Separation Anxiety Big Problem

[Guest NJgrey]

Well we left Swarley alone again for small increments today and he seemed to do ok. One time we actually set up the video camera on the computer to record for the 10 min we were gone. He was lying on his bed when we left and then immediately got up and went to the door. He did some whimpering and crying but nothing too loud or constant. Then he paced around the apartment for a few minutes before lying down in front of the door, where he stayed until we came back.

 

The reason we are concerned about not trusting him for longer periods is just because we've seen what he did to his crate pad (shredded it completely!) when he was anxious about being left one evening. I'm worried that he could get something that might hurt him. But putting the muzzle on is a great suggestion. And of course we dog-proof as much as possible.

 

 

If that's what he does for the first 10 mins then it seems unlikely to me that it would escalate much from there. Just continue to keep everything low key when you come and go. It's no big deal, and don't pay any attention until he settles. A lot of people have dogs with real, clinical separation anxiety and for those dogs none of this stuff will work. It seems to me, however, that for most dogs exhibiting anxiety, with time, just establishing a routine makes things better.

 

As far as leaving him out for longer periods, dog proof as much as possible and just go for it. If you work during the day then he's going to have to be alone outside the crate for several hrs sooner than later. That's the only way you'll know. Hide anything irreplaceable even if he hasn't shown any desire to chew it in the past, make sure he doesn't have access to any people food or pills, and expect the worst when you come home. You may find yourself pleasantly surprised at how good he's been. Maybe he just wants to show you that he can do it!

[Walliered]

When I put the muzzle on Da Vid he rubs it very hard on the door facing. He did not do this when I first brought him home, but does it now.

[Guest Drumhellergrey]

Well we left Swarley alone again for small increments today and he seemed to do ok. One time we actually set up the video camera on the computer to record for the 10 min we were gone. He was lying on his bed when we left and then immediately got up and went to the door. He did some whimpering and crying but nothing too loud or constant. Then he paced around the apartment for a few minutes before lying down in front of the door, where he stayed until we came back.

 

The reason we are concerned about not trusting him for longer periods is just because we've seen what he did to his crate pad (shredded it completely!) when he was anxious about being left one evening. I'm worried that he could get something that might hurt him. But putting the muzzle on is a great suggestion. And of course we dog-proof as much as possible.

 

Looks like the next step will be to take the plunge and leave him out for longer periods.

 

Also, if you've got the means, I highly recommend spying on your dog while you're not home once. When we watched the video afterward we were both doubled over in laughter! Adorable.

 

Sounds like you may be seeing a bit of progress. I'm also going to echo what others are saying, and you seem to be trying, is leaving him out of the crate. Mine wouldn't go anywhere near the crate in the short time we tried it. It just terrified him that he would be cooped up in such a tiny space, all alone.

 

Trust is a big thing, I know, but if he seems to be better outside, a bit of trust might be what is needed. That and over time , him seeing you go and return, he will learn that there is less need to panic. The web cam is a great idea, by the way.

 

 

Keep us updated.

[Guest TBSFlame]

I know someone that was dealing with terrible SA in an appartment when they moved to a house it went away. This dog did not like the noise that comes with appartment living and would get him upset.

[Guest Harry702]

I know someone that was dealing with terrible SA in an appartment when they moved to a house it went away. This dog did not like the noise that comes with appartment living and would get him upset.

 

Though I know very little about details, I do know that this has happened to some of the fosters we've had in our group. Some dogs are nervous about unexpected noises and the sounds of unseen "life" all around them can be overstimulating and scary. From what I understand, in some cases, moving the dog to a calmer environment was all that was necessary to help reduce the anxiety. This is small comfort to the OP, I'm sure. Finding a rental that allows large dogs isn't a picnic, and changing your living situation so drastically for the sole "potential" benefit of the dog seems a little unreasonable.

