you. He has to bond with you to know that you'll protect him and he won't have to protect himself when coming upon a situation he's not encountered before. Once the bond is formed, then I'd look a training classes and such.

[Guest HoundyGirl]

I got him from an adoption group. He was in a kennel for a few months and then he was fostered by a woman who had a tiny Chihuahua. She said he doesn't get along with small dogs and she meant her Chihuahua.

 

I was thinking an obedience class in a few months, like in the fall, might be good. I wouldn't do it now since he's so new. He's not even adjusted to my laminate flooring yet! (Can't blame him, it seems particularly difficult for him.) I just assumed he needs socialization because of his reaction to the boxer, but those of you who are saying maybe he doesn't and he just doesn't like other dogs (besides my coonhound) have a point.

 

Oh, Apex is over an hour and a half away.

[Guest lasharp1209]

I let him get close and he immediately started nipping at the boxer... I can control whether he has contact with other dogs on leashes, but not if those dogs aren't leashed and there are a few people in my townhouse development that let their little dogs out without leashes. I've changed where I walk the dogs so we have less of a chance of running into these dogs, but it scares me that one could just come up to us and Gus would chomp down.

 

If you can control him getting close to other leashed dogs, then there is no need to muzzle. Until you have a chance to work on positive association with other dogs, then just don't let him approach them and get into that kind of situation where he might have a negative experience.

 

In the case of dogs running loose, first of all it is the owner's responsibility to keep their dog leashed and confined. Second, I would suggest carrying a stick or spray that you can keep the dogs away from you in a way that does not put your dog at risk, and does not result in a bite to the other dog if possible. If I have to choose between my dog being antagonized/potentially biting/being bit, and your dog being hit with a stick, I sure as heck will hit your dog with a stick.

 

I would reiterate that you've only had him 2 weeks. Give him some time to adjust and get used to you, the house, the routine, the neighborhood. One of the worst things in my opinion for a new dog is to be overstimulated, and that includes by other dogs. Personally I wouldn't even work on socialization yet, for another few months. He needs to get to the point where he trusts you. Just take it slow and easy, and see how things go. Good luck!

Edited June 15, 2010 by lasharp1209

[Guest jupiterooos]

I do muzzle my Spinner on walks because, though he has not yet bitten another dog, he goes ballistic when we see any on walks and he will bite *me* and his packmates in a fit of displaced aggression. To me, if your dog has demonstrated that he *will* bite another dog he encounters, unprovoked, there is a greater risk of his hurting another dog than there is that a loose dog will hurt him. I partly feel that people let their dogs run loose at their own risk and that any dog that runs up to mine is asking for it *but* I do not want a dogfight on my hands, and I'm afraid Spinner is capable of starting one.

 

So that's my two cents.

 

I have a similar problem, and am considering muzzling, mainly because other dog owners will give a wide berth to a muzzled dog. At the moment I have to yell at a distance to get their &%^! dog because mine isn't friendly - the muzzle would say that without words.

[Guest SusanP]

Another consideration: Our local dog trainer would not let Spinner into an obedience class after she found out he'd bitten me (abraded the skin) during a fit of leash aggression while we were out walking. You may have trouble finding a trainer who is willing to take a chance with other people and their dogs. And I can see why.

[Guest Jubilee251]

It might just be that he is new and stressed out. In the first few weeks we got her, Molly would growl and snap at almost any dog that came up to her, especially rambunctious smaller dogs. She has been with us for 6 months and now she is perfectly friendly, and wants to meet everyone and everydog. I chalk it up to just the stress.