Taking Rudy In Today For A Thyroid Test

[seeh2o]

I agree, I would insist on a FULL thyroid panel, there should be no disagreement as he is your dog and you are paying the bill for the test. If your vet balks or refuses I would start looking for another vet. I had to do that with Carl.

 

Here is an excerpt and a link to Jean Dodd's page about thyroid testing. We sent Carl's blood there for testing, Dr. Dodd's does the diagnostic analysis as well.

 

"Note, Regarding Thyroid testing:

 

The COMPLETE Thyroid Panel is needed for an ACCURATE diagnosis and assessment of Thyroid Function. Dr. Dodds' Thyroid Panel # D8T provides the values for: T3, T4, free T3, free T4, T3 Autoantibodies and T4 Autoantibodies. The fee for that testing is $65., which includes Dr. Dodds' expert interpretation."

 

Website link

Edited November 25, 2008 by ckruzan

[Batmom]

If the dog's T4 is 1.4, he's showing his thyroid can work. Generally no need for a thyroid panel in that case. If it were the other way round -- T4 of, say, .1 -- then you'd want to do the full panel before medicating.

 

T4 can fluctuate enormously from day to day. But if one of those fluctuations is up within appropriate range, you don't have a hypothyroid dog.

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

For catching a urine sample, we used a tupperware container taped to a dowel. I just went out in the yard with Frank when he needed to pee, waited until he started, and slipped the container into the stream, no need to even bend down! The vet's office uses a similar contraption. Good luck to you.

[CaliforniaGreys]

I agree, I would insist on a FULL thyroid panel, there should be no disagreement as he is your dog and you are paying the bill for the test. If your vet balks or refuses I would start looking for another vet. I had to do that with Carl.

 

Here is an excerpt and a link to Jean Dodd's page about thyroid testing. We sent Carl's blood there for testing, Dr. Dodd's does the diagnostic analysis as well.

 

"Note, Regarding Thyroid testing:

 

The COMPLETE Thyroid Panel is needed for an ACCURATE diagnosis and assessment of Thyroid Function. Dr. Dodds' Thyroid Panel # D8T provides the values for: T3, T4, free T3, free T4, T3 Autoantibodies and T4 Autoantibodies. The fee for that testing is $65., which includes Dr. Dodds' expert interpretation."

 

Website link

This is what I've always been told, not only by Jean, but my own vet as well.

[Batmom]

Um ... I respectfully disagree with those who would submit a full thyroid panel for a dog who -1- does not have hypothyroid-specific symptoms, and most especially -2- does not show anything even vaguely resembling a low T4. The T4 is in range for other breeds, let alone greyhounds. To say that such a dog needs a full thyroid panel is to say that every dog needs a full thyroid panel. I really don't believe that that is true, and I would challenge you to find a vet -- other than perhaps Dr. Dodds -- who agrees with you.

 

 

 

ETA: If you read MSU's FAQ: http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/FAQ/Endocr...roid_Canine.php -- keeping in mind that these folks are the gold standard for thyroid testing in dogs -- you will find that there are some conditions where there may be a normal T4 and still be thyroidal illness. Those conditions are so few and far between that I would not even think of spending the $ for a panel in this case. The dog has no truly pathological symptoms, and nothing that points to hypothyroidism. He's a shy greyhound, newly out of kennel and in a home. Nothing pathological or hypothyroidic about that at all.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Batmom

[Guest Patti604]

urine sample..... soup laddle. !!!!! That is what they use at the vet here.

[seeh2o]

Um ... I respectfully disagree with those who would submit a full thyroid panel for a dog who -1- does not have hypothyroid-specific symptoms, and most especially -2- does not show anything even vaguely resembling a low T4. The T4 is in range for other breeds, let alone greyhounds. To say that such a dog needs a full thyroid panel is to say that every dog needs a full thyroid panel. I really don't believe that that is true, and I would challenge you to find a vet -- other than perhaps Dr. Dodds -- who agrees with you.