 

Sounds like the pup is making some positive progress without the crate, though, so that kind of option may not even be necessary. I agree with the muzzling... when we leave Harry out of the crate alone for periods longer than 30 minutes or so, he always gets muzzled. He's shown a tendency to get bored (and possibly anxious), and will chew on things he shouldn't if left to his own devices (and we have two cats... he's awesome with them, but we're not going to take any chances... ever). Some dogs may turn into drama queens at first, but trust me... they're fine... they're completely used to it, and they'll settle down in a few minutes.

 

Good luck!

[Guest Drumhellergrey]

I also found this great article Separation Anxiety

[SPDoggie]

Our Kingsley destroyed anything left in the crate with him but never destroyed anything once he was allowed free-reign of the house... so hopefully your boy will be the same.... sounds like you are already making good strides.

[Maddiesmom]

Having A SA dog myself, I know first hand what you are going through. Maddie ate her way out of 3 crates (plastic and wire) I was a first time greyhound owner and was following the advice of more knowledgeable people who stated to crate. If I knew then what I know now, I would have taken her out of crate the first week instead of 2 1/2 months after I got her. I used the kong, the radio, the TV, the DAP diffuser, even medication (We used Clomicalm- i think that's what it is called) from the vet as a last resort and then I took a big leap of faith and left her out of the crate all day while I was at work, closed all doors to rooms I did not want her going into (including the bathrooms) baby gated other areas- went to work, drove home and checked on her around 1pm and she was fine! (She was on the medication as well though) (this was 5 1/2 hours after I had left in the morning) and came home at 430pm to a happy to see me dog waiting at the door for me. I did muzzle her for a while (I don't anymore as all she does is sleep now) - took the crate down that night and have not crated since. I only crate if I have a foster, Maddie pokes herself into the crate to investigate for food but that is it.

 

 

Also a tired dog is a good dog, when I go on trips with Maddie and have to stay in a hotel (she did chew on a hotel door from her SA- my mistake not hers - now she is muzzle when I leave her in the hotel room- I wear her out. Long walks-she is so tired she can barely keep her eyes open. Try taking the dog out for long walks before you leave in am if possible.

 

I vote for the not crating as well, Kennel dogs are used to having a radio on as well. - be patient as it will change I promise,

I put myself in her position, having her life changed being in a kennel with all her buddies to going to another kennel to being the only dog, that can be scary,, but day by day it lessens and your dogs true personality comes out and it is all worth it.

 

 

Amy and Maddie

Edited April 13, 2010 by Maddiesmom

[Guest gecko_foot]

Yeah we've tried leaving him outside of the crate for short periods so far. Just a few minutes when going down to get laundry or zipping out to the drugstore for 15 or 20 minutes and he's behaved well so far. We'd like to be able to leave him out in the apartment for longer periods which is something we're gradually trying to work up to.

 

But we certainly will continue with the short-term leaving. It just breaks my heart that he gets so worked up when left alone. Has anyone ever tried some sort of sedative that would at least allow him to calm down when he's by himself or anything like that? I've also heard of using valerian root for both human and animal anxiety but have never tried it myself.

 

Thanks for the suggestions so far, guys. All is appreciated.

 

I'm sure I'll get some flak for this, and I don't know if it will be an option for you, but...

 

Do you have a friend who has a chain link dog pen in a rural area? Tumnus' problem wasn't as severe as your dog's, but he would whine, etc. while in his crate. If I left him out, he would bark and howl until sunset - not to mention shred my pillows. My relatives have a dog lot - 6 ft chain link fence surrounding an 8'x 8' area (no hazards) - and they live in a very rural area. Everyone's dog barks there, so Tumnus was able to yowl all he wanted, and he quickly found out that making all of that racket didn't get him out of there any quicker. In fact, the more noise he made, the longer he had to stay confined. I waited until he quieted down, and then I approached to dog lot and waited for Tumnus to lay down. He was never allowed out until he (1) lay down and (2) was quiet (while laying down) for at least 2 minutes. This worked wonders with him when I came back to my apartment. Again - let me say that Tumnus wasn't a severe SA case. He wears his basket muzzle while in his crate because he will gnaw on the bars and any nearby items (pillows, etc.). I never thought it would be possible for him to go into his crate without being pushed, but today I only had to lead him to the crate to get him to go in. Many times he will remain laying down until he knows I'm going to let him out, but I use the same methods I did with the dog lot - he has to be quiet and calm (laying down) for at least 2 minutes before he gets to come out.

