Laundry List Of Medical And Behavioral Issues (sorry, It's Long&#3

[Guest HighMaintenance]

So, heard back last night from OSU - they think it's a neurological problem and asked for the records, history, and a video of Je t'aime's behaviors. So, getting all of that together. But, also getting a referral for an internist in my area that I found on the site that one of you gave me. My poor little boy threw up several times over the weekend, but we think we narrowed it down - when we gave him his medicine, tried to give it in peanut butter (natural, organic stuff) and he used to tollerate it, but didn't this weekend. So, I picked up some plain, organic yogurt and gave that to him last night and this morning as his treat. He's tollerating his new food, thankfully.

[Guest HighMaintenance]

Yipee! Got an appointment on Friday morning (2/15) with the internist. I'm going to inquire about a TBD panel, but if anyone else has any suggestions of what I should discuss, tests to ask for, etc...that would be so helpful. I just really want some answers for my poor suffering angel.

 

Thanks!

[Guest HighMaintenance]

So, went to the internist today. My boy hasn't thrown up since Monday, his appetite is good, his labs seem normal, so the internist thinks that it's related to the KBr. He said it can cause bleeding (any, even minor GI upset can cause bleeding) - which, my vet said it wouldn't cause bleeding, but I trust the internist opionion. He took an Xray of Je t'aime's intestinal area to make sure there was no metal (nail or something). He said that he doesn't even presribe KBr pills, he tells patients to disolve the capsule contents in a small amount of water (relative to the dosage of the pill) and either give it to him in an oral syringe, or pour it over his food (either way, should be given with food). If he doesn't throw up in the next week, we'll figure it was the meds. If he does, we came back and do an endoscopy. He still has his other issues (his odd behaviors, etc.), but I'm working with OSU for those. Starting to videotape his behaviors and have sent all of his labs/records to OSU...

[Guest trevdog]

Have they done an xray of his head yet? Not as good as an MRI, but could help rule out a tumor or something and less $$. Good that his throwing up has stopped/lessend......

Edited February 15, 2008 by trevdog

[Guest HighMaintenance]

Trev dog - no, no one suggested that. The vet told me the only test that can rule out a tumor is an MRI (that an xray won't show tumors (only broken bones, etc.). Was she incorrect? I would def. do that!

[Guest trevdog]

Well an MRI is more thorough, but a good xray machine can show tumors also. My Trevor had nosebleeds sometimes and we had him xrayed for tumors, luckily none spotted and it gave a very clear picture of his skull. We lost him a few years later to OS again detected by xray but it wasn't the broken rib that stood out so much as the mass growing in his lungs.

 

I've also seen things such as fluid build up and foreign objects that were ingested show up on xrays so I would think a tumor would be visible, unless it's in an internal organ.

 

I would ask about it, again quite a bit less expensive than an MRI. If something questionable is noted, then I would consider an MRI.

 

And Dr Couto is very helpful, be sure you get all the info you can and send it to him.

Edited February 15, 2008 by trevdog

[Tallgreydogmom]

My vet gives me a prescription for the Potassium Bromide powder and I mix the powder with the proper amount of distilled water. I take care of seizure greyhounds so I might have up to four at one time. I just put something like 6cc in their food of whatever dosage they are on.

 

Let me know if you are interested in going this way.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Escena

[LBass]

If dissolving the capsule is a problem, remind the vet that they can prescribe KBr as a liquid that is easy to measure out in a syringe and put on food.

[Guest EmilyAnne]

Weak back legs is a side effect of potassium bromide unfortunately. Henry started potassium bromide in October, and over time he has learned how to get around better with his wobbly back legs. His aren't all that bad though. Once in a while he falls. The kong is a lifesaver. Henry tends to be a pacer as well. I put canned pumpkin or banana or yam in the kong and freeze it. And when he gets into one of his pacing/barking sessions, the kong comes out.

 

There are a variety of things that may trigger seizures for different dogs. Ingredents I have heard people say they think caused seizures are:

 

~sage and rosemary

~dairy products

~grains

~preservative in joint supplements

~garlic

~preservatives often found in commercial dog food, you can find preservative free commercial dog food though

 

How credible this list is or not, I dont know, but I have started feeding Henry a diet free from all the above to see if it helps.

 

Henry has some minor incontinence, but as long as we watch him closely and let him out often, he is fine.

 

The way how you describe your dog's behavior, sounds like how Henry behaves in the first few days after a really bad grand mal seizure.

 

I hope sharing my experience of my hound on potassium bromide helps you get a better feel for how dogs respond to potassium bromide. The potassium bromide for Henry has given excellent seizure control. Last grand mal was Dec. 9th. I found the side effects of a grand mal to be stronger than the side effects of the potassium bromide. So I am a big fan of potassium bromide.