 

 

 

ETA: If you read MSU's FAQ: http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/FAQ/Endocr...roid_Canine.php -- keeping in mind that these folks are the gold standard for thyroid testing in dogs -- you will find that there are some conditions where there may be a normal T4 and still be thyroidal illness. Those conditions are so few and far between that I would not even think of spending the $ for a panel in this case. The dog has no truly pathological symptoms, and nothing that points to hypothyroidism. He's a shy greyhound, newly out of kennel and in a home. Nothing pathological or hypothyroidic about that at all.

 

That's good information. My post suggesting a full thyroid panel was based on the symptoms listed in OP (not merely what Rudy's T4 results were), which, collectively, are classic symptoms or hypothyroid:

 

Several people suggested I have his thyroid checked. After reading about the symptoms, he has quite a few:

 

Excessive thirst

bacterial skin infections

depression

rough coat

darkened pigmentation of the skin

balding

sensitive to cold

 

Aside from that, it's sure not going to do any harm to run the full panel, the cost isn't that much more, even sending to U of M, the cost of the test (not including shipping) is listed as $41.00.

 

I'm also responding based on my very recent (last week!) experience with Carl. He has only 1 classic symptom of hypothyroid, patterned balding. His non-classic symptom, which we are trying to determine if it is related to being hypothyroid, are corneal rings. When he started losing his fur last June the vet ran a full blood panel (not a full thyroid panel) on him and his T 4 was well within normal range, but the symptom(s) continued to get worse, so I followed up with an eye specialist. His diagnosis felt very tentative and unsure, so I went to vet #3 who ran the thyroid panel and we discovered that his T4 and free T4 values were low.

Edited November 26, 2008 by ckruzan

[CaliforniaGreys]

Um ... I respectfully disagree with those who would submit a full thyroid panel for a dog who -1- does not have hypothyroid-specific symptoms, and most especially -2- does not show anything even vaguely resembling a low T4. The T4 is in range for other breeds, let alone greyhounds. To say that such a dog needs a full thyroid panel is to say that every dog needs a full thyroid panel. I really don't believe that that is true, and I would challenge you to find a vet -- other than perhaps Dr. Dodds -- who agrees with you.

 

 

 

ETA: If you read MSU's FAQ: http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/FAQ/Endocr...roid_Canine.php -- keeping in mind that these folks are the gold standard for thyroid testing in dogs -- you will find that there are some conditions where there may be a normal T4 and still be thyroidal illness. Those conditions are so few and far between that I would not even think of spending the $ for a panel in this case. The dog has no truly pathological symptoms, and nothing that points to hypothyroidism. He's a shy greyhound, newly out of kennel and in a home. Nothing pathological or hypothyroidic about that at all.

 

That's good information. My post suggesting a full thyroid panel was based on the symptoms listed in OP (not merely what Rudy's T4 results were), which, collectively, are classic symptoms or hypothyroid:

 

Several people suggested I have his thyroid checked. After reading about the symptoms, he has quite a few:

 

Excessive thirst

bacterial skin infections

depression

rough coat

darkened pigmentation of the skin

balding

sensitive to cold

 

Aside from that, it's sure not going to do any harm to run the full panel, the cost isn't that much more, even sending to U of M, the cost of the test (not including shipping) is listed as $41.00.

 

I'm also responding based on my very recent (last week!) experience with Carl. He has only 1 classic symptom of hypothyroid, patterned balding. His non-classic symptom, which we are trying to determine if it is related to being hypothyroid, are corneal rings. When he started losing his fur last June the vet ran a full blood panel (not a full thyroid panel) on him and his T 4 was well within normal range, but the symptom(s) continued to get worse, so I followed up with an eye specialist. His diagnosis felt very tentative and unsure, so I went to vet #3 who ran the thyroid panel and we discovered that his T4 and free T4 values were low.

Misty displayed no signs of hypothyroid. She was losing her nails, that was it. Quite a few of us thought SLO for sure but, it was her thyroid. Her nails were removed, she was put on Soloxine and her nails are coming back in normal. Her t4 really didn't indicate the need for a full panel but I'm sure glad one was done.

[Batmom]

Even low T4 and fT4 values aren't diagnostic for hypothyroid. Coupled with high TSH they could be. By themselves, they aren't. Read the MSU material to see why I say that.

