Neurological And Autoimmune Disorders And Thyroid Problems

[galgrey]

I've been especially missing my boy, Keno, recently. He left us in January and the impact of his loss still comes in waves. Anyway, he had LP (laryngeal paralysis), LS (lumbosacral stenosis), and other neurological symptoms that appeared to be autoimmune in origin. Being an avid internet researcher, I compiled lots of info on his variety of symptoms and passed these along to my vet as we tried to piece together what was going on with him in the beginning. I came across this folder in my favorites today and I thought posting this might help someone who's struggling with their dog's health issues.

 

It's not always the case, but indicated in some of these problems (and in some dogs) is hypothyroidism. Because Keno didn't seem to exhibit any of the "classic symptoms" of hypothyroidism, my vet didn't think adding a complete thyroid panel to our long list of tests was necessary, but did it at my request and sent it to Michigan. He was very surprised when Keno's lab results showed he was extremely hypothyroid (very low thyroid function even for a greyhound). And all without many of the classic symptoms -- hair loss, weigh gain, cold intolerance, etc. We started him on medication right away, but sadly, I had to help him to the bridge only a fews weeks later.

 

Even if your hound isn't showing the classic low thyroid symptoms, hypothyroidism or autoimmune thyroid disease could be contributing to his/her neurological and/or autoimmunity problems. Not all vets agree that there is a relationship, but many do. Dr. Jean Dodds is one of them. She believes animals with autoimmune thyroid disease have generalized metabolic imbalance and often have associated immunological/neurological dysfunction.

 

I'm not sure it would have made a difference for my beloved Keno, but I will always wonder if I had insisted on a thyroid panel earlier (and his thyroid function was corrected) would he have gone into such rapid decline with multiple neurological (polyneuropathy) and autoimmune problems.

 

Just something to think about, research, talk to your vet about if your dog is having some of these problems.

 

 

 

 

[Aerosmom]

Is there any way to share some of these links? I'd love to read them, since we're having neurological/autoimmune issues with Cricket. Thanks for thinking of her and the other pups who are experiencing trouble.

[DaisyDoodle]

That's weird, I never thought about there being a connection. CoCo had lymphoma, degenerative myelopathy AND hypothyroid the last couple of years of her life. I never think to mention the thyroid problem to people; I'd actually almost forgotten about it until you just mentioned it.

[Batmom]

Keep in mind that his thyroid may also have tested low because he was sick rather than the other way 'round. It is certainly something that can affect lots of body functions, tho.

 

Hugs.

[galgrey]

Is there any way to share some of these links? I'd love to read them, since we're having neurological/autoimmune issues with Cricket. Thanks for thinking of her and the other pups who are experiencing trouble.

 

 

Here's one by Dr. Dodd: LINK TO ARTICLE.

 

I'm sending Cricket white light and healing thoughts. I know how frustrating it is to watch helplessly as they begin to have multiple system problems and for no apparent reason.

Edited October 24, 2007 by galgrey

[galgrey]

Keep in mind that his thyroid may also have tested low because he was sick rather than the other way 'round. It is certainly something that can affect lots of body functions, tho.

 

Hugs.

 

That is certainly a possibility and Dr. Watkins and I discussed it. He tended to agree with you, however, another vet I consulted felt there was a direct relationship between his low thyroid function and neurological/immune system decline.

 

Because I have thyroid issues myself and have had lots of tests with lots of specialists, I find there is some major disagreement among human doctors about the thyroid and it's relationship to multiple body systems. Seems every other one I've seen has assured me that the previous specialist was wrong. It guess vets are no different.

 

For myself, I will always wonder about Keno and will certainly want to rule it out in the future if any of my dogs have similar problems.

 

edited because I can't type.

Edited October 24, 2007 by galgrey

[feemandvm]

Keep in mind that his thyroid may also have tested low because he was sick rather than the other way 'round. It is certainly something that can affect lots of body functions, tho.

 

Hugs.

We know that hypothyroidism can be a contributing factor to LP... but if you did a panel and the TSH was normal... the low T4 (even for a Greyhound) was likely "euthyroid sick". Any significant illness can suppress thyroid hormone w/o a dog truly being "hypothyroid". If the TSH was high and the T4 was low... then he was definitely hypothyroid but even starting supplementation earlier might not have made a difference.

 

 

 

[Guest SusanP]

This makes me think of the way we lost our old girl Simon in July. Her thyroid went down, and she had tremors, but after only a week on thyroid meds, she lost use of her legs. I, too, have wished we'd seen this coming earlier.

