greyhndz

I'm so glad you posted, and I'm so sorry your pup lost his battle. We were very relieved that he started to show improvement about 2 months after starting the HA, and were hopeful that the diet would be enough to keep him stable. Initially, when he was first put onto the HA, he was also on pred and he didn't care what the kibble tasted like. Then, when he was off steroids, he realized that it was pretty crappy-tasting stuff. Now that I've stopped the z/d and am using just a spoonful of venison, it will keep him interested in the HA but with far less fat. 24 hrs on pred and already he looks awful to me, but both my own vet and the IM vet feel strongly that it's the only way to get his albumin up and keep him stable until the cyclosporine kicks in. I know this all sounds way too familiar to you..... Thanks Jennifer! I was fortunate to have found this site last winter. The folks are very supportive and also very knowledgeable, so it's time for me to check in again.

Could you share the pharmacy info so I can check into the pricing for the budesonide? The dog door. Oy. Let me just say that I've been leaving the slider door open so he can get to the deck and down to the yard easily. He still pees on the kitchen floor. Or he'll go through the dog door to the deck to poop, then come inside to pee on the floor. Dandi has "issues" between his ears. Dandi has been on Tylan for years. I really saw a difference for a long time, until his flare last year. He's still on it, but is now on metronidazole for a week in addition to the pred and cyclosporine, and also ranitidine and probiotics which he's been on for many months. He received B-12 injections at the time of his last flare - I'll mention it to Fiona (vet) when he goes back for labs next week.

If you scroll down a few threads, you'll find my story about Dandi, my galgo. He has protein-losing enteropathy, and lymphangiectasia, a type of inflammatory bowel disease. Dandi needs to be on an ultra-low-fat, hypoallergenic (novel protein) diet for his particular form of the disease. When I read carefully the nutritional stats on z/d canned, I was horrified to see that it is not at all low-fat, and hypoallergenic or not, I'm sure it was a factor in Dandi's relapse. So beware of z/d if a low-fat diet was recommended. If he's on any type of immunosuppression (prednisone, cyclosporine, etc.) I would not risk feeding raw. If you can swing it financially, it might really be beneficial to have him evaluated by an internal medicine vet who is comfortable evaluating and managing suspected IBD. Your vet might have an IM vet with whom she's developed a working relationship, and they could co-manage his care so your vet is kept in the loop. This is what we're doing with Dandi: my vet is seeing him, checking labs and doing re-exams, and she calls our IM vet to discuss strategy. Perhaps your own vet would be willing to do the same with an IM colleague. It sounds as if you've got questions and concerns that are totally appropriate and deserve to be addressed.It's easy to say that you should find a vet more responsive and open to new ideas, but when you're dealing with a crisis you need to feel that you have someone near by who is familiar with his case. It just sounds as if it would helpful to have a new set of eyes involved who can clarify the diagnosis and manage the treatment plan together with your own vet. I hope PJay begins to improve soon and that he responds quickly to treatment. I do so empathize, going through the same problem with Dandi. Jordan Yes! This is a site which is devoted to lymphangiectasia. The folks are very supportive and have a lot of good info to offer. It's time for me to check back in again, so I'll see you there.

