A Dog Receiving Chemo I Have A Question

[Madeara]

Asia will get an echocartiogram on Thursday then if her heart is good she will get her first round of Chemo.

 

Can a dog on chemo have a lower resistance to infections and viruses like people?

Edited August 12, 2008 by Madeara

[patricia]

I asked that same question and Oncology told me yes. Angel LaceyLaine had very frequent blood tests. Edited to add...she also had labs and we had to wait for the results before each chemo session.

Edited August 12, 2008 by patricia

[Guest KRKWMU]

Yes, that is true. She'll definitely have a lower resistance to fight infections. We use filtered water from our fridge and also santize the dishes and bowls we use for Bonnie. The book "Help Your Dog Fight Cancer" has a lot of good tips that I've learned.

 

Good luck Let us know how things go

[Madeara]

She will have a CBC before each treatment and after 3 treatments I will have another echocartiogram done since she is taking rounds of doxarubicin.

Now I am afrraid to bring her to the vet to get the chemo if her resistance is down I don't want her to catch anything.

 

Please I don't have time to get the book this is starting on Thursday can anyone tell me more what to do and be careful of ? so far it is sanitizing dish and filtered water.

 

[patricia]

She will have a CBC before each treatment and after 3 treatments I will have another echocartiogram done since she is taking rounds of doxarubicin.

Now I am afrraid to bring her to the vet to get the chemo if her resistance is down I don't want her to catch anything.

 

Please I don't have time to get the book this is starting on Thursday can anyone tell me more what to do and be careful of ? so far it is sanitizing dish and filtered water.

We were told to use the dishwasher for Lacers bowls...filtered water...no baths(it was fall and winter)...make sure that she was warm (feel their ears)...We always put her coat on her when she went out...clean up poo and pee outside, especially the first 3 days after chemo...(This was for our safety and the other puppers safety) She told us nothing raw because she was not on a raw diet...They also told us that if any humans had a cold or flu or virus...to try and keep our distance from her. Also...when we had Oncology appointments...chemo patients were taken right back or put in an exam room and not left in the regular waiting room with sick pets. If I can think of anything else...I will let you know. Edited to add: NO VACCINATIONS!!! Also...as you know...some of the chemo agents can be toxic to the heart(that is why your sweetie is having an echo) and bladder...Lacers drank best when her water was just poured...we were constantly doing her water bowl and she did drink very well for us.

Edited August 12, 2008 by patricia

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

It sounds like you know this, but in a small percentage of patients, doxarubicin can cause heart damage. Each dose increases the risk and there is a generally accepted limit (at least for people) of how much doxarubicin one can have. I'd glad to hear Asia will have a cardiac echo before it's used. Humans get echos before doxy but lots of canine patients don't.

 

The canine dosing for chemo agents tends to be lower per pound than humans. I don't know why. That's one of the reasons quoted to me that canines have fewer side effects.

 

It will lower the immune system. Some protocols have the CBC checked mid-cycle and some only check before the next cycle. If it's too low, chemo is postponed a week or more. Don't freak out, it happens often. The thing to keep an eye on is her temperature. I had doxyrubicin myself for breast cancer. My oncologist told me he was more worried about the bacteria previously in my system than picking up viral agents. However, I would limit contact with dogs outside the household during this period.

 

doxyrubicin = Adriamycin (aka, the red devil). It's bright red and her pee may be red the first day.

 

Someone else mentioned chemo being hard on the bladder. Cytoxan is the one that irritates the bladder and the patient needs to flush it from the system as quickly as possible.

 

Feel free to ask questions. I've been through it myself and had 2 dogs go through it.

[Madeara]

Thanks you guys, now I am worried

 

also I found this site that I just read and wonder if it isn't strong enough is it all worth it?

 

http://www.dogcancercare.com/ConventionalTreatments.html

 

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Thanks you guys, now I am worried

 

also I found this site that I just read and wonder if it isn't strong enough is it all worth it?

 

http://www.dogcancercare.com/ConventionalTreatments.html

 

Relax, I didn't mean to worry you. I don't know the reason the doses are less per pound than human chemo, but neither does the person who posted on that web site. Being an engineer, I tend to look at statistics. The current median life expectancy is 5 months with amputation alone and 12-14 months with amputation with chemo. So it does make a significant difference.

[Madeara]

What it in the poo and pee (how to clean up pee?) that causes an issue? isnt' most of it absorbed?

