Acupuncture Questions - And A Story

[3DogNite]

I need some of your advise about acupuncture, and your dogs reaction to the treatments

 

Rascal had acupuncture for the first time 2 days ago (thursday), and his reaction to the treatment is quite different than what I expected to see...

 

Some background: Rascal tore both Achilles tendons 2 1/2 yrs ago, he is healed very well, and is mostly pain free.

Recently He has been running in the back yard and coming up lame on his back left leg.. the whole leg is acting like it is paralyzed. Rascal drags the foot, and it crosses,, then the toes knuckle under,, and he is in a lot of pain,, for an hour he cries and whines... this dog didn't utter a peep when Both Achilles tendons were torn, and didn't vocalize once thru the whole rehab.... His lameness has been happening with more frequency, starting about 2 months ago, and now it happens every other week or so,, it usually gets better in a day or two with rimadyl, tramadol (or hydrocodone if the pain is really bad!)

 

anyway,, he had ex-rays, CLEAN!. the legs, the back, everything looks fine. the only place he showed pain was between the hip bones alone the spine.. so we are thinking LS,, or pinched nerve.

 

So...I took him for acupuncture, this is a Vet, who has accreditation for acupuncture. She felt around rascals legs, and back and then she put the needles in. Rascal was VERY nervous, and never relaxed thru the whole thing. She took the needles out (after 20 min or so) He could hardly walk, BOTH his back legs were shaking sooo badly that he couldn't stand still.. he had to walk and in only a couple of steps, I knew he wanted to lay down. Now, 2 days later, He still has NO stamina in his back legs. He goes out to pee,, and comes in and lays down,, in fact if i don't let him in right away,, he will lay down outside on the snow!!! NOT like him at all!!! He eats dinner laying down, he is very lethargic,, until someone comes to visit and he jumps up and wags his tail and smiles at them,, then goes right back and lays down,,,,

He is still VERY sore, and I have been giving him rimadyl AND Tramadol daily (which is partly why i went for acupuncture in the first place to get him off the pain pills!)

 

anyway,, sorry this is long... my question is,, is this normal to have 2 days of not very good reaction to the acupuncture. I really expected him to feel GREYT by the next day! he is not back to normal and i feel like he has gotten worse actually. when I run my fingers down his spine all the way to his tail,, he really flinches when I get to the hip bones, which he NEVER did before. The vet wants to do treatment weekly, for 5 sessions. Do you think he will have this kind of reaction all the time? I will do the treatment and keep him very quiet, i just wonder what's going on in his body,,,,,,,

 

Then i wonder about the LS.. I printed Dr. Stack's article, gave it to the vet.. she said she would read it, and think about doing the shot if the acupuncture didn't improve his situation. She said she'd feel better if we did an MRI,,, i said,, but if the shot works,, then LS is the issue and we know it without doing the MRI,,, ect.. yadda, yadda, yadda,,,,

 

what do you all think? I'm worried about Rascal's attitude after this first acupuncture treatment. and the soreness that he is feeling, and his inability to walk or stand much.

I want to do what's right for my boy, and feel like at the moment maybe this wasn't the right choice.

 

Thank you for taking time to read my "little" story!

wow,, i didn't realize just HOW long this story was...... sorry!

 

 

 

 

[Burpdog]

Can you find a vet certified in both chiropractic and acupuncture?

 

Be very careful as rimadyl can cause the lethargy. Has he had blood work in the last few weeks?

 

edited to add: I've never had them worse. On occassion they will not show improvement, but not worse. Could be the trip? or where she needled?

Edited February 9, 2008 by Burpdog

[Guest vahoundlover]

Yikes! That sounds scary! Boss (13) gets acupuncture every 5/6 weeks....he always feels good right after! When we left after his treatment wednesday, he was dancing. When we started doing acupuncture it was because Boss had a bulged disc, he had no use of his backend, we saw immediate improvement after one session...I'm trying to remember...I think she told us it might take a day or two to see a difference but I don't remember anything being said about he may be worse. Diane (Burpdog) would be the one I'd ask...she's been great in helping us with Boss.

 

I'm sorry Rascal is going through this, sending prayers you find some answers soon.

 

 

[Guest sheila]

Then i wonder about the LS.. I printed Dr. Stack's article, gave it to the vet.. she said she would read it, and think about doing the shot if the acupuncture didn't improve his situation. She said she'd feel better if we did an MRI,,, i said,, but if the shot works,, then LS is the issue and we know it without doing the MRI,,, ect.. yadda, yadda, yadda,,,,

 

I don't have any experience with acupuncture so I can't answer to that. My vet DID do the Depo-Medrol shot for Kiowa. In fact he said that giving the shot was a good first step before doing any more extensive testing. After the shot Kiowa seemed to have a bit more strength in his back end. It was nothing dramatic but he seemed a bit more comfortable. Then again he wasn't having the level of discomfort that Rascal is.

