Lumbosacral Stenosis Survey

[Guest Spiff]

Dr. Stack's LS info/treatment article

 

Spiff (12 years old) saw the vet yesterday to be evaluated for lumbosacral stenosis. He was showing a number of the signs - shuffling, stumbling, knuckling over with one foot, weak/wobbly rear end, fecal incontinence, etc. The vet tested his balance, reaction to having his feet turned upside down and ability to tolerate his tail being lifted, as well as the test described in Dr. Stack's article. The vet thought it was probably LS, but wanted to do some x-rays to confirm this. It turns out that Spiff doesn't have classic LS, but has the same symptoms due to an old injury to his spine in the same area where LS occurs. The vet decided that we should try depo-medrol injections anyway, since the goal is to decrease the pressure on the nerves regardless of the origin of the damage, LS or injury. It will be a couple of days before we really know if Spiff's mobility is improved and if the injections will help in his case...

 

...but I was wondering what other people's experiences are? Of course, there aren't enough poll options for all the questions that I've had!! So here are some of my other questions:

 

--Did you see any decrease in the effectiveness of the treatments? Did each successive injection work less well?

 

--Do you let your greys with LS run? (I've been concerned that Spiff would further injure himself with his wobbly-ness causing out of control high-speed collisions.)

 

--If your greyhound passed due to LS, how long were you able to maintain them until then?

 

Thanks to everyone who I've already PMed with!!

[Guest KennelMom]

Caesar is on his third D-M injection (got it yesterday, actually)...no decrease in the effectiveness so far. He goes about 2 months between.

 

When Caesar's shot is wearing off, he won't run. After the shot he will work back up to running and we let him self-regulate that. At 12, he's not much of a power runner anymore.

[tamborine]

Tammy had on & off problems with her back since I got her in 1998 at age 6, but was doing fine on glucosamine. November/December of 2005 it really started to flare up. Tried Adequan injections, and Dr. Stack's depomedrol protocol to no avail. Had to put her on morphine and tramadol for the pain; zonked her out but didn't seem to help the pain much. I let her go to the bridge last February - she was 2 months shy of 14 years old. If she'd been a few years younger, I think I would've tried decompression surgery, but it was out of the question because of her age.

[Hubcitypam]

Rex was very young (4.5) when diagnosed with LS by Dr. Herron. The shots really helped him. He went from unable to get off the couch to bounding up the steps and you could see when they were wearing off. He went to the bridge at almost 7 after a disc between his shoulders ruptured into his spine and was inoperable.

[Guest Spiff]

I think the depo injection is working for Spiff!! He's stopped shuffling and is less wobbly!

[Guest brbr]

Mickey had her 2nd shot in Jan., six months from the first. She also sees an animal chiropractor as needed and so far, acts just fine, have noticed that when she runs, her rear seems to head to the side, but other than that

she runs and jumps and even though she is very lady like, she has her moments when she is a goofy grey. She is six.

[2fawnhounds]

We have a grey with LSS who will be 15 in June. He has been living comfortably with LSS for 3 years now. His health is good other than the LSS. His has received Depo Medrol when needed but takes oral prednisone as well. Until the last few months he has been able to walk easily on level surfaces and even come up the three steps to our house. Old age is beginning to really take a toll on him and we now have to lift him up the front stairs and into the house. His appetite has never wavered nor his need to be in the same room with us. Unfortunately he is becoming more and more feeble everyday but I suspect his age has a lot to do with this. We are home during the day and can take him out every few hours so he can do his "business". It is very much like looking after a geriatric human and is very time consuming. But he is our first grey, we love him so much, and as long as he is happy and pain free we will continue to schedule around his needs. We have a wonderful grey savy vet and I am sure that has helped him live pain free this long. Feel free to PM if you would like to talk.

[Guest Greensleeves]

I'm so curious to read everyone's responses. Whistler is 12 and has had LS for about a year now (it took about 7-8 months of tests and treatments to get a confirmed diagnosis). He had his first Depo treatment at the end of September.

 

Whistler had his second Depo treatment about a month ago, and it was much less effective than the first (although between shots he had developed fecal incontinence, and that has disappeared completely for now).

 

The thing is, although he's very weak and wobbly, he *doesn't* seem to be in any pain. His appetite is the best it's ever been (he's also on oral pred, but mainly for an unrelated auto-immune condition), he plays with stuffies, pays inordinate attention to Flint's hoo-hoo , is bossy and rude to DH when he wants something, loves walks and would go much further than we allow anymore, and sleeps on the bed with me most mornings when I write. He actually gets weaker and shakier the more excited he gets (last night we had angel food cake, and I thought he'd collapse right in the middle of the kitchen, he was so excited).

 

It absolutely floors me to think we might lose him to this. Yes, he's very weak... but he's happy. He doesn't seem to be in pain. I feel like he has a better quality of life now, than he did for a while there.

 

I'm just so confused about the prognosis. The vets here aren't terribly familiar with the condition, so I feel like I'm fumbling in the dark when it comes to his treatment and prognosis.

[Burpdog]

My vets won't do the shot so it's a good thing I don't like it either

 

I've used the same supplements on all my guys and as my vet says, all old dogs have LS to some degree. They get supplements, chiropractic and sometimes acupuncture and chinese herbs. Several have also received what is considered a low dose of oral pred daily.