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Thanks you guys, now I am worried

 

also I found this site that I just read and wonder if it isn't strong enough is it all worth it?

 

http://www.dogcancercare.com/ConventionalTreatments.html

 

Relax, I didn't mean to worry you. I don't know the reason the doses are less per pound than human chemo, but neither does the person who posted on that web site. Being an engineer, I tend to look at statistics. The current median life expectancy is 5 months with amputation alone and 12-14 months with amputation with chemo. So it does make a significant difference.

 

The more I read on that web site the angrier I get. I have a pet peeve with people who spout unproven "cures" and "preventions" for cancer with little or no science behind it. Especially the ones trying to make money off it. oh wait a minute.... maybe I can make money off Morgan being 31 months post osteo diagnosis!! ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Batmom]

Don't worry yourself sick, OK?

 

Batman had one round of chemo. I chose not to give him more because -a- there was only a small chance that it would very temporarily shrink his mass, -b- it trashed his white count (which is what you need to fight infections), and then -c- for the first time in his life with me, the antibiotics given for the low white count made him sick. Ai yi yi. But. The important bits I learned were:

 

1 - If in doubt, keep an eye on the pup's temperature. Batman never had a temp. Just an almost-nonexistent white count for a week or two.

 

2 - Where there is one antibiotic, there are more! We switched him to an antibiotic that did not make him sick, until his white count climbed again.

 

3 - I chose to call my vet from the parking lot so we could just hustle back to a room instead of hanging about at the front desk, in the waiting room, etc. But if I had wanted, doc would've come out to the truck to do the blood draw, and we also have a mobile vet in this area.

 

4 - The cost of blood tests is not insignificant. The chemo cost me only $84 per dose, and I could give it at home myself (oral drug). That one dose of chemo necessitated 1 blood test before and 2-3 after, at $75 a pop. I could've opted for a less comprehensive blood test (which was all that was recommended in the protocol) for $35-$40, but I wanted an accurate platelet count each time and that costs.

 

The upshot, from my point of view, is that chemo is not benign stuff. It has side effects. It may have indirect costs. And those things may be quite manageable, but it helps to be aware of them in advance.

 

Lots of hugs for you and yours.

[patricia]

What it in the poo and pee (how to clean up pee?) that causes an issue? isnt' most of it absorbed?

I used my regular scoop rake and pan. Urine the first 48 hours I poured a bucket of water where Lacey urinated. They also told me that if there was an accident in the house to clean it very well and wear gloves. Chemo agents are excreted through the urine and feces.

I know that things sound overwhelming...but it gets easier once you begin. Oncology will go over all the things that you need to be concerned with and things to watch for. My heart and prayers are with you. Edited to add: Oncology will also have you watch her IV site for any redness or swelling. If some of the chemo agent leaks from the vein onto the skin...there can be problems. We NEVER had any problems in that area. You will be fine once you start...I promise. Oncology explained to me that the amount of chemo given to pets is much less as we are aiming for remission...not cure. Edited to add one more thing: I chatted with a lady at Oncology clinic who had a grey named Sable. She was 3 years out after amputation and chemo...she was there for a check up and she looked and felt so good and she got a very good report that day! Chanting for you both.

Edited August 12, 2008 by patricia

[Bevd]

Darcy had Doxorubacyn (my spelling of that changes each and every time I type it, but you all know what I mean!) and carboplatin. She had hers at 3 week intervals and she had her blood counts done mid way between each cycle, PLUS directly before the next treatment.

 

We had to use gloves to dispose of any poo/pee/anything else for the first 48 hours after each treatment because the carcinogens (oh please pardon my terrible spelling) would be shed for that long after treatment, in her bodily functions.

 

Yes, the dose is lower than in humans - and the side effects can be lower too. Is it worth it, if it's a lower dose?

 

 

(give us another 3 days and we can celebrate 10 months post diagnosis and amputation)

 

Edited to add:- Darcy never had to skip/postpone a treatment and never had any side effects until the very last dose (doxorubacin). She has VERY mild heart damage from this drug. But it's a pay off we'll take.

