silverfish

I agree with Kathy. If she's not looking better this morning, I'd take her in.

Thanks for all your comments, thoughts and information. What is good to know is that recovery isn't bad. I wouldn't want to put him through something that might or might not help if it was going to be awful for him. Littlegreys - I am so sorry to hear about your girl. What a horrible thing to suffer from. I suppose it may have just been the fluid, although according the to paper on the trial that I read last night, the stem cell group did hugely better than the control group which just had saline injections into the joint, so ... who knows? I'm glad to hear you had a couple of good months with her though. Seeh2o - Darn it. I suppose we all want to see improvement if we have something done to help our loved hounds, don't we? Well, I'm going to wait and see what the vet says when she rings back, and I suppose part of the decision will be on how much it costs and if the insurance will cover it.

Continuing to research, following the link that Needlenose Jake posted, I found this and this. Clinical trials are the basis of evaluation of new medical procedures so I did a search for them in relation to stem cell therapy/dog/arthritis. It seems proven that adipose tissue can indeed yield several different types of stem cell, some of which will form new cartilage and meniscus, measurable on MRI. So that's good news!

We wouldn't be using random stem cell clinics set up only for this purpose. We'd be using qualified vets. It's been done here by a few practices now, the first patient was treated by a vet from the University of Florida, apparently. And surely Dr Radcliffe in Wheeling isn't a charlatan?? This is a quote from the site of one of the veterinary practices which now offer in-house stem cell therapy: "Given the right conditions, Adult Stem Cells (ASCs) found in fat tissue, have the ability to differentiate into cell types such as cartilage, bone and muscle. The fat tissue is harvested from the chest area in a short surgical procedure under general anaesthetic. At the same time we take some blood and it all sent away to the lab to arrive the next day, where the tissue is broken down using enzymes, filtered for sterility and washed with a mild antibiotic. Some of the stem cells are kept frozen for use at later times but some of them are delivered back to the practice the following day and can be injected into the affected joints under sedation only. This procedure can be repeated as many times as necessary and on different joints, until the stored cells run out." If I could make him more comfortable without going for stem cell therapy I'd do it. But he already has massage, head pads, a variety of soft or supportive beds, and an arsenal of three different types of painkiller, and has been on all three at once when he's been really bad. Short of keeping his weight down, I can only think of two other options if he gets worse: buy him a cart (not easy, we've already looked into this) and euthanasia.

Jen: Yes, we're going to get him x-rayed. What she said was she'd take some fat while he was under because it's a simple procedure, and would save him an extra GA. She's going to find out about how to do that, how much fat, how to care for it in transit etc before we do anything at all. I'll let my vet know about Dr Radcliffe. Thanks for that. Mary: Good to know the recovery isn't too bad. Sid has fallen, usually when he trips over something, poor guy. He's so good and full of life and happiness most of the time that I really want to help him enjoy life for a while longer. Apart from this he's really a very healthy dog. Thanks to both of you.

Thanks Mary! So sorry to hear about your granddog. It's good to hear that he's still enjoying life - as is Sid. This is why I want to do something for him now, if at all possible. How was the procedure for him? Was there a long recovery, or was he just a bit sore for a day or two? Cost is - fortunately - not a major issue since he is insured. I HOPE they'd cover it!

Has anyone has had this done or are you considering it. A little background: Sid has now been a tripod for 7 years and is showing increasing signs of pain and reduced mobility. His single hind leg appears to be very strong, he's generally very well muscled (although his musculature is a bit unbalanced) and he still jumps into the car, mostly with no trouble. The floor pan is only 15 inches from the ground and there's no sill, or I wouldn't let him do it. As long as he gets a run up to it, he bounds in effortlessly. If he mis-steps or isn't given enough room, he'll struggle. He's stiff at the end of the day, and getting up from his bed is becoming more difficult. He's on Onsior 40mg once daily, with Tramadol for back-up if needed. I am aware that he cramps up. Sometimes if he stops walking properly while we're out I can support his stump and extend his hind leg gently, rub it for a couple of minutes and he'll take off again, quite fast and easily. He gets a daily massage with an electric massager. He's had that hind leg x-rayed from toe to ... well. Knee. Each time he's had an anaesthetic in the last couple of years I've asked them to include the hip and for whatever reason it hasn't been done. His spine has been x-rayed from neck to ... just in front of the hip! :rolleyes It's a little frustrating, but they're now thinking maybe it is his hip. I read about the protocol where they take abdominal fat cells from your dog, culture them, and then inject them into the hip, where they grow into new cartilage. I asked about it last year, and the vet had never heard of it and was dubious. This time when I talked to a different vet, she knew about it and is willing to get the information for us. It's a very, very new procedure over here in England and I'm wondering what you guys know about it. Thanks for any information!

