Penny Losing Eyesight, I Think

[Guest Tuxsmom]

Batmom had asked if I thought Penny might be having vision problems. I had not really noticed anything, but now that I am paying attention, here is what I'm observing that has changed in past 2 or 3 days:

 

She has "pathways" through the house. Straight from her bed to her food & water. Straight back to bed. Straight from bed to front door. Straight from front down cement walk to patch of grass, do business, turn around come back. Straight back to bed.

 

She's not following me around as much. When she does, she "bumps" my hand with her nose a lot.

 

She uses walls as props. For example when she's approaching her bed, she goes past it, shoulders the wall, then lays down.

 

When eating, she shoulders the wall and eats around the corner (her food bowl is next to a doorway).

 

She mostly does not follow my hand in front of her face... but everynow and then she will

 

The cats have the morning zoomies. normally she grumbles at them when they skid too close to her. Now she's grumbling when they are 10 feet away, like she can hear them, but not see for sure if they are close.

 

She won't jump up in my bed on command. but if I pat the bed, she will. however, she barely clears it. then when she jumps down, its like the floor comes up too soon for her. I won't ask her to jump on the bed anymore.

 

She will pick up a stuffie and carry it around, but now toss it up in the air and catch it like she used to.

 

BUT when you have a treat in your hand she seems to really see it. or is she smelling it?

 

Does this sound like losing her eyesight? She's not actually running into things. Can they know their house so well that they can actually disguise this? Maybe her vision has "holes" in it? Maybe it comes and goes?

 

and of course, this new stuff crops up on weekends & evenings!

 

does anyone have a sight-impaired grey? thoughts or suggestions to make her life easier if this is what she's dealing with?

 

thank you from the heart of both me & Penny

[CaliforniaGreys]

I am so sorry you're going through so much with Penny, and that Penny is going through this.

Judy(Jillysfullhouse) had warned me to watch Misty's eyesight because of the Cushings and one of the things she suggested to me was to toss a few cotton balls directly at them and see if they see it.

Judy went through this with Emmy, she'll have good advice, and Hannah's mom is also going through sight loss with her girl.

 

[Guest argolola]

I will pray for sweet Penny.

[Guest Tuxsmom]

if i toss a cotton ball directly at her, it bounces in front of her or off her nose and she doesn't even blink

 

if i toss a cotton ball to the side, she tracks it.

 

must be losing forward vision? kinda like what macular degeneration does...

[Guest Energy11]

Does sound like she might be losing her peripheral vision. The vet can also check this.

 

Good luck, and continued prayers from here.

[Guest PhillyPups]

I have no experience with loss of sight, but one thing struck me - if she enjoys snuggle time on the bed, with you, you can always "guide" her up gently holding her collar, and also do the same thing to help her down. She does not know what is going on either, so I would keep letting her enjoy all of life's pleasures.

 

to you

[Batmom]

No advice, just hugs for you and your sweet girl.

[TheFullHouse]

Emmy lost her sight with her brain tumor. Like you said, she seemed to be coping so well we didn't even realize it until it was almost gone. She started having trouble jumping in her crate, she stopped getting up on the bed, would go up and down the stairs last, all those little things finally added up to the fact that she wasn't seeing. She finally woke up one Sunday morning totally blind. The other thing was the tumor seemed to have an effect on her sense of smell. We expected that to take over when her eyes failed but it didn't. She couldn't find her food bowl unless we placed in directly in front of her. She also quit chewing. We had to blend all her food.

 

If your cats will put up with it, we put bells on all the dogs so that Emmy would know when they were coming towards her. Andy had a special bell because he stayed with Emmy constantly, never leaving her side. We wanted her to be able to distinguish him from the other hounds so that if she needed him she could find him. She learned how to go up and down the stairs and how to find her way around the yard with Andy's help.

 

Sadly to say, Emmy never did adjust to losing her sight. She started staying on her bed all the time unless it was to go outside to go to the bathroom or to get a drink of water. The day she started having seizures was the day we helped her to the bridge.

 

Hannahsmom's beautiful Hannah lost her sight to SARDS and is doing fantastically well. She should have some good tips for you. I sent her my copy of Living With A Blind Dog and it seemed to help her, hopefully she will chime in.

[Guest Tuxsmom]

thank you for sharing emmy's story. the bells were a wonderful idea, i love the special bell for her special friend, Andy!

