a_daerr

Welcome to the cult!

I love green bag. Can't say enough good things about it! My dogs get the large breed formula from Sam's, and the kibble pieces are much larger. I know that doesn't work for every dog, but I prefer it. My two actually crunch and chew the larger chunks instead of just inhaling them.

Denise, you're a great doggie mom. You did everything right. Having an epi-dog is nerve-wracking, but you'll learn to roll with it. She's in good hands with you.

1. Zonisamide is exactly what Henry takes. 200mg twice a day. I would venture to guess our experience is rare (or maybe we got lucky and are just having a really long honeymoon period), but he has been seizure-free for a year. He does very well on it. Every six months we go for follow-up bloodwork, and there have been no adverse effects. I can't say he had any side effects, except that his personality changed a lot after starting the meds. He started becoming less nervous and more energetic. We get it from Sam's Club, and it's about $50 for a 90-day supply (that comes out to about $17 a month). If you go through a regular pharmacy, you're looking at about $100 a month. If you're still responsible for 10% of cost after Trupanion pays their share, definitely go through Sam's or Costco. 2. We never did an MRI or spinal tap because it was very expensive and did not seem necessary. His first seizure happened on his third birthday, which is right around the age where large breed epi-dogs start showing symptoms. There was nothing abnormal in his bloodwork or behavior. For us, all signs strongly pointed to epilepsy. My vet at the time also explained to me if there was a brain tumor or encephalitis, there would most likely be other symptoms (i.e. a tumor pressing against part of the brain would likely cause other neurological problems and gait issues). All in all, it wasn't really worth it, medically or financially. 3. Henry's eyes don't dart around. When he's having a partial (and during the tonic phase), his eyes get wide as saucers and the pupils are fixed and dilated. If the seizure progresses into a grand mal, he has rapid eye movement where they open and shut a lot. I could be wrong, but I think eyes darting from side to side is more indicative of a vestibular disease than a seizure. Probably not the case with your dog, as she goes back to normal once the seizure is over. As for giving the dog space during seizures, I would just make sure your hands are nowhere near her mouth. Lots of owners get bitten because they stick their hands in the dog's mouth during the seizure. It seems like a common sense thing NOT to do. However, a million years ago, it was recommended that epileptic humans be given a bite block to keep them from "swallowing their tongue." People assume the same applies with dogs. It doesn't (and actually it doesn't even apply to people anymore, as science has proven it's impossible for someone to swallow their own tongue). When Henry is seizing, I usually help him onto his side, speak softly to him, and just let him go. If I'm extra prepared, I'll give him a few drops of Bach's Rescue Remedy after it's over. Some people on this board have had success putting an ice pack on the dog's back, applying occular pressure, and/or giving ice cream afterwards.

I'm so very sorry, Petra.

Welcome to GT! Roobie looks like a hoot.

I was shocked to find out that one of my indoor cats had a flea allergy. It was only a couple of fleas (I think from my house plants), but it wreaked havoc on her. Even though all of my cats were indoors at the time, they all had to get Frontline. Anyway, if it's not fleas, it definitely sounds like an allergy or skin infection. I'd take her to the vet and get an exam and skin scraping.

There is a little bit of damage done to the brain every time the dog has a seizure. Also, because those neuro pathways are being used on a semi-frequently basis, it's likely that the number of seizures will continue to increase (think of walking through a forest- the first time is a lot of work, but each time after gets easier once you've made a path). Hopefully the neurologist will give you some insight on meds, but it sounds like your girl should be medicated now. With Henry, it was a little different. He would have a seizure, then go months upon months without having any. By the time the next one came on, I'd almost forget he was an epi-dog. If your neurologist recommends Pb, I strongly suggest a liver support supplement like Denamarin. It's expensive, but worth it. If you go with Keppra or Zoni, do yourself a favor and get your scripts filled at a price club like Sam's Club or Costco. It really is significantly cheaper. The others are Potassium and Sodium Bromide, which I know have a lot of side effects dealing with peeing, appetite, and ataxia, but those are also other options.