Sorry but that is all I can offer. I'm sure others with more experience will chime in.

[Batmom]

I would not repeat a procedure that hurt my dog and did not help.

 

I would seek out another vet who is experienced with LS and depo-medrol.

 

Hope your pupper improves.

[silverfish]

Jim always felt VERY sprightly after his treatments. He wasn't a dog who pulled on the lead, but that first visit he hobbled in, obviously in pain, and when we came out I took him for a short walk to pee before we drove home and he pulled me along like a two year old!

 

I wouldn't take Rascal for any more treatments, acupuncture or chiropractic, until you have a better dx. Personally, after such a dramatic reaction and obvious worsening, I'd want him seen by a specialist. JMHO.

[Guest SusanP]

We tried acupuncture with Simon for arthritis. She stayed very relaxed during the treatment, but it seemed to have no effect on her whatsoever.

[3DogNite]

Thank you all!

I have spoken with several others who also agree to NOT go back to that Vet. I am planning however to speak with her and tell her about the reaction that Rascal had.

 

I also found out that she does NOT have the formal Chinese based acupuncture training that specializes with animals. She does have a schooling in acupuncture, just not the full on formal accreditation behind it.

 

Some good news,,,, Rascal is doing a very gentle little jog, like it may be easier than walking for him. And he seems to be moving easier, so am going to still watch him like a hawk and keep him very quiet.

 

I did find more of his pain issue. , I leaned over and wanted to stretch his back legs out,, if it is originally a muscle strain then stretching might feel good??!! He yelped as i brought the leg SLOWLY back, in a straight position, back behind him. So like he has a strain in the groin area? He likes to sit or lay down with his legs curled up, so the straight position and lengthening back is what is giving him problems.......I don't know if that makes sense, but I imagine when they race they go thru a lot of stretching, and what I did was such a small stretch that I imagine this could be part of his problem... could be much more as well.

 

ok, thanks again for your support!

time to take the other pups for a walk,, Rascal is staying home for now!

 

[Guest lizmego]

Definitely find someone who is accredited in acupuncture. We use Dr. Perkins here in the Kansas City area and I cannot tell you how happy we are with her. She is accredited in chiropracty, Chinese acupuncture and chinese medicine/herbal remedies.

 

Please review this website to find an accredited acupuncturist/chiropractor for your area. Link

 

Here are register chinese acupuncturist from the Chi Institute:

Katherine S. Cissell, VMD

Specialty: Equine

Logan, UT 84321, USA

Tele: (435)2130803

 

 

Kanda Hazelwood, DVM

Sandy, Ut 84092, USA

Tele: (801)523-1176

 

 

Kimberly Henneman, DVM

Park City, UT 84098, USA

Tele: (435)647-0807

Fax: (435)647-2985

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2008 by lizmego

[RobinM]

I have been taking Teddy for acupuncture for the last 5 weeks. I WAS told that they sometimes get worse before they get better. Teddy has shown better mobility in his neck, he is not holding his paws up aymore and his gait is a bit better. The first time we went she only used a few needles for a few minutes. Have you called this ver and let them know how your dog is?

 

I would take easy with the meds.

 

there is a holistic herbal called Trumeel. It is for humans but good for dogs too. It is supposed to be used sublingually, but that is near to impossible with the dogs. So, you put it in a little yogert or cottage cheese, peanute butter, something they have to lick, not swallow. It is an antiimflammatory.

 

You can find it cheap online. http://www.myvitanet.com/traum.html

 

Go with the tabs. 1 tab 2-3 times a day.

Edited February 10, 2008 by RobinM

[CaliforniaGreys]

I have been taking Teddy for acupuncture for the last 5 weeks. I WAS told that they sometimes get worse before they get better. Teddy has shown better mobility in his neck, he is not holding his paws up aymore and his gait is a bit better. The first time we went she only used a few needles for a few minutes. Have you called this ver and let them know how your dog is?

 

I would take easy with the meds.

 

there is a holistic herbal called Trumeel. It is for humans but good for dogs too. It is supposed to be used sublingually, but that is near to impossible with the dogs. So, you put it in a little yogert or cottage cheese, peanute butter, something they have to lick, not swallow. It is an antiimflammatory.

 

You can find it cheap online. http://www.myvitanet.com/traum.html

 

Go with the tabs. 1 tab 2-3 times a day.

Traumeel is really great stuff. I buy it in gel form and use it to masage the dogs. It contains arnica which is really great for pain. It has really helped my dogs with arthritis and my boy who had bone spurs.