kolarik1
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Posts posted by kolarik1
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One of my hounds had slo-- he took tetracycline and niacinimude-- short tapering dose of pred and lots and lots of essential fatty acids. He responsed well to the treatment.--I'm sure your pup will too. I would give the Doc's a call--ask them about adding the EFA's to your pups protocol.
essential fatty acids? I asked about the pred and they said no for now, still no thyroid med either, just the doxy & niacinamide. I actually have the direct email to the derm vet, so I could get a list of items together and send it to her so I have it in writing!
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Well, they put Pop on Doxycycline (which I got @ Sams) and Niacinamide (picked up at Better Health Store for now, will buy online). Recheck in 30 days.
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I complained to my car company about the fact that at the time, my car had 33,000 miles on it & was 3 1/2 years old, yet I had to pay for new ty-rods...I was LIVID...they reimbursed me for the cost of the ty-rods and the labor.
As I told them, not so nicely, that my previous car never needed new ty-rods, I bought it at 42,000 miles and had it til approx 115,000 miles...different car company. And I ended the original complaint email with the 'I guess they don't make cars like they used to, so it'll be a VERY long time before I buy another one if they're just going to fall apart' kind of rant. Got my $ back and I was stunned that they actually did reimburse me. -
You should have the benefit of good dermatology vets at MSU. My vet said the most important thing was getting it under control before it could involve any internal organs. The vets work hard to prevent that - they will take good care of your boy!
The only issue is, he's been breaking out like this for almost 5 1/2 years now...the past biopsies have said 'severe allergic dermatitis' but from the previous biopsies the vets have never told me they have been able to find pustules to biopsy...the MSU derm vets did find the pustules, which is how they came up with the diagnosis. So....my thing is, I don't know how long he has truly had the Lupus...but his bloodwork came back good, so that's a huge plus...BUT, we still have to wait on the urinalysis...so I'm praying that his kidneys are either completely ok or not in too bad of a shape that they can be managed.
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Cutie was on Niacinamide for a while. I could have the pharmacy at WalMart special order it in tablet form, but I found a source online in capsule form that was much better. If the vet recommends it for Pop, here is the source:
Cutie was on a combination of Tetracycline and Niacinamide. We tried Pred early on but it caused too much muscle loss in Cutie.
I just saw Pop's picture in this thread and Cutie's reaction was nothing like that. She did have hair loss on her ears and spots on her legs and torso but Pop looks more like a type of pemphigus. In Cutie, her body was attacking the basal cells because of the food allergies. It took a year to figure this out with a good dermatology vet. :-(
Hope you find the right combination for Pop and get everything under control.
Thanks for the link! I am still just hurting knowing that Pop has Lupus. I know that we all die sometime, but just knowing that with him it could be a lot sooner is really hitting home...I am truly hoping I have a few more years with him...he is 8 1/2, but I would love to see him hit the double digits.
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I know there's no cure...my paternal grandmother died of complications from lupus...I have no hope that he will be 'cured'...just wanted to know what others have done. Besides Pop having to pee more, the Pred seems to have worked for him in the past.
I honestly feel like someone ripped my heart out and stomped on it and I got sucker punched in the gut. I know all I can do is control the flare ups and love Pop as much as possible...and DBF can hardly wait to see Pop again, he is constantly telling me to give Pop extra loving from him. Even Zelda knows something is wrong (don't they always know?) and is acting a little strange. Once I've wrapped my head around it I'm hoping she will be more like her normal self, although she will be devastated when the day comes that she loses her big brother.
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Ok, so if you have seen my other thread http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/269845-pemphigus-foliaceous/, the derm vet is saying Pop has 'lupus like disease' and they want him in for a urinanalysis early this next week.
My question is, for those that have lupus pups, what do you use to treat it? In the past when we thought it was allergies, pred combined with cephalexin would clear him up, but this last time the cephalexin didn't work...the pred took the inflammation down tho. I have read through a few other posts and see that some have recommended putting straight Vit E oil on the nose, which I have a small bottle of it as I keep it around in case the pups lose hair on their butts...rub it on and after a few day their hair comes back (ok, so that's only been Pop who has needed it). Also a low dose of Pred in the past (every other day) seemed to make the symptoms stay away for awhile.