 

I'm sorry for such a long-winded answer, but I hope this helps you. Good luck!

Edited April 13, 2010 by gecko_foot

[jenn8]

Why did I have to read that?

 

Jenn

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

Oy.

[kamsmom]

Yeah we've tried leaving him outside of the crate for short periods so far. Just a few minutes when going down to get laundry or zipping out to the drugstore for 15 or 20 minutes and he's behaved well so far. We'd like to be able to leave him out in the apartment for longer periods which is something we're gradually trying to work up to.

 

But we certainly will continue with the short-term leaving. It just breaks my heart that he gets so worked up when left alone. Has anyone ever tried some sort of sedative that would at least allow him to calm down when he's by himself or anything like that? I've also heard of using valerian root for both human and animal anxiety but have never tried it myself.

 

Thanks for the suggestions so far, guys. All is appreciated.

 

I'm sure I'll get some flak for this, and I don't know if it will be an option for you, but...

 

Do you have a friend who has a chain link dog pen in a rural area? Tumnus' problem wasn't as severe as your dog's, but he would whine, etc. while in his crate. If I left him out, he would bark and howl until sunset - not to mention shred my pillows. My relatives have a dog lot - 6 ft chain link fence surrounding an 8'x 8' area (no hazards) - and they live in a very rural area. Everyone's dog barks there, so Tumnus was able to yowl all he wanted, and he quickly found out that making all of that racket didn't get him out of there any quicker. In fact, the more noise he made, the longer he had to stay confined. I waited until he quieted down, and then I approached to dog lot and waited for Tumnus to lay down. He was never allowed out until he (1) lay down and (2) was quiet (while laying down) for at least 2 minutes. This worked wonders with him when I came back to my apartment. Again - let me say that Tumnus wasn't a severe SA case. He wears his basket muzzle while in his crate because he will gnaw on the bars and any nearby items (pillows, etc.). I never thought it would be possible for him to go into his crate without being pushed, but today I only had to lead him to the crate to get him to go in. Many times he will remain laying down until he knows I'm going to let him out, but I use the same methods I did with the dog lot - he has to be quiet and calm (laying down) for at least 2 minutes before he gets to come out.

 

I'm sorry for such a long-winded answer, but I hope this helps you. Good luck!

 

 

 

Totally old school thinking and very, very inappropriate.

[Guest lisa_grublesky]

Thank you for posting this. We have similar issues with our Sundae, and I plan to start to train her to NOT be in her crate this summer. She usually likes to "hide" up in our bedroom, and not come down (which then forces us to have to manually get her up). Sometimes, she will go outside before we go and not come in. I think that once she is allowed to have "her area" and not a crate, this may subside.

 

Thank you everyone for your suggestions!

[Guest widowcali]

Hi, Congrats on your baby. I second what everyone else is saying. Cali and Widow hated being crated, or closed off. If I let them roam free, they were fine. I also left a bunch of their stuffies all over the place, the TV on, and put in a DAP diffuser for a few weeks. I had the TV on Food Network, which seemed to quiet them more. It wasn't on loud, but it was on loud enough to drown out any noise coming from outside (like landscapers, noisy kids, etc). I didn't leave a whole lot of treats out for them. I made sure that I put up the trash and cleared the counters of any food. After a few days, people actually forgot I had dogs.

[Guest gecko_foot]

Why did I have to read that?