 

Penny definitely still has some sight, but with all of this coming on all at once, i would like to be prepared. She ran out to meet her daddy in the yard a bit ago. She seems to see "large" shapes, like the truck. She even dodged the recycle bin in the driveway (remind me to move that later). He threw his hat in the air for her (she usually catches it and runs round and round the yard with it - its their daily ritual), but she didn't see it.

 

phillypups - she definitely enjoys her time in bed with us, she's up here right now actually. i will just help her up & down like you suggested.

 

sorry to seem to needy...all of this is new for me and all of your stories, experience, and words make it much less scary! thanks for that

 

 

 

[TheFullHouse]

I don't see it as needy at all, I wish I had had someone with the same experience to prepare me. We went into this as blind as Emmy unfortunately. We had no clue as to what to expect next. The most perplexing thing was when she quit chewing. Our vet put her under, checked her teeth, scoped down her throat looking for masses and there was nothing. The only thing we could assume was that the tumor was growing and affecting different areas in the brain.

 

I almost didn't put all this out there because I was afraid of scaring you but if it helps then I'm glad I did. If you need anything else, please let me know. If I miss something, just PM me.

[Guest KennelMom]

Hanna lost her sight due to PRA...We've had people try to guess which dog in our pack is blind and no one has been able to...that's how well a blind dog can adjust. Hanna walks around our acre yard, which includes a very wooded/hilly area. She jumps on the bed and on sofas (if you watch carefully she will quickly sniff-sniff the area she's about to jump on to ensure no dog is there already). Even with treats you would amazed at how much it looks like she "sees" the treat...but she's only seeing it with her nose. Despite the vet. opthamologist assuring us that she was 100% blind, we had a hard time believing it for the longest time. We feed meals in our kennel building and she can determine when she walks up to a crate if the door is open or closed. She goes on walks and everything, just like all the other dogs. It's quite amazing really.

 

We don't do bells or special scents or anything like that. Esp if a dog is losing sight over time, rather than suddenly, they will learn to use their other senses and adjust with no problems. I think all those other things tend to be more for the people to feel like they are helping, more than actually helping the dog. The sense of smell and hearing is so acute in a normally sighted dog...even moreso in a dog who relies on those senses almost exclusively. We always refer to Hanna's "hanna-location" of objects....like dolphins use echo-location, Hanna has her own version! One thing I have noticed is that Hanna become a LOT barkier as her eyesight disappeared.

 

You may want to have Penny checked out by a vet. opthalmologist just to know for sure what's going on with her eyes. Some eye conditions can be painful, so you definitely want to make sure nothing like that is going on. That could cause her to be extra sensitive to her space in relation to other pets.

 

I cried for days when I found out Hanna was going blind. It seemed so unfair. But, ya know...she took it a lot better than we did! Nothing seems to phase her...even the occasional "head bump" if momma forgets and leaves something where I shouldn't (though she will often sense them and walk around them anyway). Even normally sighted sighthounds rely so much more on their other sense to interact with and interpret the world around them. We've had a few pups lose their sight through old age and they've all pretty much adjusted like Hanna has. Not a big deal to them.

 

In those early days, after we got her diagnosis, Hanna could pretty much get away with everything. *I* felt so horrible that she was blind. She actually got quite tubby b/c I would give her all kinds of special treats. When she got so bold as to start taking food off our plates as we were eating(!!!) I had a wake up call that, while she was differently abled, it didn't mean she was DISabled...she proved that on a daily basis as she would pretty much live the same life as all the other dogs. Does she tend to get away with a little bit more...yeah...she does...but not to the point that she becomes bratty.

 

Here's my sweet girl...you can see how even in the daylight outside, her eyes are fully dilated.

Edited June 28, 2009 by KennelMom

[seeh2o]

I just saw your thread. I'm sorry that you and Penny are going through this. As Claudia and Judy know, I have a non-grey who lost her sight suddenly to SARD two years ago. Though it doesn't sound like SARD, the best advice I can give you is to go to a reputable veterinary ophthalmologist as soon as you possibly can. If there is any chance that her eyesight can be saved or returned it's best to act quickly. Last year I had a scare with Carl's eyes and he was misdiagnosed twice - once by our "basic needs" vet and once by a vet pretending to be a veterinary ophthalmologist (it turned out that he didn't have Pannus and wasn't going blind, but had icky white deposits on his corneas that were getting worse and worse), long story short, we finally ended up in the care of a great ophthalmologist who worked hand in hand with our vet (equally great!), discovered that Carl's eye problems were related to him being hypothyroid and it is resolving. At the very least, you will know what you are working with.

