Som Curious Questions On Treatments, Insurance Companys, Meds And So O

[Guest Alexandra_W]

As I am Swedish I have no idea how it is for you guys in general, but now and then I read something and realizes that just that point differs huge compared to Sweden.

 

For example, I read a discussion about were to get meds the cheapest way. And I was a bit amazed. Can you guys buy prescription meds on a variety of places and to difference prices? Here in Sweden you can - so far, it is more and more debated - only buy subscription meds through the government owned pharmacy. And the difference in prices are none. Whatever pharmacy you get in to the price is exactly the same, as they all are the same.

You can't buy wormers and stuff anywere else than by the pharmacy either, and same there about the price, it is the same everywhere. (Horse wormers are prescription only since last year, dogs and cats wormers are still non-prescription, but only sold at the pharmacy).

 

Is it usual with pet insurance to cover for/helt with the vet fees over there? What does the insurance cover/not cover? I read the thread about acupuncture can helt with arthritis. For some years now the insurance companys have paid out for acupuncture in some insurances, but only if the vet does it and it is so ease pain. From april 1st this year, the leading petinsurer in Sweden is whitdrawing the cover for acupuncture treatments all over, as there is no studies to show that it really helps. Doesn't help that numbers of animal owners swear that it has done all the difference for them.

 

Are rehabilitation, like swimming, treadmill, massage, stretching and stuff covered by the insurance? In Sweden some of it is if you have a 'add on' insurance, but it only covers a limited period if time after injury, and only a limited amount of money and very specific types of rehab and in only a number of listed diagnosis.

 

Is meds covered by the insurance? In Sweden they are if you have an add-on insurance, but only to a limited amount of money.

 

I was just getting curious, as I often read about dogs with multiple issues, nedding freq vet vists and a number of medications. I know you guts are much, much more prone to treat over there than we are. For example limb amputation is extremley rare in Sweden, usually a dog in need of an amp. is put down. I make no 'value' in it, saying one side is right and the other is wrong, just notice the difference. And that it means a huge difference in costs for meds, treatments, vet fees and so on. And in Sweden veterinary treatment is (considered, everything is about what you compare it to, but..) to be pretty expensive, and few animal owners can pay out from their own pockets in an unlimited way. So I started wondering how t was 'over there' on the other side of the Atlantic

 

To give an exampel on how a common, Swedish insurance works on a dog I take my boy as an example. I have converted the prices to USD with the current exchange rate.

 

A simple vet visit at the animal hospital, with a general examination, no X-rays, blood samples and so on will be about 190 $ With a standard blood- and urine analys it will be a total of 280$

 

The joint tap, under general anestesia and sample taken from four individual joints was a total of 465$ - and I was suprised, I had expected a lot more.

 

An emergeny visit (ie after 4 pm to before 8 am weekdays, and round the clock on weekdays) STARTS at 370$ just to enter the door, then examinations, samples, X-rays and so on will be added to that. The weekdays daytime emergency fee is about half the sum.

 

50 tabs of 16 mg Medrol is 55$

 

And so on.

 

A common type of insurance, the most used one, with medium level cover for veterinary care will have a.. hmm what do you call it in english. Anyway, a 'start cost' you have to pay by yourself in full. It is between 135$ - 307$, the lower sum the higher the price of the insurance. Then you have to pay usuyally 20% of the total sum exceeding the 'start cost'. One period is about 100 - 125 days.

 

Ie if your dogs need a vet vists at the 1st of the month, and then another one a month later, and then three two weeks later, they are addes togheter and for every 100 - 125 days, you pay one 'start cost' and then (usually) 20%.

[MaryJane]

For example, I read a discussion about were to get meds the cheapest way. And I was a bit amazed. Can you guys buy prescription meds on a variety of places and to difference prices? Here in Sweden you can - so far, it is more and more debated - only buy subscription meds through the government owned pharmacy. And the difference in prices are none. Whatever pharmacy you get in to the price is exactly the same, as they all are the same.