[Guest HighMaintenance]

Hi there. Thank you all for the info. To respond to a few of your questions:

x-ray of his head: I will certainly be looking into that, pronto. Again, I didn't even know that was an option, so that makes me feel so much better.

KBr: The internist on Friday suggested disolving the pills (2, 600 mg capsuls) into 1 tbl water and pouring that over his food. Started that Friday morning and so far, so good. He has gotten sick and it's SO much easier than trying to shove the pills down the poor guy's throat!

Dr. Couto has all of his records (blood work, etc.) and vet notes since his seizures started. I entered the lab values into Excel so that they could compare across in rows the repeated lab work (i.e., his platelet count values for the various times they've been drawn are all in one row so it's easier to compare). I also typed up a 3-page medical/behavoiral history of Je t'aime from since I've had him. I'm starting to videotape his behaviors as well and will be sending them a DVD soon.

Kong: I got a few of these and his tummy can only take yogurt - so I've been freezing these, but he's done w/ it in a few minutes and then starts pacing again. Then, we'll do some clicker training, then he's pacing again. Nothing really seems to break his cycle once it starts (almost always in the evening).

Food: thank you for the above list, we've changed his food to a grain-free diet in hopes that maybe the chemicals/preservatives are causing some issues.

 

Thank you all, so very much.

 

 

[Guest HighMaintenance]

Update - Je t'aime went last night for an acid bile test. It was suggested by Dr. Couto to check his liver function. He also had his KBr levels checked. I get the results for the acid bile test in about 1 - 1 1/2 weeks.

[NeylasMom]

I haven't checked back since I originally responded. No new suggestions from me, I just wanted to applaud you for everything you are doing for your dog. You are obviously very dedicated to him and doing everything you can to figure this out. I hope between the internist and Dr. Couto you get some answers. At the very least, it sounds like you are now working with people who you can trust, which will help. Please continue to keep us posted. I'm hoping you get answers soon.

[Guest HighMaintenance]

Thank you so much, NeylasMom! That's all I can do - rule everything under the sun out before I just settle on "epilepsy". It's something that I take very seriously, as it seems like everyone else on GT does, the responsibility of caring for an animal. Since he can't talk to me (damn it! ), I have to do all that I can for him. Next is the x-ray and/or MRI of his brain. That will be the definitive answer. Thanks your checking in!

[NeylasMom]

One question about the MRI. If they do it and do find a tumor, is there anything that can be done for him?

[LuvAPuppy]

Update - Je t'aime went last night for an acid bile test. It was suggested by Dr. Couto to check his liver function. He also had his KBr levels checked. I get the results for the acid bile test in about 1 - 1 1/2 weeks.

 

bile acids shouldn't take that long, we used to turn them around overnight! did you mean 1-2 days? If you really meant weeks, call tomorrow and find out where they send the sample, I can't imagine biles taking that long!

 

[Guest HighMaintenance]

Neylas Mom - well, they haven't really said anything about that (what would happen if a tumor was found). From everything that I've read, I think it depends on the location of the tumor, size, etc. (just like in a person if a tumor is operable or not). Or, if chemo is a possibility?

 

I feel as long the vet I'm going to - they are nice and pleasant, etc. - but, I feel like they look at me like I'm crazy to be "putting my dog through all of this" (meaning, test after test, appointment after appointment). Maybe I'm just overly-sensative, but I feel like a number at this large vet office. I think I need to go somewhere else. I would like to find a small practice where I (or, more importantly, my grey) don't feel like a number. Where the vet is willing to do research, make suggestions, etc. This vet hasn't done anything wrong or treated me or Je t'aime in any negative way, it's just the feeling I get.

 

And, it's just one thing after another. Je t'aime is not constantly peeing in the house (3-5 times a day). No matter what we do, he's now doing it while we're home with him!

 

LuvAPuppy - no, they told me 1 to 1 1/2 weeks. I thought that was crazy, but they send it out to a lab, so that really ticks me off!

 

Thanks for listening!

[LuvAPuppy]

LuvAPuppy - no, they told me 1 to 1 1/2 weeks. I thought that was crazy, but they send it out to a lab, so that really ticks me off!

 

Thanks for listening!

 

I've missed where you live, but if you're in the States I can't imagine why it would take that long. I worked for a vet lab indigenous to Indiana that was later purchased by VCA/Antech. Even when we were IVDL we had overnight turn abounds on our biles. maybe if you're off the mainland or overseas I can see it, or if your vet mails to IDEXX or one of the vet colleges...