 

Jenn

 

Honestly, you can disagree with me without being rude. I know that a lot of people may not like this method, but it is essentially the same as leaving the dog in a crate - the only difference being that he has more room. Not all of us are so fortunate as to have access to a large yard, and many pet-friendly apartment complexes have a size limit. The OP stated that he/she was at risk for being evicted, and that was the reason I suggested this method. Do I think it is the best? Not at all. I would gladly leave my dog free in my apartment if I could. The simple fact of the matter is that he makes a bigger fuss when left out and is destructive, and I can deal with minor problems, but multiple evictions because of my dog is not one of them.

 

Please take the time to read what I am saying and reply nicely. We are all adults here.

[Guest mountain4greys]

My first grey barked and carried on terribly when we crated her to leave. She would poop in her crate, and tear up the bed.

 

We let her out and left for a little bit while DW secretly watched through the windows. She was fine. She's never been back in the crate again, and has never, ever, destroyed anything. She just wanted out of the crate.

[Sighthounds4me]

Regarding drugs: I remember when Naples had what seemed like SA (To this day, I don't truly believe that's what it was). She had trouble not long after adoption, but the addition of another Greyhound really helped her. Then it came back after we moved, when we had two other dogs, so adding another would not have helped!

 

I was so against using drugs to calm her. But the wonderful folks on GT suggested that it's not the end of the world, and it's not going to make her feel all strung out. If it helps her "get over the hump," that's what she needs.

 

So, we started her on amitriptyline (brand name Elavil). Within a couple days, we no longer had the messing in the crate, or saw anxiety in her. I think she was on it for a month or two, and after that, was fine.

 

We then had a Borzoi foster. Ours was his fifth home, before he was two years old! His was a moderate, not severe case of SA, but it was tough. He destroyed the crate pan, and drooled a lake the first day we went to work after he came to us, and DH had come home at noon! Poor guy!

 

So, at the advice of the rescue's director, we started him on melatonin (a natural sleep supplement) and amitriptyline. The difference was almost immediate. I became unemployed not long after that, so I was able to put him and Cooper outside to play all day. The exercise and meds REALLY helped him! He has been drug-free in his adoptive home for a few years now!

[Guest twhitehouse]

Well we left Swarley alone again for small increments today and he seemed to do ok. One time we actually set up the video camera on the computer to record for the 10 min we were gone. He was lying on his bed when we left and then immediately got up and went to the door. He did some whimpering and crying but nothing too loud or constant. Then he paced around the apartment for a few minutes before lying down in front of the door, where he stayed until we came back.

 

The reason we are concerned about not trusting him for longer periods is just because we've seen what he did to his crate pad (shredded it completely!) when he was anxious about being left one evening. I'm worried that he could get something that might hurt him. But putting the muzzle on is a great suggestion. And of course we dog-proof as much as possible.

 

Looks like the next step will be to take the plunge and leave him out for longer periods.

 

Also, if you've got the means, I highly recommend spying on your dog while you're not home once. When we watched the video afterward we were both doubled over in laughter! Adorable.

 

 

Sorry if this has been mentioned previously, I didn't read all the posts. It does seem as if the crate makes his anxiety worse. Lexi, our SA dog, was like this as well. We had to stop crating because she was injuring herself while in it. Granted, leaving her out of the crate didn't help either...but that's another story.

 

Bottom line is, the crate can sometimes heighten their anxiety. If he seems to do better or okay out of the crate, stick with that! If you are concerned about destruction...muzzle him. The muzzle won't hurt him...he can still bark, pant, and drink all he wants. It's just a tool used to protect your house, protect him and most of all just gives you peace of mind. Keep up the video taping...we found that to be extremely helpful when Lexi's SA was at its worst. It will allow you to track your progress and come up with new ways to help him should you see that what you're doing isn't working.

 

Keep us updated.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

Well we left Swarley alone again for small increments today and he seemed to do ok. One time we actually set up the video camera on the computer to record for the 10 min we were gone. He was lying on his bed when we left and then immediately got up and went to the door. He did some whimpering and crying but nothing too loud or constant. Then he paced around the apartment for a few minutes before lying down in front of the door, where he stayed until we came back.