You can't buy wormers and stuff anywere else than by the pharmacy either, and same there about the price, it is the same everywhere. (Horse wormers are prescription only since last year, dogs and cats wormers are still non-prescription, but only sold at the pharmacy).

 

I was just getting curious, as I often read about dogs with multiple issues, nedding freq vet vists and a number of medications. I know you guts are much, much more prone to treat over there than we are. For example limb amputation is extremley rare in Sweden, usually a dog in need of an amp. is put down. I make no 'value' in it, saying one side is right and the other is wrong, just notice the difference. And that it means a huge difference in costs for meds, treatments, vet fees and so on. And in Sweden veterinary treatment is (considered, everything is about what you compare it to, but..) to be pretty expensive, and few animal owners can pay out from their own pockets in an unlimited way. So I started wondering how t was 'over there' on the other side of the Atlantic

 

I can't address your insurance comments because I do not have pet insurance.

 

As to the prescription meds ... usually we are able to get meds from different locations such as the vet, local "people" pharmacy, mail order "people" pharmacy, and on-line/mail order "pet" pharmacy. These have differing prices and offer different medicines. For example, the local "people" pharmacy is not going to carry heartworm medicine (at least not in my area) but, you may be able to get it on line at a "pet" pharmacy. The local pharmacy would carry items like thyroid medicine because the "human" variety is given to pets.

 

Depending on who you talk to, they will have a different opinion of the places that you can get the meds. Vets either offer prescriptions so you can get it at a "people" pharmacy" or get it online/mail order at a "pet" pharmacy or, the vets make you get the medicines at their vet hospital. Note, I'm not making any judgements here - I'm just trying to identify what is provided. One note that I will make here is that I usually support my vet and buy my meds there even though they may cost more but, then again, my dogs have not needed excessive medication where the cost was prohibitive.

 

The mail-order places tend to be cheaper because they do not provide counter services and they can do a "just-in-time" ordering from their suppliers. So for example, people medicine from a mail order pharmacy may take as long as 3 weeks to get.

 

While mail pharmacies for people are regulated, the pet on-line/mail are not (as far as I know). There are some threads on GT and on the internet talking about some vendors stating that they do not sell their pet meds to the mail order firms yet, the mail order firms offer them. This brings up the question -- where do they get the meds. Some of these vendors state that they guarantee pet meds bought from the vet but, not from the mail order. It's a puzzling statement and you can make of it what you will.

 

 

 

 

[greysmom]

I think some of what you're talking about has to do with the difference in health care in the two different countries in general - both for people and pets.

 

We have no state run health care (for people or pets) in the US aside from a few government programs for the elderly and low income. Everything is competitive. You can seek care from many different doctors and health care plans. If you don't have health insurance purchased either through your employer or privately you must pay out-of-pocket for all services.

 

Most managed health care providers (for people) run their own pharmacies under their own procedures, but you can also purchase prescriptions through many other venues such as stand-alone pharmacies, on-line, and even at your local grocery store.

 

It is kind of the same for US pets. Pet insurance is not common here yet, though it is gaining in popularity, so most people have to pay for all services for their pets (and exotic animals, and farm animals) themselves. Veterinarians sell prescriptions through their offices for most common medications - antibiotics, pain meds, flea & tic treatments - and all routine shots. If a prescription is rare or for an uncommon problem you sometimes have to go to another source - another vet, on-line, or through regular people pharmacies.

 

My grey Cash is on a generic version of a people prescription (alprazolam) commonly prescribed for anxiety - Xanax. My vet doesn't stock this drug, so I purchase it through the people pharmacy at my local grocery store, who gives me a discounted price because it's for a pet.

 

As far as all the other treatments - acupuncture, surgery rehabs, massage, and the like - it all must be paid for individually. It is a hard decision here over what people can afford versus what their pets need, especially with the economy being so bad. And many people are choosing to use treatments and procedures that were only used for people - like cancer treatments, MRI's and other scanning procedures, surgery for internal diseases, extended treatment for broken bones, and people drugs.