About 8 months ago, Dandi (galgo) was diagnosed with lymphangiectasia, a form of IBD and protein losing enteropathy. This thread explains the situation. He did very well on an ultra-low-fat,hypoallergenic diet until about a month ago, when the diarrhea returned full force. His albumin is now down to a critical level of 1.5 again, and even though his weight is stable, I can see a considerable difference in his condition over the past week. (His albumin was 1.6 last week, and his potassium and calcium were way out of normal range). He has PU PD (large volumes of water going in and coming out) which is flooding into my kitchen, and has several pure liquid stools daily. He's just been more sluggish and isn't playing with his toys as he usually does. He's had progressive hind end weakness -- all resulting from the low albumin. So far, he has not shown evidence of dehydration as was the case last winter. He's eating very well and doesn't have muscle wasting (yet). His diet has been a combination of Purina HA, an ultra-low-fat hypoallergenic kibble which looks like styrofoam. I've had to use z/d canned food to entice him to eat it, but still remain off any potential allergenic triggers. Unfortunately, I neglected to research the protein level, which is considerably higher than desirable, and he was eating a can a day. This may well have been the source of the relapse. After talking with his IM vet, the z/d has been stopped and he's getting a small amount of a low-fat novel protein (venison) mixed in with his HA kibble now. Only a large spoonful/meal, not 1/2 can. We started Dandi on cyclosporine last week, but it will take at least 4-6 weeks before we would expect to see improvement. Since he's deteriorated over the week, he's back on prednisone which I dread. He developed muscle wasting after only a week on pred last time, but we have no choice if we want to keep him stable until the cyclosporine kicks in. He's also taking metronidazole for the next 7 days. My IM vet's first choice was budesonide, but the cost is just too prohibitive. I found a good source of cyclosporine 100mg - 30 days for $89 vs around $400/month for budesonide. You can use your imagination to visualize what the pred is going to do with a dog who's already got PU PD. I'm going to need a canoe to navigate my kitchen. (BTW - Dandi has a dog door to go through, which he will do if I'm down there watching him, but if I'm not, he'll just let go indoors, probably because it's physically difficult for him to make it through the dog door). Or because he's a pickle. I hope he rebounds soon, and that the cyclosporine proves to be the right drug to manage his PLE/IBD. I know anyone who has taken this journey with their IBD dog knows too well the frustration of getting them stabilized, and of finding a way for them to get the nutrition they need without their gut leaking out all the protein. Oh, and did I mention that I'm losing my job as of Aug 31? (yes, again...)

Dandi is on an ultra-low hypoallergenic prescription kibble (Purina HA) for his lymphangiectasia, but I'd never use it unless I had no choice -- and I have no choice. For treats, I'm a yam fan. Sam's Yams are great, or you can make yam chews yourself if you have a dehydrator. Non-fat, low calorie and 100% yam.

Hi Ducky and baby Tessa! I found that Instinct ltd. ingredient kibble was a nice food, but the protein source available is only chicken or turkey, and that may not be helpful if he's been eating either of these in his food. Wellness also has several ltd ingredient diets and it seems they've made their formulas grain-free, too. This is a Petsmart food: sweet potato/salmon hope you find something that works for Tessa! jordan

It was far cheaper than I'd expected. I bought this one for around $65. Brian RKE, I haven't heard about icing the yams after blanching. Do you think this works better than cooking them before dehydrating?

After my disastrous first attempt at dehydrating yams, I was ready to sell the just-out-of-the-box dehydrator when I came upon this recipe. I learned what I did wrong (like, everything! -- DUH, you mean I'm supposed to cook them first?) So, behold the beauteousness of the dehydrated yam: They probably cooked in the dehydrator for about 12 hrs (I fell asleep for the 8-hr check) and came out perfectly -- the pack heartily approved. It's more time consuming than opening a bag of Sam's Yams, but it's way cheaper! BTW - instead of hand slicing the yams, get a mandolin -- it makes slicing SO much easier.

I'm dealing with the same problem with galgo Dandi. Protein-losing enteropathy. May be one of several forms of inflammatory bowel disease, but intestinal lymphoma has to be considered. Dandi has a variant called lymphangiectasia, This may be controlled by diet alone (very low fat, plus B-12 injections, only hypoallergenic/novel food additives or treats. He did not undergo bx because his albumin was only 1.5 (critically low) and he was not a good surgical candidate. In his case, there were changes and streaking showing up on the ultrasound that were pretty diagnostic of lymphangiectasia, so my vet suggested we start empirical treatment. He is on Purina HA, an ultra-low fat, hypoallergic kibble, which looks like little styrophone nuggets. I mix that with z/d canned for flavor. He is also on Tylan powder, probiotics, ranitidine and sweet potato treats (pure sweet potato). He was initially on steroids which was disastrous and did not make any difference. Our next step was cyclosporine (I couldn't afford budesonide) but we decided to ride it out to see if the dietary changes would lead to improvement after a few months, and luckily it did. As tbhounds recommended, an internal med vet who is experienced with IBG/protein-losing enteropathy is essential at this point to proceed with the diagnostics, and recommend an appropriate elimination diet. With a low protein, as in your dog's case, they may recommend IV infustion of hetastarch to prevent leaking of albumin from the gut. Some dogs need steroids, some go on to an immune modulating drug, such as imuran or cyclosporine, or budesonide, which releases steroids directly into the gut But first off should be an internal medicine vet to manage her care. Best of luck and let us know how she's doing!