Thoughts? I'm still waiting on the culture results to come back, which won't be until about the end of this coming week.
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Niacin is not the same as niacinimide. Carolina takes niacinimide for pemphigus. It really helps her.
Then the pharmacist was lying to me...I read the label and didn't think it was the same, but since the pharmacist *told* me it was the same and they go to school for this very thing, I believed him/her. That really irks me...I took a pharmacology course in college, so I guess I'll have to pull my nifty reference book out...
Meanwhile Zelda is acting weird...I think it's because she knows I'm upset about Pop, but not sure.
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Well the resident vet called today as they had the biopsy results, but not the culture results...those are due next week.
Her exact words 'lupus like disease'...so definitely not pemphigus, but I think they are still trying to figure out which type of lupus, the skin (discoid) or systemic...and what is weird is last fall my normal vet had mentioned discoid lupus and started having me give Pop Vit E and Niacin (pharmacist said it was the same as niacinimide), but it didn't seem to keep the outbreaks at bay. We talked for a bit on the phone & she was saying based on his history, the looks of him and what they had learned from me it didn't appear systemic, but they still need to do a urinalysis because they couldn't get enough urine when he was there...so I have to take him in the beginning of this next week for a urinalysis...but he has been consuming more water lately (and of course urinating more)...when I told her that she sounded a little worried that it may be affecting his kidneys, which as she basically said 'are essential for a dog.'
The cultures are to see exactly what type of bacteria he has so we know what type of meds will help kick the infections...and he'll have to start on immunosuppressant therapy. She called around 4:30 while I was at work, so I hung up the phone and cried at my desk...good thing there are 5' walls around and most people are gone by that time on a Friday. My supervisor is really nice so I'm sure she'll have no problem with me going to pick Pop up some time during the day this next week.
So it's still Dog Chow for now, no meds at all and I am trying to find this solution (which they say is OTC @ any pharmacy) to soak Pop's paws in.
ETA his blood work came back good, so besides possibly affecting the kidneys the rest of his organs appear to be unharmed (for now)
It just breaks my heart that he has this as I lost Mousey in December to cancer and my paternal grandmother died from complications of Lupus when I was 3 months old, after suffering with it for approx. 20 years.
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This is what Pop looks like right now...the paw picture isn't the greatest, but you can see the pink on his paw...his front paws are the worst, but all 4 paws are affected.
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I understand wanting to KNOW what he has. But don't wish for that one. Let's hope for something else.
Trust me, I really don't want it to be Pemphigus...I just want to know WHAT it is...Pop is so beat up looking right now and his paws are bothering him, it sucks to see him like this. DBF is very protective (almost over protective) of Pop as he thinks of Pop as 'his boy' and those 2 do bond well together...might explain why Pop was all over the student vet (male) but hid behind me when the resident vet (female) came in the room. DBF is so good with both pups but is very protective of 'his boy.'
I don't know if you or your DH have seen Pop fully broken out, but it's not good by any means. I'm going to take some pictures tonight of his face and try some pictures of his paws, altho those will be much harder to get a good picture of. It's very hard for me to trim his nails as his paws are so tender and I feel like an ogre when I do it, but I know I have to so his nails are much longer than they should be.
Pemphigus Foliaceous and food allergy can look very much alike. When Cutie was tested the results came back inconclusive. She was treated with medications for immune disorders and while they helped didn't solve the problem. That's when we tried the diet for food allergies.
She was also taken off Soloxine. They didn't want to put her back on it for a while and when she had a dental they had a lot of trouble getting the bleeding stopped from an extraction. Not being on her thyroid medication could have contributed to that. She's back on Soloxine now and did just fine in her recent dental.