Personally, I'd call them and ask why so long. =)

[Guest HighMaintenance]

I live in Buffalo, NY. Antech Diagnostics is who does the labs. **?!?!?! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest HighMaintenance]

UGH - I just called the vet. The tests (KBr serum level test and acid bile tests) were done Wednesday night, 2/20, they send them to Antech Diagnositics which is located in Southhaven, MS). I'm so confused on why it takes so darn long for the results to come back! UGH! "It's out of our hands, it's with the lab and our hands are tied. It's how long the lab takes to process the test and we can't do anything until we get the results back from the lab." Are they blowing smoke up my butt or is this how it is. I think if a lab takes that long to process something - FIND A NEW LAB TO CONTRACT WITH!!!!! Man, I'm all fired up now!

[LBass]

One possible option for labs is to use Hemopet. I live in South Carolina. My vet draws and preps the blood for whatever tests we are ordering. There is a nominal fee for that. I fill out forms and mail the serum and a check to Hemopet in California. They send out to Antech too, if I understand correctly, but I've always had the results faxed to the my vet within 3-4 days (blood draw and mail Monday and get results Thursday or Friday). Hemopet also apparently has a non-profit or discount deal with Antech because the labs are always significantly less expensive through Hemopet than if my vet sends them to the local Antech.

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...nstructions.htm Link to info and available tests.

[Guest HighMaintenance]

LBass - THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's so amazing how wonderful and helpful everyone is on GT. Thanks, thanks, thanks! I'll go on the site (I've been on the canine epilepsy site numerous times, but didn't know about the Hemopet thing...

 

That's where I found out about urine acid bile testing and when I asked my vet if they do that. They asked me where I got that info, they've never heard of urine acid bile testing, etc. Made me feel like I had a third head (when I asked).

[LBass]

I glad to share anything that will make it easier for us to take good care of our hounds!

 

I too heard about urine bile acids testing on the canine-epilepsy.com web site. I asked my vet about it and, bless him, he said he hadn't heard of that test and asked if I had any information on it I could share with him. I faxed him the info, he reviewed it, and called me back later that day to discuss whether we wanted to use that test for Piper rather than the serum bile acids we'd been doing. Good vets are a treasure. You don't have 3 heads, you are just a good grey Mom!

[Guest HighMaintenance]

Your vet sounds wonderful. When I told my vet that I'd give them the info, they really didn't seem like they wanted it. All signs point to "find a new vet". My behaviorist (for Je t'aime!) gave me some suggestions of vets to get a second opinion on him anyway, so I think I'll do some research on those groups.

 

Thanks again

[LuvAPuppy]

UGH - I just called the vet. The tests (KBr serum level test and acid bile tests) were done Wednesday night, 2/20, they send them to Antech Diagnositics which is located in Southhaven, MS). I'm so confused on why it takes so darn long for the results to come back! UGH! "It's out of our hands, it's with the lab and our hands are tied. It's how long the lab takes to process the test and we can't do anything until we get the results back from the lab." Are they blowing smoke up my butt or is this how it is. I think if a lab takes that long to process something - FIND A NEW LAB TO CONTRACT WITH!!!!! Man, I'm all fired up now!

 

I'm gonna fire you up even more Seriously though, I don't want to send you off to riot in your vet's office or cause a bad business between them and the lab, but something seems odd to me. I've been out of Antech for almost five years but I have every reason to believe the web page is accurate. these are the East Coast labs:

New York

1111 Marcus Avenue, Suite M28

Lake Success, NY 11042

 

 

Atlanta

4895 S. Atlanta, Suite A

Smyrna, GA 30080

 

Boston

214 N. Main Street, Suite 90

Natick, MA 01760

 

 

Charlotte

2235 Township Road

Charlotte,NC 28273

Maryland

1390 East Gude Street

Rockville, MD 20850

 

Memphis - Test Express

2433 Globe Cove

Southaven, MS 38671

 

North Carolina

305 E. Ashville Avenue

Cary, NC 27511

 

Orlando

9905 South US HWY 17-92

Maitland,FL 32751

 

Philadelphia

2089 E.High Street

Pottstown, PA 19464

 

Sunrise

10222 N.W. 47th Street

Sunrise, FL 33351

 

Tampa

1501 A Belcher Road

South Largo, FL 33771

 

IVDL owned the Tampa lab, they bought it from us. I have every reason to believe, based on five years ago, that nearly every one of those facilities have the capability of running biles. We didn't in Ft Wayne, but we couriered our samples to Indy TWICE DAILY and they ran it there. Now it goes to Chicago, by courier TWICE DAILY. We ran chems/hematopathology/serologies in town with two to four hour turn around. I sure wish I still had some inside contacts but I don't. I don't even have Zoasis access to poach results anymore.

 

[Guest HighMaintenance]

WOW! Thank you for posting this list- I really appreciate it!Then why do they send the labs to MS (the Southaven one is the one that the lab paperwork is from) when there are others closer?? They must have a contract or something? Maybe their policies for running tests are longer? Well, I'm going to do some research today (on a new vet in my area). And, when I move to a new vet, I'd like to discuss with them the Hemopet option for labwork.

 

Ho hum...