 

Here is part of what I posted to Hannah's mom when she posted about her loss of sight:

 

"There are some websites that helped a lot. Owners of Blind Dogs, is a great Yahoo group with lot of experience and information, also Lantern Publications has great information as well. When it happened to Sheila I put essential oils low on the door jams, a different oil for each room, so she could learn to get around. I put a bell on Kobie's collar and I wore a bracelet with bells on it so she could hear me. She was depressed for a while, I realized that my crying wasn't helping her, so I had to give myself a kick in the ass to step it up to help her.

 

I think, though Hannah will be depressed for a while until she adjusts, it is more difficult psychologically for us. We don't "live in the moment" like they do, we remember what they were like when they could see and run carefree. She will be ok, she really will.

 

After 2 years Sheila is doing just fine. You'll have to get used to lots of nose prints around the house! Sheila uses her nose to gently guide her around, so she leaves juicy little prints all over, she still plays and loves to go for walks. She's just as willful on walks as she ever was, she doesn't let being blind stop her from wandering around. I bought her a Babble Ball so she could find it when playing, I've found that the taller squeaky plush toys are more helpful as she can find them easier by hitting them with her nose."

 

Dogs adapt so well, it's we humans that have more of a time of it with them. I admit, it's still hard for me to see her blind, but Sheila truly is one happy girl.

 

Please keep us posted on how things are going. Best of luck to you and to Penny.

Edited June 28, 2009 by ckruzan

[Guest KyGrey]

I just ran across this thread and wanted to send good wishes and prayers. I don't have any advice but the ones I would have recommended you getting with have already been in this thread.

 

:bighug

[Guest Tuxsmom]

thanks heather & ckruzan for posting your experiences! i'm sorry, i should have put some background in the OP. I've just been in here so much for the past week, I forget to lay down the background.

 

Penny has been diagnosed with a probable brain lesion/tumor. Her neurological exam confirmed that she has no blink reflex, and her pupils do not respond to light at all. She also has limb ambulatory problems, though she does know *where* they are. I've been to my vet & specialist a few times this week getting to the bottom of it. They have assured me she is in no pain. I hope they are right. But there are no treatment options for me, as brain surgery is kind of out of the question.

 

Here are the related threads:

 

Penny is having seizures

 

Getting some answers...

 

The picture you posted of Hanna looks exactly like Penny's eyes in the light! Totally enlarged pupils.

 

I just wanted to get some knowledge/tips/experiences in dealing with her loss of eyesight, if it comes to that.

 

I love the warning about the noseprints. Penny is certainly touching her nose to EVERYTHING. It's so obvious now, but I didn't notice it before.

 

thanks for all the advice

 

 

[crazygang]

Thinking of you and Penny......been through this ourselves......

 

You'll get good advice here on GT. My only suggestion is don't move your furniture around if you can help it.

[seeh2o]

Oh, June, I just read through the threads you posted, this is just so sad. It is so sudden, my heart goes out to you. I'm sorry I wasn't as informed in my first post, most of what I wrote doesn't even apply. Please don't beat yourself up over the financial stuff, the most important thing is that she knows she is loved and cared for. So many things are beyond our ability, but love and caring are not and no amount of money can buy that.

 

Hugs and healing to you and Penny.

[Guest hannahmom]

You have been given some excellent advice in this thread

GT'ers are the best

 

What worked for us...

Essential oils - just a drop at the door jamb - different scent in every room so she knows where she is.

A drop on the top and bottom stairs and a drop halfway up so she can do the stairs without having to see-we have a long staircase so I put the middle one in. Not too much, that stuff is strong. An added bonus, your home wil smell nice

 

Hannah knew the command " stairs" before she lost her sight - I find that the more I assoicate a verbal cue with an action, dancer or landmark, the easier it is for her

 

We did bells when I had Chinghis and Grover, but with just Grover and Hannah, we don't seem to need it, and the noise drove me batsh!t.

 

Her appetite took a dive, so I make sure to add something stinky in each meal. Winter here in igloo land was rough because things are FROZEN - just something to be aware of.