 

The reason we are concerned about not trusting him for longer periods is just because we've seen what he did to his crate pad (shredded it completely!) when he was anxious about being left one evening. I'm worried that he could get something that might hurt him. But putting the muzzle on is a great suggestion. And of course we dog-proof as much as possible.

 

Looks like the next step will be to take the plunge and leave him out for longer periods.

 

Also, if you've got the means, I highly recommend spying on your dog while you're not home once. When we watched the video afterward we were both doubled over in laughter! Adorable.

 

This is good news, really good news! My SA dog flips if I walk out to the garage for a few mminutes. Most people will tell you the first 30 minutes after you leave is when the damage is done, and the panic is at it's worst. I definately think you have a workable situation here. Put his muzzle on him and leave him out of the crate. If he does not soil the house anywhere, there is no need for baby gates either. mine does that

 

Some dogs just decide once they get home, that they do not want to be in the crate anymore thank-you-very-much. I've heard this a lot on the board. Is there a window he can see out of? This helps my Tempe a lot, and often when I leave she is peeking out the window, watching me drive away. I would also leave the tv or radio on to help drown out the apartment weird noises. A fan might work in the summer too. You are still in the adjustment phase and he's decided he loves you and doesn't understand why you have to leave Keep up the alone training and good luck! Please keep us posted.

[jenn8]

Why did I have to read that?

 

Jenn

 

Honestly, you can disagree with me without being rude. I know that a lot of people may not like this method, but it is essentially the same as leaving the dog in a crate - the only difference being that he has more room. Not all of us are so fortunate as to have access to a large yard, and many pet-friendly apartment complexes have a size limit. The OP stated that he/she was at risk for being evicted, and that was the reason I suggested this method. Do I think it is the best? Not at all. I would gladly leave my dog free in my apartment if I could. The simple fact of the matter is that he makes a bigger fuss when left out and is destructive, and I can deal with minor problems, but multiple evictions because of my dog is not one of them.

 

Please take the time to read what I am saying and reply nicely. We are all adults here.

 

I did not mean to offend you. You said you knew that you would get some flak and I don’t think I even gave you that. My comment was more of a general grunt but not about the 8 foot pen. It bothered me to read about your attitude towards your dog for being excited when you get home. He spends all day long, obviously not real happy in his crate or pen. He is muzzled, isolated, alone and he gets no attention. Okay, fine. But when that day is finally over, he needs to blow off steam. Seeing you is going to trigger that reaction. He has been waiting for you all day. He’s excited and happy. Dogs make noise when that happens. Just let him out. He loves you and wants to show it. Don’t punish him. You are missing out on the best part of owning a dog. Have some fun with him.

 

Jenn

[Guest gecko_foot]

 

I did not mean to offend you. You said you knew that you would get some flak and I don’t think I even gave you that. My comment was more of a general grunt but not about the 8 foot pen. It bothered me to read about your attitude towards your dog for being excited when you get home. He spends all day long, obviously not real happy in his crate or pen. He is muzzled, isolated, alone and he gets no attention. Okay, fine. But when that day is finally over, he needs to blow off steam. Seeing you is going to trigger that reaction. He has been waiting for you all day. He’s excited and happy. Dogs make noise when that happens. Just let him out. He loves you and wants to show it. Don’t punish him. You are missing out on the best part of owning a dog. Have some fun with him.

 

Jenn

 

Apparently we're not on the same wavelength. I wasn't talking about using the dog pen/crate as punishment for my return. I want Tumnus to be happy when I come back and I encourage it, but I don't allow jumping or bad manners - he has to greet me calmly. He's just too big for that, and I am small...No, what I was referring to was the SA when he was left in the crate not the excitement when I came back. The OP mentioned the dog had anxiety issues when they left, and that's what I was referring to. If the OP had relatives in a rural area, they could use a dog pen for alone training so that the whining, barking, etc. wouldn't bother his/her neighbors and the dog could become accustomed to being alone. I did this exact thing with Tumnus: when I was home, he was allowed free range in the house, but when I left, he was placed in the dog pen with another dog for company. Both dogs had spent several days interacting on previous visits and were friendly and familiar with each other. He spent 4-5 hrs at most in the dog pen. Though it was only for a few days, I could immediately see the difference this training had made. He was less anxious while in the crate and was more willing to enter when asked. Prior to this, he would just stand in the crate panting and whining before laying down. I hope this clears things up for you. Sorry about the confusion.