I agree, the seizure wasn't *that* bad. She was standing for most of it, which indicates a focal (partial) seizure that's only affecting one section of the brain. But the part that is concerning for me is that the seizure activity continued on for a pretty long time. Over two minutes. At this point, I wouldn't take her to the e-vet unless she starts clustering. But she's had a lot of these in a short amount of time, so I'd medicate ASAP. Definitely get some rectal Valium on hand for situations like this.

Truman hit his last fear stage right around 2-years-old. At that point, he was really overcompensating for everything. Being macho, getting snarky all the time. He's 26 months now, and he's slowing down and mostly coming out of that. We amped up his training and made sure he was enrolled in classes consistently, which seemed to help.

After you've got heel down, you can move onto these two: "Hurry hurry hurry!" and "Eaaaaaasy." I use these, literally, all the time. When you're walking with your dog in the heel position, tell him "hurry, hurry, hurry!" and pick up your pace. For "easy," pretend like you're in slow motion. Always treat and reward the dog for being in heel position. You can mix it up, change directions, speed up, slow down, whatever. The dog will learn to stick by you, no matter how fast or slow you're moving. If Truman sees a squirrel or some other distraction on walks, I can usually keep him below threshold by doing, "Hurry, hurry, hurry!" and speed-walking with him in the opposite direction. I also do this one if we're crossing a street, and I don't want him lollygagging. If he's trying to pull toward a stranger or another dog, I can say, "Eaaaaaasy" and he (usually) understands that he needs to slow down. I like this way because it keeps the dog engaged, and it's more fun than just saying, "NO!" constantly. Truman thinks he's playing a game of Simon Says.

Did she look alert? Responsive to her name? Or was she spaced out, unfixed gaze?

Was the shaking affecting her entire body, or only one part? Sounds like a partial seizure to me. Henry gets those from time to time. He'll start spacing out, then one part of his body seizes (usually his back legs). He remains standing for the whole thing, and it lasts anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

I can only offer my personal experience here, but Henry often has gas after a seizure. He almost always pees. The part of the brain responsible for controlling bowel/bladder muscles can be affected by seizures, which is why it's common for dogs to have accidents during the post-ictal phase. This timeframe can be anywhere from several minutes to several hours. Our vet also explained (and I had no idea) that having a seizure is highly exhausting. This is why many dogs pant afterwards. Thyme was probably feeling like she just ran a marathon. That, combined with being disoriented and confused would explain why she had an accident in the house. As for the diarrhea, my guess is that it was either a coincidence, or it was brought on by the stress of the seizure. On the food front, there are a lot of conflicted opinions on whether or not diet can make a difference. There's not enough research out there to say definitively that kibble is worse than homecooked or raw diets. I can tell you that Henry had seizures no matter what food he was on, and we tried many over the years. I currently feed IAMS green bag, which, like Purina can be described as a "lower" quality kibble. However, he is healthy in every other way and has normal weight, teeth, bloodwork, etc. I don't feel guilty about feeding IAMS. I'm inclined to believe that epilepsy is more related to genetics than anything else. There are some supplements that are said to beneficial for brain support (specifically, those with L-taurine and L-tyrosine). They aren't substitutes for actual seizure meds, though. I used to give Henry a supplement called Cholodin and another by NutriVet called Healthy Brain. Although both of these are highly rated, I ended up discontinuing them after a few months. Henry's seizures were no better or worse on supplements. Whether or not you want to keep your dogs separated is a personal decision. There is a theory that the likelihood of an attack is higher when you have a pack of three or more. This is because the dogs are attempting to preserve the safety and resources of the "pack." With that being said, my Henry had a seizure in a public dog park with at least five other dogs present, and none of them bothered him. So there aren't really any hard and fast rules. Whether or not the other dogs will attack really depends on their individual personalities and temperaments. I don't muzzle or crate my dogs because they are a bonded pair. Truman has never shown any aggression toward Henry during seizures. In fact, he seems to know that something is wrong and takes a protective stance. He will lay near Henry and wait until he's done seizing. Once, I saw him try to lick Henry's face. It's possible that that behavior could change someday, and I understand I am taking a risk. But at the end of the day, that's the decision I made, and I'm okay with it. You'll have to decide on whatever makes you most comfortable. Other than using a webcam and monitoring the footage, there aren't many ways to tell whether or not she's having seizures in your absence. If you come home to an accident, you may be able to reasonably assume she had one. Or, if she's acting strangely (panting, disoriented, unfixed gaze, extra sleepy), that may also be an indicator. When we decided to put Henry on meds, he was averaging seizures at least once a month, and these were just the ones we actually witnessed firsthand. I figured he was probably having more while we were at work, but we just weren't there to see them. Hopefully this helps you.