 

At the time we put her on thyroid meds, our vet warned me that low thyroid can be caused by neurological problems. I didn't realize it could go the other way, though--low thyroid causing or exacerbating neurological problems. The connections must be complicated and varied...

 

 

[Guest KennelMom]

Our vet did make sure we sent bloodwork to Michigan State for thyroid testing (no obvious symptoms of low thyroid, such as hair loss). Champ came back on the lower end of normal, so I don't believe that has contributed to his LP. However, he does have an autoimmune condition that we've always attributed to tick disease...No LS...just normal "old dog" type stiffness from time to time and a wee bit of sensitivity in the LS region.

Edited October 24, 2007 by KennelMom

[galgrey]

We know that hypothyroidism can be a contributing factor to LP... but if you did a panel and the TSH was normal... the low T4 (even for a Greyhound) was likely "euthyroid sick". Any significant illness can suppress thyroid hormone w/o a dog truly being "hypothyroid". If the TSH was high and the T4 was low... then he was definitely hypothyroid but even starting supplementation earlier might not have made a difference.

 

Is "euthyroid sick" the same as autoimmune thyroiditis or lymphocytic thyroiditis?

Edited October 24, 2007 by galgrey

[Guest Greensleeves]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that there's a difference between autoimmune thyroid disease and true chronic hypothyroidsim. I would think one could certainly affect/participate in immune system problems, but the other...?

[Batmom]

Is "euthyroid sick" the same as autoimmune thyroiditis or lymphocytic thyroiditis?

 

No. Autoimmune thyroiditis and lymphocytic thyroiditis are specific thyroid disorders. "euthyroid sick" is when the dog has an infection or some other disease or stressor and the T4 reading is low; there is nothing wrong with the thyroid in this case, and a full thyroid panel will generally show that.

[galgrey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that there's a difference between autoimmune thyroid disease and true chronic hypothyroidsim. I would think one could certainly affect/participate in immune system problems, but the other...?

 

Yes, there is a difference. Dr. Dodd and some other vets believes that as much as 80% of hypothyroidism in dogs results from autoimmune (lymphocytic) thyroiditis. If I understand it correctly, a complete thyroid autoantibody panel is necessary to test for thyroiditis.

 

In people there's a condition called Hashimoto's disease. In Hashimoto's, antibodies react against proteins in the thyroid gland, causing gradual destruction of the gland itself, making the gland unable to produce the thyroid hormones. So the disease itself causes the hypothyroidism. I know about this from my own thyroid issues and am just assuming here that it works basically the same way in dogs. Just like a person can be hypothyroid without having Hashimoto's disease, dogs can by hypothyroid without having autoimmune thyroiditis.

 

 

 

 

Is "euthyroid sick" the same as autoimmune thyroiditis or lymphocytic thyroiditis?

 

No. Autoimmune thyroiditis and lymphocytic thyroiditis are specific thyroid disorders. "euthyroid sick" is when the dog has an infection or some other disease or stressor and the T4 reading is low; there is nothing wrong with the thyroid in this case, and a full thyroid panel will generally show that.

 

Ok, that makes sense now.

[galgrey]

We know that hypothyroidism can be a contributing factor to LP... but if you did a panel and the TSH was normal... the low T4 (even for a Greyhound) was likely "euthyroid sick". Any significant illness can suppress thyroid hormone w/o a dog truly being "hypothyroid". If the TSH was high and the T4 was low... then he was definitely hypothyroid but even starting supplementation earlier might not have made a difference.

 

His THS was 10 and his T4 was 11. I still worry that I didn't do everything I could have for him

 

[feemandvm]

We know that hypothyroidism can be a contributing factor to LP... but if you did a panel and the TSH was normal... the low T4 (even for a Greyhound) was likely "euthyroid sick". Any significant illness can suppress thyroid hormone w/o a dog truly being "hypothyroid". If the TSH was high and the T4 was low... then he was definitely hypothyroid but even starting supplementation earlier might not have made a difference.

 

His THS was 10 and his T4 was 11. I still worry that I didn't do everything I could have for him

His TSH was normal... it is unlikely he was hypothyroid. There are a LOT of Greyhounds on thyroid supplementation that don't need to be. If you would have supplemented him and he would have gone down hill anyway... you could argue that the unnecessary supplementation could have contributed to a focal stroke or hypertension that made him worse more quickly.

 

 

[galgrey]

Thank you, Dr. Feeman.