 

The symptoms that OP describes COULD be characteristics of a hypothyroid dog. They could also be characteristics of a perfectly NORMAL greyhound/sighthound. So they aren't really hypothyroid-specific.

[Guest argolola]

We just got back from the vet getting Rudy's urinalysis. We thought the fever might be caused by a UTI.

 

As it turns out, that was not the problem. They found bilirubin in the specimen of +4. Can someone tell me what this could mean? Liver disease ane hepatitis were mentioned.

 

Thanks so much for your input.

[tbhounds]

I wouldn't worry too much about the bili--kinda common to see it in greys. How was the bloodwork (besides the t4)?

[Guest argolola]

I wouldn't worry too much about the bili--kinda common to see it in greys. How was the bloodwork (besides the t4)?

 

We only had the thyroid test done, and then the urinalysis. Now we start from scratch with a full CBC.

Edited November 26, 2008 by argolola

[greytluck]

Don't worry about the bilirubin in his urine, it's common in male greyhounds. When Hobbes had a UTI a while back a vet (one who I thought was greyhound savvy) got me all concerned about this exact same thing. The vet also mentioned about liver problems and what not, I come to find out it's nothing at all.

[tbhounds]

Your vet should run a routine chem panel and a cbc. The chem panel will give you liver values (among other values i.e. kidney....) How's the temp today--normal now?? Also--a T-4 of 1.4 is if anything high for a greyhound--usually if your grey is hypothyroid the T-4 will be much lower indicating further testing (full panel)needed.

[CaliforniaGreys]

Whatever is going on with Rudy, if anything medical, I sure hope they get to the bottom of it and he starts to feel better.

[seeh2o]

How's Rudy doing today?

[Guest argolola]

We go back for more tests this afternoon. We should know something on Friday.

 

My poor boy just wants to lay around. Today, in the sunlight, I noticed how off his coloring is. It's so weird. Last night I found some odd skin underneath him (too bad he won't roach, so I can examine him.)

 

Thanks everyone. I will keep you posted.

[seeh2o]

I really hope you can get this figured out soon and Rudy will be on the mend. The not knowing is so incredibly frustrating.

[ShantisMom]

I cannot tell you how much I hate the not knowing! I am sure you are the same. I hope the next set of tests give you some answers and you will have a happy, healthy boy in no time!

 

Have a great Thanksgiving!!!

[CaliforniaGreys]

We're thinking about Rudy too!!

[Guest argolola]

We just got back from another blood test and getting the results. The doctor is stumped!

 

He has high RBC, HCT and HGB. His WBC is low and so are the platelets.

 

The doc can do more tests (we are tapped out right now) or treat for TBD with Doxy, which she is doing. I am to report in on Tuesday to let her know how he's progressing. He still has a fever, tonight it was 103. He had bilirubin in the urine on Monday of 4.0 but in the blood today the level was 0.1

 

He still just wants to lay in his cage, eat, drink and pee. That's it. Nothing else really interests him. The doc agreed he looks depressed, but she thinks he has probably had this fever for at least 6 weeks. His poor ears are red.

 

The other thing she is speculating a clotting disorder if not a TBD.

 

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks for all your help and interest in my boy. I love him so much.

[Guest hannahmom]

Sending cuddles for your boy

[CaliforniaGreys]

I know there are a few different things that can cause a clotting disorder but the only one I've had experience with is Von Willebrands. Have had 2 Greys with this disorder.But I know there are people here who are well versed with this. Just out of curiosity, is your vet pretty Grey savy?

[Guest argolola]

I know there are a few different things that can cause a clotting disorder but the only one I've had experience with is Von Willebrands. Have had 2 Greys with this disorder.But I know there are people here who are well versed with this. Just out of curiosity, is your vet pretty Grey savy?

Thanks. Our vet practice has several vets, but we got our favorite vet tonight. She is fairly grey saavy. Von Willebrands was the first thing I thought of.

[Batmom]

Did doc say how low platelets were? Just out of curiosity. From all you've said, and in your situation, treating with doxy sounds like a reasonable option. Fingers crossed for your Rudy.