Bisto Kid! Sid will come into the kitchen and lie down on the floor right behind me while I cook - that's between me and the fridge. It can be a bit awkward sometimes, but he's very well behaved and quiet, so I usually let him stay. I only move him if he's managed to get so close to the fridge that I can't open the door if I need to. Jeff sometimes comes in to lie down next to Sid but he usually manages to be out of the way, probably because I drop things, too! I dropped a ladle right between his paws yesterday and he shot out of the room so fast, poor guy! He probably won't come in the kitchen for a week, now, whereas after the number of times Sid has had his backside clunked by the fridge door opening he still hasn't learned not to be so close to it!

Dogs are pretty good at hiding pain, especially chronic pain. Jeffie bounces into our car like Zebedee, but he can't walk straight, often knuckles one of his hind legs and trips over thresholds. Sounds like a different issue to Jeffie's, I just wanted to round out the picture a bit.

How knowledgeable is your vet about greyhounds? I'd trust the opinion of a greyhound-savvy vet much more, but at four, I think I'd be inclined to go for a specialist referral to see what's going on. Jeffie's hind legs are 'all over the place' when he walks, but he's twelve. I was thinking spine - and he does have one or two bone spurs in the thoracic region, as we know from an x-ray series we took of his stomach a couple of years ago - but our vets think it's neurological. They see a lot of greyhounds, but even so I'm considering a second opinion. Greyhound spines can cause trouble, especially over the lumbar region, as they age. You may be right that he's had an injury over his loin/pelvis area which is still troubling him and it will be interesting to see if painkillers help him. Can you find out who his trainer was and ask? I wouldn't expect spine trouble in a four year old.

Welcome back, Jen! I remember you. I haven't changed my avatar or siggie either, despite Renie and Jack being gone since 2008/9. They were such beautiful dogs .. it's hard to let go, isn't it?

We use the sprinkle caps.

It's worth checking Amazon. I've found it to be the cheapest place to buy Cosequin DS on two occasions. I always shop around.

We've given Cosequin DS for years to several hounds with no problems, even those with dodgy tummies. Might be that, but might be something else. BTW - one tablet of Cosequin doesn't seem like a therapeutic dose for a greyhound. What strength are they?

Another toothbrushing video, this time with an electric toothbrush. Sid is missing the two teeth right at the back of his mouth at the top, so I don't go right back there, but normally you'd want to get the brush further into the cheek as in Never Say Never Greyhounds' video.

Impossible to really generalise. First dog had one extraction because of a broken tooth which developed an abscess. He kept all the others (in good condition) to the end, which was when he was 13 1/2 years old. Second dog left us at 10 yrs old with all of her teeth intact and in good condition. Third dog lost one of her incisors (nobody knows how or when!) but the rest were all there and in good condition when we lost her at 10 years old. Fourth dog came to us at 10 with quite a few teeth missing, and had to have more extractions later despite toothbrushing. He had sticky saliva and his muzzle was stained brown. His teeth gunked up really quickly. He ended up with all his canines still there, but missing all but three of the rest. He could still chew pig ears, but it took him forever! Sid also has sticky saliva and brown staining. He's 10 1/2 years old. He's had to have three extractions, but I'm working on keeping the rest. Toothbrushing and tartar removal when necessary, plus plenty of good chews (like raw lamb ribs). Jeffie came to us at 10 with half his teeth missing and some serious residual dental problems. He very quickly had to go back in for another dental when he lost all but five of his remaining teeth. Pity, really, because his teeth don't gunk up anywhere near as quickly as Sid's do. So he has five, and none of them oppose another tooth, so he does have problems with chewing. When I say 'good condition', I mean intact, no tartar or plaque, but with some yellowing or browning of the enamel for the oldies.

This - it can also it can pick up problems with heart function and sodium/potassium levels which can be a trigger for sudden death under GA. Yes, even in young dogs.

Nooo ... ! I am so, so sad to read this horrible news. It sounded so hopeful last night and I really thought I'd check in this morning to a good update. I am heartbroken too. All I can say is that, in time, you will be able to look back and at least say 'I did everything I possibly could'. Believe me, that is worth more than I can say, when it comes to losing a beloved dog. Phoenix was one of the lucky ones - he got to live his whole life in a home where he was loved and cherished, every day. He knew how much he was loved, and no doubt that's why he hung on to say goodbye to you before slipping away.

So pleased to hear he's doing well and the vets are being helpful. Great to hear he's coming hom! $6k is one heck of a slice of anyone's money, so I'm really sorry about that. Hopefully they will let you pay it off slowly. He's been on Amicar since the op, and has now been taken off it.

