Mental Or Physical Issue?

[Guest SusanP]

Our Zippy is almost 12, and this winter, she has begun having a lot of accidents indoors. When it first began, it was pee, and I had her checked twice for UTI's--she didn't have one. The weather was very cold, and we figured it had more to do with not staying out long enough or being unwilling to go out. At least one other dog had a few accidents during that time as well. Zippy has never been one to ask to go out, but she gives no warning now at all. She'll trot down the stairs to the back door, and before I can get there, she's peed.

 

And it isn't just pee anymore. Now and then it's poop, too. And it isn't that cold out anymore. I'm using gallons of enzyme cleaner, after sucking as much pee out of the carpet as I can with a carpet shampoo machine.

 

And then there is the added problem that I can't always be 100% sure it was her (we have 4 hounds), though I think it is. Sometimes I go downstairs with the other dogs at 6 a.m. to go out and find a pile and/or a puddle already waiting by the back door.

 

I'm trying to figure out what I should have checked out to rule out health problems, but I'm also wondering if she's getting a little senile?

 

What steps should I take here in what order?

Edited March 3, 2010 by SusanP

[Guest Swifthounds]

When was the last time you had blood work and a UA?

[Guest SusanP]

Last urinanalysis was probably in Dec. Not postitive about bloodwork, but I'm thinking it may have been close to a year.

[Guest Maddison]

I don't know either way but, I can make a couple of suggestions that may help with the cleanup. Maddie pees in the house when we leave even if she just went out and she loves to get the one room of carpet. She likes to pee on carpet, never on tile or hardwood. We have a throw rug that we can toss in the washing machine down over the carpet on the area she tends to hit. That way we can toss it right in the washer and most times it won't make it through all the way to the underneath carpet. Also, look into those doggie underwear. That way you can see for sure if it's her and not another one of the dogs. We usually block off the one room of carpet but sometimes we forget or just run out thinking she won't do it but she does. She doesn't have any medical issues, she's just old (11 1/2) and shows us she's angry by peeing.

 

ETA sometimes a UTI doesn't show up right away, I would test her again. Maddie had one ages ago that took a long time to show up.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Maddison

[NevadasMom]

My Nevada lived to be 15.5 years old. The last year of her life she had to start using a pee pad during the day because she could not hold it any more. I used the washable ones & just got into the habit of doing laundry daily. The pads worked VERY well. She rarely missed the pad and I feel like it gave her some dignity rather than having accidents.

[DaisyDoodle]

Does she seem to have any general weakness in her hind end? It could be that the nerves/muscles aren't working quite right.

 

Another possibility--at least w the peeing--is her water consumption the same, or has it increased?

 

Any changes in recent months? New food, treats, supplements?

 

I solved (mostly) the 'down by the door' nighttime accident problem by keeping the dogs closed in my room overnight. If they have to go out, they come to the side of the bed and whine. If they run to the door and whine, I can't hear them.

[Guest aaspenwall]

Ask your vet if it might be Canine Cognitive Dysfunction. My 10-year-old boy was diagnosed with this in late December and after a couple of months on Anipryl and Cholodin he seems more like himself again. Indoor accidents is one of the primary signs of this condition, which affects older dogs, but some as young as 7 or 8 according to what I've read. Be prepared for the expense ... the Anipryl is $96 a month, so with that and the other two meds he's on (the Cholodin to work with the Anipryl and Tramadol for pain), I'm spending about $120 a month on meds, but they've made a remarkable difference in my sweet old boy who'd seemed so distant and in pain.

[Guest aaspenwall]

I meant to explain the "in pain" part, but couldn't figure out how to scroll down through my post ... the editor only lets me see about 5 lines. Anyway, 7 months ago, by aging boy's muscles started wasting away and all the vet could figure out was it was some neurological problem. After spending all summer and fall walking as much as possible to keep his muscles active, he seemed miserable by late December and was snapping at me and my other Grey. My vet and I decided it was time to euthanize because he seemed to be in so much pain, but when he came to the house to do it, he saw my boy having a rare moment of play and realized he'd missed the diagnosis of cognitive dysfunction. Treatment has made a world of difference; he's still an old dog and still has the muscle weakness, but he seems happy and alert and I'm so happy to have gotten all this extra time with him when I thought I was about to lose him. BTW, I didn't see a lot of the "classic" symptoms of cognitive dysfunction. Looking back, I suspect he'd peed in the house a couple of times last summer, but I wasn't positive it was him since I'd just adopted a young dog, just retired due to injury and brand new to living in a house. But he doesn't seem lost in the house or some of the other symptoms usually mentioned. But he did have a faraway, disconnected look about him and was having inexplicable barking fits, both of which have gone away with treatment.

[Guest SusanP]

Zippy still seems mentally with-it to me, and she is actually more active than two of the younger dogs. She loves racing with our almost-6-yr-old, and she learned to jump up on the bed, a new trick for her, within the last year or so, so she is spry and alert, but this gives me something to think about.

 

What is a washable pee pad? I have a rubber backed, quilted bed pad that might work, *IF* she hits it when she has her accidents. She pees enough to go right through even heavy carpets--even a rubber backed one I had down there. All of the dogs have been getting more soaked kibble this winter because one of them (not Zippy) was having dental problems, so there has been a lot more night waking and such. If one gets soaked kibble, they all want it... But that doesn't account for the poo accidents...

[ivon]

What Nevadasmom said, can can buy the washable pee pads here: EZwhelp.com, I recommend getting the new rather than the used and recycled ones, the new will not leak through, and are guaranteed to stay that way for 30 washes. I am quite certain I have put them through more washes than that, and with any luck your hound is as good as mine was about using them.

[NevadasMom]

I bought mine at WalMart in the bedding section. They went thru hundreds of washings & held up well. I also would put old towels on top of the pads to absorb the pee. Nevada was a Cushings dog, so there was LOTS of pee.

[Guest SusanP]

Thanks for the ideas, everyone!

[Guest sheila]

could it be a bit of age related incontinence that meds such as PPE or DES could help with. Something to help tighten up the muscles. If most of the messes are near or on the way to the door it doesn't sound like a behavioral issue.

[seeh2o]

I recall being dubbed the bedpad queen <sigh> when my then 13 (now 14) year old Chow mix had a raging UTI. As such, Jrs Medical Supplies has great washable bedpads 32" x 52" for $8.20. They are new, huge, really great quality and they overnight them without even asking how soon you want them. The thought of buying used ones (no matter how well they cleaned them) really gave me the heebee-jeebees.

Edited March 3, 2010 by ckruzan

[Batmom]

You might try for awhile taking her out on a (fairly short) schedule and making sure she pees, and seeing how she does.

 

If her bloodwork is good, before giving any other meds, I'd put her on a course of antibiotics -- pretend she has a UTI even though she doesn't test as having one. Has worked for more than one dog on this board.