 

Hannah also got a tad more short tempered around other dog - she can't see them. Of course, she wasn't MAry Poppins to begin with, so the 2 might be completely unconnected.

 

Our yard is fenced, and Hannah goes out by herself - she even runs laps. She has attempted to do flyby's a few time, but that hasn't always gone over so well. She knocked me flat on my butt twice.

 

I think this hit my Boo hard as she is my stubborn opinionated bossy little goober who loved being into everything. She needs a little more TLC and lots more verbal encouragement, but she's still full of mischief and loves life

 

Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions

 

Tena

 

 

 

[Guest Energy11]

thanks heather & ckruzan for posting your experiences! i'm sorry, i should have put some background in the OP. I've just been in here so much for the past week, I forget to lay down the background.

 

Penny has been diagnosed with a probable brain lesion/tumor. Her neurological exam confirmed that she has no blink reflex, and her pupils do not respond to light at all. She also has limb ambulatory problems, though she does know *where* they are. I've been to my vet & specialist a few times this week getting to the bottom of it. They have assured me she is in no pain. I hope they are right. But there are no treatment options for me, as brain surgery is kind of out of the question.

 

Here are the related threads:

 

Penny is having seizures

 

Getting some answers...

 

The picture you posted of Hanna looks exactly like Penny's eyes in the light! Totally enlarged pupils.

 

I just wanted to get some knowledge/tips/experiences in dealing with her loss of eyesight, if it comes to that.

 

I love the warning about the noseprints. Penny is certainly touching her nose to EVERYTHING. It's so obvious now, but I didn't notice it before.

 

thanks for all the advice

 

 

My Curfew was diagnosed with a "possible brain tumor/lesion" too. He had, a seizure in Sept of 2008, and then, "mini strokes" or seizures, starting back in Feb. He is on 190 mg of Phenobarb (levels, liver and kidneys, will be checked this Wed), and Enalapril 20 mg/daily, for his hypertension (high blood pressure). He WAS on Pred, 20 mg, but we have weaned him off that, and he is a lot happier! HIS PUPILS are always large (but look at the dose of Phenobarb he is on), but, prior to that, he had the same problem, and his pupils were not reactive to light. His gait seems fine, but he has weakness in his rear legs (only 7) ... so, does he have a brain tumor/lesion??? No one really knows without an MRI, sooo, we take it day by day. ME? I know one thing, I take his blood pressure daily, and it is well within normal limits. Did high BP cause all of this? ... maybe. But, there WAS a time, when Curfew appeared blind, or had "tunnel vision ..." that, too, has gone.

 

It is VERY hard not knowing exactly what is wrong with these babies, as you well know!

 

Any advice/help, people like you can give us, who have been through this, is greatly appreciated! Thanks! Dee ... I just KNOW I LOVE this boy, and I basically do NOT leave him, ever. He needs me, and I, him. I love them all, but Curfew ... he was the one who came to me, THE DAY after Bold Energy went to The Bridge.

[Guest Tuxsmom]

it sounds like we are going through the exact same thing, Dee. I am comforted to know your boy is still with you 9 months after his first seizure, and that some symptoms have gotten better. That is my hope for Penny, too...

 

Maybe some day MRIs won't be so expensive, and then we can have more answers than questions ...

[Guest Energy11]

it sounds like we are going through the exact same thing, Dee. I am comforted to know your boy is still with you 9 months after his first seizure, and that some symptoms have gotten better. That is my hope for Penny, too...

 

Maybe some day MRIs won't be so expensive, and then we can have more answers than questions ...

Yes, they NEED to make MRIs more affordable, so we can KNOW what is going on! Feel FREE to PM me anytime, and I will give you my personal email! Love, DEE

[Guest MnMDogs]

Mork is also gradually losing his eyesight due to PRA. I don't have any other advice, suggestions that haven't already been said. I just want to reinforce that he has been adjusting seamlessly.

 

But like Heather said, I was devastated with the diagnosis, even though he doesn't let it slow him down one bit.

 

 

[NevadasMom]

Nevada's eyesight declined because of her Cushings disease also. So much of what you write sounds so familiar to me. I think that she was almost blind when she passed away. I think I read somwhere that a dogs eyesight is better with horizontal movement than verticle.

[CaliforniaGreys]

Just wondering how your little girl is doing?