Best advice is to have a think and write down any concerns or questions you have because it's so easy to forget when you're actually there. I'd be asking about meds; what time of day, whether with food or not, why he's on each drug and how long for. What to look out for as signs of concern; eating, drinking, bladder and bowels as well as alertness etc. Exercise - I know he's not up to any right now, but you'd be surprised how that can change. I'd be expecting to give several small meals a day to encourage appetite and to help get some weight back on, and I'd be expecting him to sleep an awful lot for a while yet. As for stopping the Amicar, trust your vet. It's vital in some circumstances and with some dogs, but it does have some fairly hair-raising potential side-effects, so if Dr Day feels it's best to stop it, it probably is. The immediate need for it is past, since it's several days since the op and he is (presumably) not known to have a bleeding disorder. Ask if he needs lifting up and down stairs, in and out of the car etc. When he needs to go back for a check-up. Anything else you can think of. Certainly he'll need careful observation but also peace and quiet to recover in his own time, both physically and emotionally. He may be clingy, but equally he may want to hide away - if he does, don't feel he's upset with you, it's just what dogs do. So pleased to hear that he's on the mend at last!

Fingers all crossed here! Good to hear that there are small improvements - it's how it starts!

I don't think this situation is irredeemable. I think the OP just needs to take a deep breath, read the responses on this thread and try again. I think once she understands what her dog is saying to her and applies the advice given here, her dog will respond well. As for it not being the right type of dog for a first time owner, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean greyhounds, or just a dog who is willing to growl and snap to get his point across? Our first dog was a greyhound. I made a lot of mistakes with him, but we learned together and he turned out to be absolutely the BEST dog and a very, very loving companion. He wasn't the type to growl or snap, but many dogs are. As a dog owner, my philosophy is to try to understand and work with the ones I take on. I believe most people can do that, if they are willing to educate themselves. If the OP is genuinely afraid of her dog, that's different. But I didn't read it like that. I think the biggest thing she has to realise is that it's important not to reprimand a dog - any dog - for growling, because (as you know) once you teach a dog not to growl, that's when you get 'bites without warning'. My own feeling is that she needs to work on trust - trust works both ways, and I think she's been working more on being able to trust him than getting him to a place where he can also trust her. If that's the case, it's a fairly simple fix, in my opinion. Work on trust and mutual respect and it all falls into place.

We are in England but often get drugs for pets from human pharmacies. Sometimes they're a LOT cheaper online, too, so what I'll do in an emergency is buy a few days' supply from the vet (to make sure I have them quickly) and then ask for a prescription for the rest. One time I took a prescription for Gabapentin into Boots (one of our bigger pharmacies) only to find that they'd been able to buy a ton of it very cheaply and it cost me about £5 instead of about £40! It can work out really well. I hope Phoenix is doing better today.

I'd normally say bring him home as soon as you can, but if he's vomiting, it's a bit different. It's not just that he's not eating, but something is upsetting his stomach. Can you ask the vet if it's worth trying him on a different painkiller? Fentanyl can cause nausea and vomiting. I'd also let them know that you're concerned at the bill racking up, while at the same time you want to do all that's necessary for Phoenix. They shouldn't be unsympathetic to that. Most people can't find a couple of thousand dollars at a moment's notice. On balance, I think I'd talk it through with the vet and ask if you can try bringing him home with a different painkiller, and see if he does better - you can always take him back in if necessary, but many, many greyhounds do very much better at home. They wanted Sid to come home as soon as possible for that reason.

Sid was very poorly for about a week after his splenectomy. He wasn't interested in food or drink for the couple of days. I had to syringe water into him by mouth, and then the first thing he'd drink and keep down was home-made low-sodium chicken broth (basically I just pressure cooked some chicken carcases in a pint or two of water and gave him the liquid to drink, warm). You may find that Phoenix will drink something like that, with a little flavour, rather than just plain water. It also has a little bit of nutrition in it, too. Heavy duty painkillers will usually reduce appetite and make them sleepy and disinclined to move much. Sid was on Vetergesic (buprenorphine) which is an opioid. He doesn't do well with it, but the vet thought it was the best pain relief for him and insisted he have it, and he didn't really eat or brighten up until he was off that and onto something lighter. He is hampered by being a tripod, so we had additional mobility problems, but basically his recovery was difficult due to blood loss, pain, and the side effects of painkillers. The good news is that he recovered fully. Looking at him in the first few days after his surgery I couldn't imagine every having 'my' Sid back, and couldn't stop crying, but we DID get him back, and the change from poorly patient to rapid recovery was really quite sudden. One day he was very much 'off his legs' and feeling crappy, the next he had a bit of sparkle back in his eyes and it was smooth sailing from there on. Fingers crossed for Phoenix that it's the same for him!