I actually asked the resident vet 'what if this biopsy comes back like the other 2 and says severe allergic dermatitis? How will we treat it then?' and she wanted us to wait until the results came back before determining a course of action
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Which antibiotics are you treating with? I was told by the MSU dermatology vets that sometimes Cephalexin can actually trigger or worsen Pemphigus folaceous (sp?). Pop just underwent a biopsy and cultures yesterday @ MSU and I'm waiting on results as they strongly suspect Pemphigus, yet 2 biopsies done probably 2 - 4 years ago (done at different times) both came back as 'severe allergic dermatitis.'
Pop breaks out in his nail beds on all four paws, his genitals, anus, under his left eye, around his nose and under his chin...only a tiny spot in the corner of his right eye. It is red with crusty areas.
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Well, Pop went to MSU today...student vet saw him (since when are vets cute?), then the resident vet...then they took him to see the professor!
They ended up not doing allergy testing as there *may* be an underlying food allergy, but they definitely don't suspect an environmental allergy...they too were puzzled with the fact that he got better on the Dog Chow, but think maybe it's because he was off of his meds...they biopsied him & ran some cultures, so I have to wait 5 - 10 days for the results...however, the resident vet & professor are thinking Pemphigus Foliaceous...
I've already searched the forum & see some others have had their hounds diagnosed with this as well.
For now, Pop is not to receive any medication (not even thyroid meds) until the results are back...I just have to soak his paws in this solution which I can get at any pharmacy and to remain on the Dog Chow. Part of me is hoping it is Pemphigus just so that I will have an actual, correct diagnosis and I can treat it.
Currently Pop is crashed on the bed after eating some food when he got home. I love my big goofy boy who was thrilled to see Zelda & I...but the look he gave me this morning while the vets were discussing his case. I thought for sure he was going to come home and poop/pee on all of my things...he gave me some major stink eye!
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All 3 of your boys are handsome! Welcome from Michigan (and kind of from Florida, DBF is currently stationed in Pensacola)
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Don't get too excited
-- we pinpointed our allergy via a lucky accident. So for your pup, could be the fish oil, could be any one of a number of additives or nutrients ... or more than one (eek).The dog foods on the market tend to fall into broad "perceived quality" (and price) tiers. Within those tiers, the ingredients in the foods are remarkably similar.
That's what I've noticed. I was really hoping the holistic type foods would have helped him but they never seemed to...and I just looked at all of their ingredients...they all have some type of fish and some have dried beet pulp (not saying he is allergic to it, but you never know)
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I really am confused that he is actually doing better on the Purina Dog Chow because like Doggiemomma said, it has all the things in it that would make him worse!
Not necessarily
. IIRC it doesn't have fish/fish oil. My allergic dog would have done just fine on it ... and would not have been fine on almost every other "decent" or "better" food on the market. It really does depend on what they're allergic to.That's interesting about the fish/fish oil...I used to give fish oil capsules up until about a year ago...when I ran out of my current bottle I picked more up at Sams and the pups wouldn't eat them, even though they were the same thing...so I gave them to one of my fosters when he was here, but now I may just pitch them as mine will not eat them.
I looked at the ingredient list for both Purina Dog Chow and Diamond Naturals...dog chow doesn't have fish in it, whereas Diamond Naturals does...
GT may have just figured out what Pop is allergic to!
I'll run it past the vet on Wednesday -
Good to know...out of curioustiy, what home cooked diet are you using? I have tried that in the past as well and it was a lot of work to cook for just Pop, so when Zelda was adopted I went back to kibble...but if home cooked is best for him, then that's what I would do.
The test diet was high carb - sweet potato, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower and green beans. We added hamburger after the 2 week test, but the carbs gave her diarreah.
Now she gets Hamburger, rice, spinach and black beans. She has done well with this diet - the diarreah stopped immediately when she got the spinach. Her poops have a wonderful green hue.
It has controlled about 90% of her allergy.It IS a lot of work - and getting expensive. I'd give anything to find a commercial food that works, but haven't been successful.
I'm not going to show Pop your response or he would drool all over my computer!
When I cooked for him, it was an allergy diet out of Dr. Pitcairn's book and Pop thought he was in heaven then...but it was a lot of work to cook for him and I couldn't imagine doing it for 2...so we'll see what the vets (student & teaching vet) have to say when they see him on Wednesday.I really am confused that he is actually doing better on the Purina Dog Chow because like Doggiemomma said, it has all the things in it that would make him worse! Not to mention the 'by-product' info so you don't really know what is in there...but hey, if it works, then it works.