 

Love to you and to Asia

 

Another edit - I was *so* scared before Darcy had her first treatment. I felt physically ill from the thought of it. I had terrible visions in my head about what we were about to do to her and I couldn't imagine what the actual process would even look like and how Darcy would react whilst it was happening to her. After that first treatment, I was fine (as was Darcy). During treatment three (of four) I took some pics of the chemo being administered so that I could share them with anyone who might want to see in the future (maybe to remove a little of the fear). I'll find the pics for you ...

Edited August 13, 2008 by Bevd

[Bevd]

This was carboplatin going in. The doxorubacin went in more slowly, via a drip, so on those days, we left Darcy with the vet for a couple of hours and then collected her later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finished (but she's not really noticed)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can I go home now for my dinner? (yes, you can)

 

[Madeara]

Oh Darcy.

 

Ok I have to digest all that I have read this morning and I DO very much appreciate the help and information. You left Darcy at the vets like I am supposed to for like a couple of hours to get the results of the CBC and then the chemo. I am afraid to do that with all the other animals there. He said that she could stay in his office and that was at my request last week saying that I am very protective of her and do not want any stress, now she should definately be in there but there is a couple of cats that roam the place that they adopted, missing legs ect. Should that be a issue?

I am asking these questions and thank god you guys are giving me the answers. I do suppose my vet would tell me but should not I know all this ahead of time to prepare???

 

Yes Patricia I am very afraid of this whole thing, I do not want her to feel sick and I want remission, remission is only temporary??? I want her to beat this

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

I want remission, remission is only temporary??? I want her to beat this

Morgan is now 31 months post-amputation. That's pretty long for temporary.

[Bevd]

Audrey, I think what you have to remember regarding possible infection is that you walk the streets (if you pardon the phrase ) and your other animals also walk about outside so any of you can walk anything into your home. I was in the same position with Darcy and also when we had Ned as a pup who was yet to complete his vaccinations. Nothing happened to my two and nothing will happen to yours. You have to get it into perspective. Your vet is not going to expose your dog to any infection (or no more infection than she is exposed to on any normal day inside or outside of your home). But what he will do is give her the medication that she needs to get better. It's a balance - and it's tipped in Asia's favour. And remission - I don't see remission as a temporary thing. I see it as helping the dog be here and be comfortable for today. We all know what the eventual outcome will be with ALL our dogs, currently healthy or not - so the best thing is to deal with today only and let tomorrow look after itself.

 

I now prescribe (for you) some Rescue Remedy and some deep breaths

[patricia]

If you can...do something for you while your baby is getting her treatment. For me...it was an hour drive to Oncology so I did not go back home until she was done. While Lacey was having her treatment...I treated myself to lunch and thought about what we would do to make this and each day we had left with our girl special. Even going to chemo...we made precious memories. We stopped for ice cream...took a walk in the park...I tried to do something special with Lacey after each treatment to try and make it a good time for her...you see she was VERY nervous and scared in any type of clinical setting. You see with Lymphoma...it is a very long protocol...Asia will be through with her chemo much sooner and this will be behind you. All I can say is live each day for today and make each day special...it's not easy but I tried to not think about tomorrow until tomorrow came. You both will be fine!

 

I want remission, remission is only temporary??? I want her to beat this

Morgan is now 31 months post-amputation. That's pretty long for temporary.

Morgan...you rock sweetie!

[Batmom]

Audrey, I think what you have to remember regarding possible infection is that you walk the streets (if you pardon the phrase ) and your other animals also walk about outside so any of you can walk anything into your home.

 

There you go.

 

What you would not want to happen would be Asia hanging around for an hour in the vet's waiting room rubbing noses with a bunch of dogs with, say, kennel cough. And you and your vet have already made arrangements to prevent that.

[Madeara]

Audrey, I think what you have to remember regarding possible infection is that you walk the streets (if you pardon the phrase ) and your other animals also walk about outside so any of you can walk anything into your home. I was in the same position with Darcy and also when we had Ned as a pup who was yet to complete his vaccinations. Nothing happened to my two and nothing will happen to yours. You have to get it into perspective. Your vet is not going to expose your dog to any infection (or no more infection than she is exposed to on any normal day inside or outside of your home). But what he will do is give her the medication that she needs to get better. It's a balance - and it's tipped in Asia's favour. And remission - I don't see remission as a temporary thing. I see it as helping the dog be here and be comfortable for today. We all know what the eventual outcome will be with ALL our dogs, currently healthy or not - so the best thing is to deal with today only and let tomorrow look after itself.