I'm in love! With that sweet face and HUGE tongue, and with YOU for all the paying forward, backward, north and south. Tessa is DEFINITELY going to be your quiet little oldster lap girl! What a great iggy-mama's day for you both.

The instructions on my dehydrator also say to steam (or microwave with a little water) for a couple of minutes - not enough time to cook but it's supposed to help with the dehydration process, and also supposed to help the yams keep their color. Fritofeet, I'm about to PM you about those Sam's Yams! (See? this is why I don't cook)

Drumroll.... here are the little buggers I was a little bummed at the results, but it seems as if it's trial and error to get them the way you want. I thought I'd cut some large slices but they really shriveled up. Some were more crunchy, others softer, and because they were thinner than I'd hoped for, they weren't the thick, chewy consistency I wanted. I think I let them stay in the dehydrator too long -- 8 hrs, and I was supposed to shuffle the trays about 4 hrs in. I think I'll try cutting them julienne-style -- maybe they'll be more jerky-like. But they came out far smaller and thinner than Sam's. I'd also have to use larger yams if I want bigger chunks. The doggie response was luke-warm. I'll buy more yams later in the week and try it again.

Sam's Yam's aren't carried by many distributors - I've been asking. I was surprised -- my natural pet food store only carries products made in China. The owner said that if his distributor doesn't carry a product, he can't get it. I did find a made-in-the-USA, 100% dehydrated yams at Agway today, and I grabbed the few packages they had. I caved. I bought a dehydrator. A big one (5 trays). When I told the owner of the kitchen supply store what I planned on doing, she asked if I had a mandolin. I kind of for a second and told her I have a guitar but never played a mandolin. Then she showed me what a mandolin is, and I bought one. It's incredible at slicing and dicing, but despite using all the safeguards, my hand was sliced and diced as well. But for the cost of the dehydrator, yams and mandolin, it will be way cheaper than buying them commercially. Now, how long do the yams have to dehydrate before they're chewy?

Yeah, I know they're really simple to make with a dehydrator, but I'm wondering if any dog-treat chefs have expanded their menu to include yam chews for those of us who are kitchen-challenged. Also, I'm hoping to buy in bulk to keep up with the 6-pack. sam's yams thanx!

Joslin, how is he doing? Any feedback from his visit yesterday? Prednisone and budesonide is redundant. By this point, he should be off systemic pred and only on budesonide, or there's no purpose to his being on it. I'll also share with you the devastation steroids can have on him. When Dandi was so ill a couple of months ago, he was on pred for about 2 weeks, and within 1 week, the difference was alarming: he'd lost all muscle mass, and actually looked sunken, just protuberant bones. He looked as if he'd lost far more wieght than he actually had, and he was eating 3 meals/day (7-8 cups) at that point. In his case, it made no difference in the diarrhea nor in his albumin level so after the taper was completed, I vowed never to use it again for him. The purpose of using budesonide is to avoid these types of problems, so I hope you and your vet can work this out. Also, if you want a second opinion, do try Marion Haber at MVRH in Woburn. How is his albumin doing? He can develop profound muscle weakness if the albumin is low. Have you gotten the Tylan yet? I have some here if you need it right away. You can get it from KV Vet for a reasonable price. Every dog is different, but Dandi has never had a problem with it being sprinkled on top of his food. It will also take a couple of months before the Tylan will start to make a difference. I hope there will be better news tomorrow Jordan