I took him for his longest walk yet tonight in the last week and he barely limped...his paws are inflamed, but not like they were...so we'll see what antibiotics/steroid they want to put him on to clear up the infection (if any).
And right now Pop has decided to roach...love my boy...he's not a big roacher.
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Here's the weird thing...before Pop was adopted he was in foster care for I believe 4 months, his foster mom used Eagle Pack Holistic and no problems...when we got him, my ex and I had switched him to Member's Mark Exceed Lamb & Rice (which he hated) and within that first month he had an ear infection...so we tried putting him back on Eagle Pack but the problems continued...now he was fostered in Northern Ohio (ran in West Virginia @ Tri-State) and now is in southern Michigan...so I don't know how Northern Ohio & southern Michigan could be all that different when he had no symptoms in Ohio.
He has continued to have more and more breakouts since that first ear infection...so now that he is on just Purina Dog Chow & absolutely nothing else is when he seems to be calming down in the breakouts...
Trust me, Pop would LOVE if I cooked for him again...he is a HUGE fruit fan and loves some veggies too! And he loves fresh venison (as in just ground venison burger...no, he's not spoiled
)ETA, the reason they suggested dermatology vet this time is he has had biopsies before and they come back 'severe allergic dermatitis'...however, the way his symptoms present the vets weren't 100% that he really had allergies...last fall they were wondering if maybe he had discoid lupus or some other autoimmune disease (I refuse to have his toe amputated to check for that as they said it may still not show in the toe)...and that's why they put him on Vit E/niacin, but that didn't even stop the breakouts...his symptoms present more as autoimmune than allergy in the vets opinions (more than one has said that). Plus when I pushed for a full thyroid panel (which former vet didn't want to do), his blood was tested @ MSU and he was found to have low thyroid and when he first was put on the meds it seemed to help with the breakouts some...
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I wonder if the Purina Dog Chow doesn't have all of the added Antioxidants that are found in most foods today, including Diamond. Cutie has food allergies and is on a home cooked diet now -- she was also on Diamond for years. My dermatology vet has mentioned that her allergy might have been from the antioxidants. Instead of allergy testing, he chose to put her on a test diet that had no ingredients that could cause allergies and she was showing much improvement after 2 weeks. That's when she went on the home cooked.
Will be interested in hearing about your visit.
Good to know...out of curioustiy, what home cooked diet are you using? I have tried that in the past as well and it was a lot of work to cook for just Pop, so when Zelda was adopted I went back to kibble...but if home cooked is best for him, then that's what I would do.
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I don't have any experience with dog allergies, but I do with cat allergies. With our Maine Coon girl, her allergies were environmental not food related so the allergy test really made a difference. Unfortunately it wasn't anything we could remove from the environment (she was allergic to grass, pollen, trees, dust . . . ) but weekly allergy shots made a HUGE difference.
From my experience, I'd say do the allergy test -- it might not be a food allergy, it might be something else.
I still want to do the allergy testing, I am just hoping the vet will want to as well...heck, they probably will just to get the $$ It amazes me that they'll have a student check Pop over first, yet they charge you for the student to look at the dog...um, the students pay to go to school there & there's other types of funding, so why charge me for that? It's not a lot, not nearly as much as the established dermatology vet who will check him over after the student speaks to him/her, but still...
Pop will be at MSU bright and early...8 am on the 16th! You know, for living only a couple miles from my alma mater, I haven't been on campus in a few months...I'll need to take the pups there for a walk once Pop's paws are better.
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Since Pop's breakouts were getting worse and the benadryl, thyroid meds, antibiotics, steroids, vit e & niacin weren't keeping them under control, my vet said I should have a dermatology consult with MSU. So I took Pop off of everything except his thyroid meds per the instructions from MSU and he's scheduled to go in this coming Wednesday. 2 weeks before the visit you are supposed to have your pup on Purina Dog Chow and that's it for food...so he's been getting that (& loving it, he thinks he hit the jackpot).