Wow, I could've written this post about Truman. He is a major drama queen about his space. He likes to cuddle with Henry and the cat sometimes, but it has to be on HIS terms. Strangely enough, he has absolutely no space issues with people. In fact, with people, it's like he has zero concept of personal space. He wants to be ON TOP of us all the time. I mainly see the snarkiness when he's found a really good spot (like our bed or the couch), and he decides that he doesn't want to share with Henry. If he sees Henry walking toward him, he'll pitch a fit. It's a big production too- growling and teeth. I've tried correcting him. I've tried doing focus exercises with him. I've tried removing him from the furniture immediately afterwards. Nothing has really seemed to work. Part of me thinks this is an adolescent phase, because he's still young and testing his boundaries. I'm grateful because Henry completely ignores the growling, so I'm not worried about a fight. It's just really annoying. I'm curious to see what other people say, especially those who've dealt with puppies.

It's very common for seizure dogs to void their bladder/bowels or throw up after a seizure. Henry always peed during the post-ictal phase. I'd probably get her to the neurologist soon, since she may be having seizures when you aren't home. Did they run a full thyroid panel on her?

Mine love Merrick knee bones. I get the huge 30 count box on Amazon. We also give rawhide rolls, which they tolerate and seem to enjoy.

Unfortunately, epi-dogs are pretty common. And epilepsy is very frustrating for owners because it has such a wide spectrum but very few definitive answers. I've heard of dogs that have one seizure, then never have one again. Then there are dogs that are so seizure sensitive, that the slightest change in meds or dosing (like turning the clocks back) can trigger them to seize. It really is a mystery. My Henry had his first seizure on his third birthday (I remember thinking, wow, what a horrible birthday this must be for him). But luckily for us, his seizures were pretty intermittent for the first year or so. We decided not to medicate right away, since he was only averaging one sporadic GM every 2-6 months. The reason I made the decision not to medicate is because seizure meds aren't the most benign drugs in the world. They often have side effects, and some, like Phenobarbital, cause liver damage with longterm use. But then his seizures started gradually increasing, and he started having both partial and GM seizures every month. At that point, we had no choice. I did the consult with a veterinary neurologist, and I am very happy we went that route. Hoping Thyme is doing better today.

Glad to see she's feeling better. Even though you're pretty close to the vet's office, I might still ask the vet for rectal Valium. It's good to have on hand for clusters. I have a "seizure pack" for Henry that I take with us to parks or on trips. It has Valium, Bach's Rescue Remedy, and our log book in it. He always seems to seize at inconvenient times (once on a walking path in a public park, once in a dog park). I've never had to use the Valium, but it gives me a little piece of mind knowing it's there.

Henry had a spider bite earlier this year, and it was absolutely awful. He was in excrutiating pain like I've never seen before. We went to the regular vet twice before going to the e-vet. The bite kept getting worse and worse, then the swelling turned to edema and continued halfway up his leg. Following a joint tap, we found that it had infected the bone. He was on heavy duty ABX (Baytril and Clavamox) and pain management meds for six weeks until it finally cleared up.