 

If someone does have pet insurance, it seems to work much like health insurance for people - some things are covered and some things are not depending on the level of care you have purchased. These plans seem to vary widely from company to company in coverage and the amount you pay monthly.

 

I hope this helps clear up some of your confusion.

 

Welcome to Greytalk, by the way!

greysmom

[GeorgeofNE]

I have "catastrophic care" coverage on my dog--meaning I don't get reimbursed for much of anything that's routine--but I found that the cost of the premiums and what they reimbursed cost me MORE than just paying the "regular" expenses. If George needs surgery or something major, I believe the insurance covers about 80% of "covered cost," which is some pre-determined amount. Since vet care in New England (where we live) is MUCH more expensive than some parts of the country, their "covered cost" is not going to be anywhere near the actual cost--but it's better than nothing.

 

My last dog tore his ACL. The surgery and follow up care exceeded $3,000 that I did NOT have. My very kind father paid it, because 1) he could, and 2) he loved that dog! The surgery resulted in a near-fatal bone infection. More surgery and massive amounts of antibiotics cost $4,500. Once again, I didn't have it. Dad said, "I started this, I'll finish it." Otherwise I would have had to euthanize my boy--who at the time was only six.

 

Once he tore his ACL, insurance wouldn't cover ANYTHING relating to his joints or bones--so it was useless.

 

As far as medications--yes, we can get them anywhere that's licensed to sell prescriptions. Some vets don't like you to do that, but mine is very good about it. They have a 100% mark up on their meds--so why would I buy them there if I didn't need them immediately?

 

Very interesting, hearing from someone from Sweden!!

[Guest Alexandra_W]

Once he tore his ACL, insurance wouldn't cover ANYTHING relating to his joints or bones--so it was useless.

 

I have understood that this is very common 'abroad', the same goes for horse insurance in the UK anyway (I read some UK hore magazines). That is a very importand difference in the Swedish pet insurances (dogs, cats, rabbits, horses and so on). They will still cover, without limitations, after a injury/disease.

 

So a Swedish insurance could have paid both anotther tore ACL, and other joint- and bonerealted issues. Over and over again as long as you pay the insurance premium (is that what you c all it in english? The yearly cost for the insurance). Only if you change the insurance in any way - do a change to a more complete form of insurance, raise the levels etc - they will exclude for earlier injuries/diseases.

 

The insurance for dogs and cats, covering veterinary care, will have a yearly limit of $2,500 or $4,900 depending of type. (By almost all comapnies you have to levels to chose from, medium coverage and high coverage, the high coverage will include add on:s and cover more, for example rehab whitin certain limits, the medium coverage will not include rehab at all etc. With some differences between companies, but the differences is at the moment pretty much none, just small things)

 

Routine care, like dentals, worming, spay/neuter that is not because of disease, vaccinations, routine health check ups and so on isn't covered in any insurance.

 

As I Said ppl in Sweden thinks veterinary care is really expensive (and a majority of the animals is insured, and yes ppl complains about the insurance cost too.. *s*), dunno if it is the same, cheaper och more expensive than over there. But I think the feeling that it is (overly) expensive originates just in the Swedish state health care (that I know differs HUGE from your system). Swedish are 'used' to not need to pay much for human healtcare (a maximum of $108 yearly, then the state covers all of the rest, andstill before you have reached $108 yearly, it is state subventioned, so an emergency care visit with all included is $36..) and prescription meds (you pay maximum $217 yearly, and halfway the state pay 50% of the cost, when you have reached $217 it is free of charge for the rest of the year). Even human dental work is state subventioned and so on.