Edited April 15, 2010 by gecko_foot

[Guest Swarley]

UPDATE:

 

Well, it doesn't seem to be going well at all. We've been doing "alone" training with Swarley out of his crate and I thought it was going great at first. I would leave him for periods of 10 and 15 minutes and he'd whimper and pace but then seemed to settle down until I came back. When I decided to trust him a bit more and leave him for 30 minutes, he didn't do well at all. The "spy video" revealed that he had been barking, howling, and crying for 5 minute intervals ever since I left. Luckily, the super-complainy neighbour was not home while this was taking place.

 

So, I feel like we're back at square one. I really thought that leaving him out of the crate was going to be the answer. We'll continue to do the alone training but we need to figure out something else as well. Appointment with the vet this afternoon to see what she can recommend. We've also contacted some trainers to see about specialized training for this. Hopefully a solution will come about and fast!!

 

Also, unrelated but I've noticed a lot of posters use DH/DW in what seems to be reference to what I'm thinking is husbands and wives? What does this stand for? Sorry, still new! don't know everything yet!!

[Guest Jubilee251]

You mentioned leaving him with a Kong in the crate...did you leave him with a Kong when you left him out this time? I freeze mine, so it lasts longer and is harder to get at. I also leave her with a treat-dispensing toy nearby (filled with a few small pieces of cheese) and a small bully stick as well - that way, Molly can go from the Kong, to working on getting cheese out of the toy, and then gnawing on the stick. By the time she's done with all that, quite a bit of time has passed and she's tired herself out.

[Guest Drumhellergrey]

UPDATE:

 

Well, it doesn't seem to be going well at all. We've been doing "alone" training with Swarley out of his crate and I thought it was going great at first. I would leave him for periods of 10 and 15 minutes and he'd whimper and pace but then seemed to settle down until I came back. When I decided to trust him a bit more and leave him for 30 minutes, he didn't do well at all. The "spy video" revealed that he had been barking, howling, and crying for 5 minute intervals ever since I left. Luckily, the super-complainy neighbour was not home while this was taking place.

 

So, I feel like we're back at square one. I really thought that leaving him out of the crate was going to be the answer. We'll continue to do the alone training but we need to figure out something else as well. Appointment with the vet this afternoon to see what she can recommend. We've also contacted some trainers to see about specialized training for this. Hopefully a solution will come about and fast!!

 

Also, unrelated but I've noticed a lot of posters use DH/DW in what seems to be reference to what I'm thinking is husbands and wives? What does this stand for? Sorry, still new! don't know everything yet!!

You are correct, the abbreviations mean Darling Husband Darling Wife. There is a full list of abbreviations in the Technical thread

 

Now back to your problem. Decrease the time left alone, then gradually increase it again.

 

I'm glad to hear the patience you are having with this, and keep at it. It takes time. Each time you leave, when you try again, don't go past the threshold and allow the dog to get anxious. If he does get anxious, shorten the times away, until he shows signs of being calm while you are gone, then start to increase the time away.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

You mentioned leaving him with a Kong in the crate...did you leave him with a Kong when you left him out this time? I freeze mine, so it lasts longer and is harder to get at. I also leave her with a treat-dispensing toy nearby (filled with a few small pieces of cheese) and a small bully stick as well - that way, Molly can go from the Kong, to working on getting cheese out of the toy, and then gnawing on the stick. By the time she's done with all that, quite a bit of time has passed and she's tired herself out.

muzzled