I'm sad to hear this. One of the fundamental parts to a good trainer/behaviorist/vet/professional is to be hopeful and optimistic. I'm a firm believer that there are no "untrainable" dogs.

Denise, make sure they give you rectal Valium to bring home. That way, if she starts having cluster seizures (one after the other), you can get her stabilized at home. As MaryJane mentioned, it's a really good idea to do a consult with a veterinary neurologist if the seizures continue. I found that my neurologist was much more knowledgable about pharmacology than my regular vet, who only prescribes the two most popular seizure drugs- phenobarbital and Keppra. I've never done an MRI on Henry. It's extremely expensive, the dog has to be under anesthesia, and MRI only detects encephalitis and tumors (both of which are unlikely in a young dog). Seizures in a young, otherwise healthy dog are most often epilepsy related, and they won't show up on any type of test anywhere. They're idiopathic, meaning, they happen without any rhyme or reason. Seizures look really scary, but they can be well managed with the right medication. My Henry was averaging at least one grand mal seizure per month, and he has been seizure free since last December on Zonisamide. The other things you can do is rule-out certain things. Did you dose flea/tick/heartworm preventative in the last 24 hours? Any new cleaning supplies? Any possibility she ate something she shouldn't have? Have you ever done CBC bloodwork? Sometimes seizures can be caused by thyroid issues, so I'd recommend getting a full thyroid panel done as well. Write down the date and time of the seizures in a notebook to look for patterns in mealtime, exercise, etc. If she continues having seizures on a regular basis (my neurologist says at least one per month) or has cluster seizures, then it's time to consider meds. A neurologist is the best route to go.

I have a puller too, and like your girl, he walks perfectly sometimes and pulls other times. The pulling starts when he's trying to get to something he wants (another dog, a smell, certain people). We made very good progress with obedience classes. There, we worked a lot on focus training ("look at me" and "look at that"). So now, when we encounter a distraction, I can usually get his focus back to me before he goes over-threshold. If there are no distractions present and the dog is pulling just to be in front, there's a different training regimen you can use. Give her a little slack on the leash, and whenever she starts pulling forward, either (1) stop dead in your tracks and don't move until the leash goes slack again, or (2) turn on your heels and walk in the other direction. When she comes back to the heel position, reward her ("good girl!" and treat) then continue on. Work on this first in a place with minimal distractions, like inside your house or yard. Then, gradually work up to more challenging situations. For awhile, you may look crazy to your neighbors, because you'll be stopping/turning A LOT. The other part about the training is consistency. If you do this training with every walk, every single time, the dog eventually learns that pulling doesn't reward her in any way. I would recommend obedience class to anybody, even dogs that don't necessarily have any problems. The challenge for you may be finding a class without small dogs, as it will be quite difficult to maintain focus if she gets hyperfixated on a small dog. As for training tools, I also do not recommend head harnesses like Gentle Leader or Halti. They're only tools- they don't solve the root problem of focus and impulse control. If you feel like you have to use a training tool to give yourself more control, I like the WWW Freedom No-Pull Harness clipped in front. When we started obedience training, I worked Truman on a harness at first. For the first few classes, I leashed him on the harness. Then after that, he continued to wear the harness, but I leashed him on his martingale. Finally we removed the harness from the equation altogether. It's important to make sure you do a combination of training + training tool (which unfortunately, most people don't do). The last thing that I did which seemed to help was to pre-exercise my boy before walks. He came to us at 15-weeks-old, so we went through all the typical puppy behaviors. But even at age 2, I found that walks don't cut it. He need much more exercise than other greyhounds. If your girl is the same way, try tossing her some toys around the yard first. Let her do some hard running first to get it out of her system. Good luck!

Aww, poor girl. She's still pretty young, right? Dogs with epilepsy start having seizures around 3-4 years old, so that would make sense. Then again, some dogs can have one seizure and then never have one again. They're a huge mystery. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed and checking back for an update.