 

But veterinary health care, and all meds prescribed to animals, no matter if it is a human kind or an animal kind, you have to pay the real price. And people are not used to pay the real price for healt and meds. IF they had to, they probably wouldn't complain so much

 

But if pet insurance is uncommon over there, and the cost for veterinary care is about the same as here, then ppl who own dogs needs to have a pretty solid private economy?

 

[Batmom]

Alexandra, here in my medium-sized city, most costs are a lot less than yours. I don't have insurance for my pets because I don't believe it would be cost-effective for me.

 

A simple vet visit at the animal hospital, with a general examination, no X-rays, blood samples and so on will be about 190 $

Here, vet visit and general exam are $30. Repeat visit for the same issue is @ $20. Some simple issues, such as having my dog's corn removed repeatedly, the vet will charge me less -- just $10-$15.

 

With a standard blood- and urine analys it will be a total of 280$

Here, blood test is $35 (basic blood values) - $85 (for complete workup plus accurate platelet count). Urinalysis is $15-$20, fecal analysis is I think $12. First x-ray is @ $35, more are a little less each. Simple ultrasound is I think $60. I don't remember what vaccine costs are.

 

The joint tap, under general anestesia and sample taken from four individual joints was a total of 465$ - and I was suprised, I had expected a lot more.

I have not had this done but am guessing my cost would be about the same.

 

An emergeny visit (ie after 4 pm to before 8 am weekdays, and round the clock on weekdays) STARTS at 370$ just to enter the door, then examinations, samples, X-rays and so on will be added to that. The weekdays daytime emergency fee is about half the sum.

Here, my regular vet is open until 7 p.m. most weekdays and will handle emergencies. The regular vet is also open Saturdays until 4 p.m. For other times, our emergency vet charges $85-$100 to walk in the door.

 

50 tabs of 16 mg Medrol is 55$

Here, prednisone and similar are $0.05 - $0.50 per pill, depending on what type exactly.

 

[Guest Alexandra_W]

I will move to the US (If I can take my health benefits with me *s*)

 

Is it common with vet clinics/hospitals open at evenings and weekends? It is pretty unusal here, it is coming more and more that some clinics are open to like 7 or 9 pm some nights a week, and have open for simple 'walk in stuff' lite simple examinations, vaccinations and so, on some hours (like 10 am - 2 pm) on saturdays. But usually if you need veterinary care after like 4 - 5 pm and before 8-9 am, your choices are limited. Either if you are lucky living close by some of the big animal hospitals, or you are lucky enough to have a 'district veterinary' that take in dogs by night. The district veterinarys are first hand for farm animals though, second for horses and then if they want and got the time, they can take care of dogs. Motsly just prep the dog for like an extended travel to a larger hospital - and it can be several hours drive away.

 

For example, in the capital - Stockholm, there is ONE hospital that is open 24/7, and a few that are open until like 10 pm. And for total in Sweden it is only 4-5 animal hospitals open 24/7. Then like I said som of the veterinary districts can help, and in some cases ypur local vet might be 'nice' and take you in even on 'odd hours'. But if things go really bad, you have like 4 -5 in total, in the entire country.

 

And the northest one is Uppsala, meaning that people can have a 600 kilometer drive to it. Unbelievable but true.

[Batmom]

I will move to the US (If I can take my health benefits with me *s*)

 

Is it common with vet clinics/hospitals open at evenings and weekends?

 

Here, human things are MUCH more expensive, and some people have no insurance at all. The basic cost for a human office visit is $80-$100, just to be looked at for 3 minutes. The type of human insurance that will pay for that cost is usually @ $400 or more per person per month.

 

I'm not sure if other veterinarians are open in the evening and weekends, or how many emergency after-hours veterinarians there are. I'm pretty sure a lot of vets in my town have some open hours on Saturday morning. My vet clinic is fairly large, with 6-7 vets, usually 2-3 on duty seeing patients and the rest in surgeries. It is mostly "walk in" with no appointments. I think they do a good business in the early evening and on Saturday because so many humans work during the weekdays. They used to be open on Sunday morning but not now .