Hi Joslin Just PM'd you but thought I'd share... Also forgot to mention that Dandi is also on daily probiotic in addition to pepcid. His cyanocobalamin (B-12) was low, so he received weekly injections x 5 weeks. His folic acid was normal. I personally didn't see any improvement with slippery elm, but if you'd like to try it I have a big bottle of powder and I'm happy to send down some for you to try. He's on Tylan 1/8 tsp/meal. Think about trying the NCU nutrition service for a customized diet. They also have supplements to go along with home-cooked food to complete a balanced diet. And if you'd like to try exotic meats for novel protein, I'll pick up some 'roo for yoo. If Harley has ascites, his albumin is likely critically low. An albumin <2 is considered severely low. IV Hetastarch can increase the albumin, and also increase the amount of fluid circulating in the blood vessels (as opposed to protein leaking through the bowel).But this is a short-term fix for critically-ill dogs, usually a bridge to tide them over until anti-inflammatories or immunomodulators kick in -- as soon as Hetastarch IV infusion ends, the serum albumin will again decline because it will continue to leak through the gut, but if his albumin is low enough to result in ascites or edema, he may need Hetastarch infusions right now to stabilize him. (Dandi's initial albumin was 1.5, and he was in hospital on Hetastarch for 3 days while starting pred and metronidazole.) This is totally my own observation and has nothing to do with medical fact, but Dandi's response to prednisone was not only horrible (within 1 week he already had muscle wasting) but there was no improvement in either his diarrhea or albumin. He looked sunken and emaciated (though he'd only lost 6 lbs). My vet and I agreed that we would gradually taper off pred over the next couple of weeks and had no problems doing so. This is an excellent article about IBD and treatment options. Scroll down to Therapeutic Options for IBD - this also mentions various immunosuppressants and immunomodulators (cyclosporine, etc.) and indications for each. My IM vet (and recent veterinary studies) suggests cyclosporine as the first choice immunomodulator, with/without prednisone or budesonide. I have not found a definitive recommendation for transitioning off systemic pred ---> budesonide, but hopefully your vet will have that information. I don't know what's worse for IBD dogs: the treatment or the disease. I hope this week brings better news about Harley, and food that will spark his appetite. Skritches for your beautiful boy. Jordan

I'm crawling out of my work hole long enough to share some good news about Dandi, my galgo diagnosed a few months ago with protein losing enteropathy and lymphangiectasia: After about 3 months of strict adherence to his ultra-low-fat, hypoallergenic diet (Purina HA kibble, z/d canned for flavor, and a tablespoon of pumpkin) his diarrhea has finally been controlled, and his albumin is up to 2.3, in the low-normal range! (I know it's low-normal but I'm focusing in on the NORMAL ) He's also on Tylan, ranitidine and probiotics, and on a chinese remedy, Four Marvels, per our acupuncture vet. The only treats he can have are 100% yam chips (Sam's Yams) or very low-fat salmon chews with no other ingredients. I swore that I would not make him continue eating the yuck in the commercial Rx foods, and I was ready to home cook exotic meats using a receipe made for him by a vet nutritionist. But now, I really don't want to fix something that ain't broke. He feels good, his numbers are good, he likes the food, and I don't want to risk a relapse. I don't know how long this remission will last, but I'm grateful for every day.

Hmm, I might have to find out about your budesonide source. I haven't connected with my vet yet but when I listened to her phone msg, she referred to a corticosteroid and a 3 mg dose, which I assume means the budesonide. I've come to terms with the cost of the cyclosporine because the studies seem to have supported its efficacy. I don't remember if your pup went onto cyclosporine prior to budesonide??! I will price it out at all pharmacies, including Sams' and costco. And thanks so much for the tip about AAA! I always forget to take advantage of their discounts..

Thank you! Will call them today as soon as I get the confirmed dosage. Looks like it should be 5mg/kg/sid - does that look right to you? I see bid dosing listed for induction.

I'm pricing out cyclosporine for Dandi (PLE, lymphangiectasia) , who is clinically looking great but his albumin and protein are still below-normal. Steroids were a nightmare. He's on Purina HA (low fat, hypoallergenic) but still has chronic pudding-poop and and protein loss. Next step per IM vet is cyclosporine. Waiting to get a confirmed dose but since we're all probably in the same dosing ballpark, does anyone have a good source in the US with affordable pricing? Thanks much

Depending on his pain level, you could start with it twice daily, and if necessary increase in frequency, The dose itelf can also go up, as it's 1-2mg/lb. -- the 75mg would be 1mg/lb for a 75 lb dog. But since he's also getting some coverage with an NSAID, I might be tempted to try a smaller dose to see if it will do the job. Dandi usually got relief of hi back pain with just 25mg but if he were having a rough time I'd go for 50. He gets fairly gorked on the 50mg, though. That's why I might start with a small dose (25-50) to see how he tolerated it. Poor sweetie ... give him smoochies from us.