I have fed Diamond Naturals for over a year, TOTW & Eagle Pack Holistic before that and nothing seemed to stop his breakouts. He did get milk bones, but there were periods where the milk bones were taken away in favor of 'holistic' treats and his fruits were taken away.
Now here's the kicker...the 2 weeks before the food switch he started breaking out so bad that he could hardly walk (his face, paws & privates are always affected), so I took him right out in front of my building to potty & then took Zelda for a walk...he was literally falling down on snow/ice because he didn't want to put weight on his paws. Well, when the switch occurred, I now use a few pieces of kibble as a reward for going in his crate rather than any other treat and his face actually looks like it is drying up, he is walking better...enough to the point where he is now going on walks again with us. He is not completely healed as he would need steroids/antibiotics to completely heal up, but he looks better now then he did a week ago
Has anyone else with allergy dogs ever noticed this? Where the dog actually got better on Purina Dog Chow? Here I've been trying to feed him holistic foods, granted he was getting milk bones but not all the time. If this is what it takes to keep his allergies under control, then I'm all for it (I can get a 50lb bag of Purina Dog Chow at Sams for $22). I know the Dog Chow isn't really formulated for greys, or what is usually recommended for greys, but if it works for him then I'm all for it.
I'll still keep the vet visit, I just don't know if they will even suggest the allergy testing now? I have it scheduled at work so that I can take him in and then go pick him up in the afternoon if they do want to do allergy testing. Heck, Pop even wants to play more and is begging for me to play with him when I get home...just like when he feels good.
What does GT think?
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Could it be her anal gland? My Vanilla does that when her anal gland is acting up - a vet visit usually clears that up!
I forgot about that! I'll get her checked out! Thank you.
Zelda bites/attacks her rear when her anal glands are full. It could be worms, you'll just have to check for both.
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It's so true though. Pop is going to the dermatologist in 2 weeks, in the mean time he had to come off most of his meds and be switched to another food before the testing. Right now his front paws are giving him problems, so I am taking him out by himself so I can help him if he needs it (he fell on the snow & ice earlier this week). I can hardly wait for his appointment to be here so I can help him get better again...it's heartbreaking to see him all broken out yet knowing they want him to be completely flared up for the appointment...and he's being such a good boy about it too. He's a little jealous that Zelda gets to go for walks and he has to go potty right in front of the building, but with his front paws the way they are, I'm trying to keep him from hurting himself more...people who don't own pets would think I'm nuts, but those who have pets know I am doing what I have to in order to try to get a correct diagnosis for him so this can *hopefully* be prevented or minimized in the future!
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I get mine here, I try to get the 12 inch Jumbos, but they don't always have them in stock. At $2.99 they're a bargain and my hounds LOVE them, they're so thick I don't worry when the get down to the ends. Try the lamb lung while you're shopping, so much more reasonable than the Baa Baa Q brand. http://www.bestbullysticks.com/
I just saw the Carob dipped bully sticks on the site...Zelda would be in HEAVEN if I got those...she's definitely a chocolate (or fake chocolate) lover just like her mama
As I told them, not so nicely, that my previous car never needed new ty-rods, I bought it at 42,000 miles and had it til approx 115,000 miles...different car company. And I ended the original complaint email with the 'I guess they don't make cars like they used to, so it'll be a VERY long time before I buy another one if they're just going to fall apart' kind of rant. Got my $ back and I was stunned that they actually did reimburse me.
-- we pinpointed our allergy via a lucky accident. So for your pup, could be the fish oil, could be any one of a number of additives or nutrients ... or more than one (eek).
It has controlled about 90% of her allergy.
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Lupus
in Health and Medical discussion
Posted
Thanks everyone.
The good news...his urinalysis came back good, so as of right now it's only in his skin...not in his organs. Pop is soaking up the attention & Zelda is showing some worry over him, but I think everything will settle back down. I just hope that this clears up for now.
And Soulsmom...Pop's symptoms also seem to flare up in the winter more...and we're in Michigan! Go figure.