[Guest KennelMom]

I think the depo injection is working for Spiff!! He's stopped shuffling and is less wobbly!

 

That's great news!! :yay

[Hubcitypam]

Burpdog, I have asked before but don't remember exactly why your vets refuse to do the shot. What are their reasons? There were way fewer side effects for us with the shot that oral steroids. I keep wondering why your vets are so opposed to it. Thanks in advance for jogging my fuzzy memory.

[Guest Spiff]

One of the other possible treatments that the vet mentioned for Spiff before he saw the x-ray was Cartrophen-Vet (pentosan polysulphate). It's mainly used for osteoarthritis, but I thought I'd mention it since our vet really likes the product. Here's some information in English about it: Cartrophen Info. I don't know about availability in the US, but it'd be worth asking your vet. Cartrophen is used to improve and maintain joint health, much the same way as glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM supplements, but it is a concentrated injectable that can have more obvious effects. Some things I read say that it's effects are similar to Adequan.

 

Thanks everyone for sharing their stories!

[Madeara]

Did everyones dog show signs of pain and then was given the Depo shots? Anyone give the depo shots for a knuckling over dog or just wobbly in the hind end without any signs of pain from the LS?

[ZoomDoggy]

I've only had Chancy since she was ten, and by the time I got her, she already had mild symptoms of LS (shuffling back feet primarily). Occasionally she has "flare ups" usually after overexerting herself. The flare ups consist of periods where the act of lying down and standing up cause her to yelp in pain. This gradually dissipates in a day or two with use of pain meds and acupuncture. I tried six months of chiro, but it didn't seem to do anything for Chancy. I also tried a series of acupuncture treatments which did seem to help somewhat. Currently we are on supplements only: glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, and fish oil, among other things. I will certainly do the acupuncture again if/when she has another flare up, but mostly she seems to get along very well. My vet said I should limit her running, but walking is very good for her. If Chancy seems to significantly decline, and acupuncture doesn't do the job, I will try the depo medrol shot. I've heard enough positive results from others that I'd give it a try, but only as a last resort. My vet is in agreement about this.

[Guest Spiff]

Did everyones dog show signs of pain and then was given the Depo shots? Anyone give the depo shots for a knuckling over dog or just wobbly in the hind end without any signs of pain from the LS?

With Spiff, he doesn't seem to have any pain. His LS seems to result from an old injury to the spine in the LS area (as seen in an xray) - the vet thinks he probably had some pain at the time of the initial injury, but not now.

 

So, yes, we gave Spiff the depo-medrol shots because I was concerned about his mobilty - he was very wobbly when getting out of bed and if he attempted to run around in the yard. I was concerned that he would injure himself because of his rear end being out of control. He started knuckling over and that was the last straw - I took him to the vet the next week.

 

The vet suggested that we try depo-medrol after doing some mobility tests (putting his rear feet into the knuckled over position and seeing how fast he would correct them, if he tolerated having his tail raised, and the test described in Dr. Stacks info (link in the OP)). Dr. Stack points out that the worst thing that can happen with the depo-medrol shot is that it won't have any effect.

 

(The only side effects are possibly some increased appetite and thirst, since depo-medrol is a corticosteroid - we have seen this with Spiff, but it's not a bad thing if he would eat a little more!)

 

So far, two weeks on, Spiff's mobility has returned to what it was one or two years ago -- he's not dangerously out of control and he can have fun running again.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Spiff

[Madeara]

[/so far, two weeks on, Spiff's mobility has returned to what it was one or two years ago -- he's not dangerously out of control and he can have fun running again.

 

quote]

 

 

Darius does not seem in pain. I can lift his tail, he can correct his knuckling (unless he is standing in the kitchen begging and I guess he forgets) But he is wobbly in the back and I am sure it will worsen with time. He does shuffle when trotting but can do a good run. He is 14 and I would like to do what I can. I wonder if it is an old injury as well?

 

How much is a depo shot? Does it hurt when giving that shot?

Edited February 26, 2007 by Madeara

[Guest crazy4greys]

My boy Phoenix was diagnosed with LS in Spring of 2005. He was knuckling over and unstable with his rear legs. I took him for chiropractic care and started the Adequine injections. He improved greatly with all the treatments. He unfortunately passed away August 22, 2005 due to his liver and possibly combined with the LS. He was also on prednisone and for 1 day Tramadol. I took him off the Tramadol after he showed signs of lethargy and he seemed like he was stoned. He had a bad reaction to it.

[Hubcitypam]

My vet charged $25 plus the office call if we weren't already there. I don't think they ever hurt Rex at all. They go on either side of the spine

[Madeara]

I will email my Vet and ask his opinion on trying this with Darius, could be a great Birthday present for him

[Guest greytfulhounds]

My Joanie, 12 years old, got her first shot last Friday. I can't say that I have seen dramatic results but I have seen some. She seems to be able to stand for a longer period of time, her back seems straighter and she is not stumbling as much as she had before. I also have her on Springtime supplements.......Joint Health & Fresh Factors. Prior to the shot I had taken her for several sessions of acupuncture but did not see much in the way of results.

 

Good luck with your pup!

[Guest Spiff]

I'm glad to hear that Joanie has shown some improvement!!

 

Seems like it's about time for Spiff to get a second set of shots -- he's starting to get wobblier again! So, that means for Spiff, the shots seem to have worked for about 4.5 months.