 

I now prescribe (for you) some Rescue Remedy and some deep breaths

 

 

Thank you I understand and I needed to hear that, maybe a Xanax will help

 

THANK YOU!

 

If you can...do something for you while your baby is getting her treatment. For me...it was an hour drive to Oncology so I did not go back home until she was done. While Lacey was having her treatment...I treated myself to lunch and thought about what we would do to make this and each day we had left with our girl special. Even going to chemo...we made precious memories. We stopped for ice cream...took a walk in the park...I tried to do something special with Lacey after each treatment to try and make it a good time for her...you see she was VERY nervous and scared in any type of clinical setting. You see with Lymphoma...it is a very long protocol...Asia will be through with her chemo much sooner and this will be behind you. All I can say is live each day for today and make each day special...it's not easy but I tried to not think about tomorrow until tomorrow came. You both will be fine!

 

I want remission, remission is only temporary??? I want her to beat this

Morgan is now 31 months post-amputation. That's pretty long for temporary.

Morgan...you rock sweetie!

 

 

you really are a good Mommie!

 

Audrey, I think what you have to remember regarding possible infection is that you walk the streets (if you pardon the phrase ) and your other animals also walk about outside so any of you can walk anything into your home.

 

There you go.

 

What you would not want to happen would be Asia hanging around for an hour in the vet's waiting room rubbing noses with a bunch of dogs with, say, kennel cough. And you and your vet have already made arrangements to prevent that.

 

 

Gotcha! I will not wait in the waiting room nor let her rub noses (which she certainly will not anyway)

Edited August 13, 2008 by Madeara

[Bevd]

Seriously Audrey, if you think Xanax will help and it's something you normally take then take one. You've told your vets that you don't want Asia stressed (which we all understand!) but you need to get your own stress/anxiety levels down because you can guarantee that YOUR stress/anxiety will have an effect on Asia

 

(I speak as an anxiety sufferer, so I'm not preaching - I'm just very familar with the horrible feelings).

[Madeara]

Thanks Bev I am always calm before my dogs, I may have a hugh lump in my throat but I have been able to handle extreme emergencies without falling apart whether human or animals. I just don't want a mistake to happen or have to say "I didn't know" or "If I only knew" I research everything, I have a binder with all information, emails etc. All vets have been impressed with my knowledge or questions wanting to understand what and how procedures are done and why. Of course a lot of information has been from GT I sound like a baby but I am a hard egg, just ask my husband. When I lose a pet I greive hard, very hard. But I am strong otherwise. I do have anxiety and I have a few Xanax for extreme attacks. Not often, but they really can smooth ya out

 

Thanks everyone!

[Patsy]

White light coming your way for a peaceful experience, fun on the way home, and perhaps an adult beverage for mom.

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

you really are a good Mommie!

 

That's very nice, but I can't take credit for his longevity. He's just one of the lucky ones. It wasn't caught early either since we found out he had osteo. when his leg broke coming down the stairs.

[Guest KRKWMU]

Thanks Bev I am always calm before my dogs, I may have a hugh lump in my throat but I have been able to handle extreme emergencies without falling apart whether human or animals. I just don't want a mistake to happen or have to say "I didn't know" or "If I only knew" I research everything, I have a binder with all information, emails etc. All vets have been impressed with my knowledge or questions wanting to understand what and how procedures are done and why. Of course a lot of information has been from GT I sound like a baby but I am a hard egg, just ask my husband. When I lose a pet I greive hard, very hard. But I am strong otherwise. I do have anxiety and I have a few Xanax for extreme attacks. Not often, but they really can smooth ya out

 

Thanks everyone!

 

Just now catching up on things...I haven't been on the computer in 2 days!

 

I realize this is a lot to take in. Once you start the process, I think it may be easier than you are expecting. You'll find strength to help yourself and Asia. Don't worry too much about the little things. You'll learn what works and what doesn't, as you go along. Research is good. I keep a day calendar with Bonnie's medication schedule and also any reactions, side effects, etc. This has helped me stay organized and keep track of patterns. I also have several good articles and all of the contact info for "Team Bonnie" in that planner.

 

You might want to ask about some medications to have on hand in case Asia has diarrhea or appetite issues after the chemo. Bonnie takes a couple of medications to help with nausea and also gets a probiotic tablet with each meal.

 

Keep asking questions as you think of things. Good luck as you begin. Give Asia a big kiss from us.