Josie Is Very Sick And We Dont Know What To Do At This Point.

[Guest sophjoe03]

Hello, I am new here and I am looking for help. My Josie is very sick. She started out haveing stomache problems and we have been to the vet several times. We have been dealing with this since 8-4-09 and She is now down to 48 pounds and keeps loosing weight. She started out at 68 pounds. Our vet scoped her and said her intestines looked funny so they sent us to OSU and they did another scope and said that Josie's clinical signs were caused by pyogranulomatous inflammation in her proximal intestines. The inflamation is the result of either an infectious process or an autoimmune disease. They took 21 samples to biopsy and couldnt get a diganose from it. Josie is on Baytril - 136mg , Prednisone - 20mg every 12 hours , Omeprazole 20 mg once a day, prilesec once a day. She has been on these meds for a solid week and a day and we dont see any improvement. She is still refussing to eat because it causes her stomach to hurt. She stretches and bows a lot and stays in the bow position for a period of time. I called OSU again today because it just kills me to see her suffer in pain and loose so much weight. She wants to eat but she wont in fear of pain. I am just so sad and Havent stopped crying in days. If anyone has any sugesstions I am all ears. OSU said this morning that they have no idea what to do for her at this point. She is strong and wants to fight. She is getting weaker by the day. Thanks for listening.

Heidie and the hounds

[Guest TheUnrulyHound]

I have no advice but please give her a kiss from me poor baby, I hope they find something to help her soon

[Guest sophjoe03]

I tried offering her everything under the sun and she wont eat. I have made her Chicken and rice and hamburger and even offered her steak and she refussed. She wants to eat but acts as if the food stinks or makes her nausas. I hope someone has some ideas. I am even willing to try some cooked meals if someone has any to sugest. They had talked once about IBS but hasent said much about it since.

Heidie

[Guest Energy11]

Will she take yogurt, chicken broth, anything?

 

You could mix , low sodium chicken broth with pureed baby meat, and maybe some yogurt, and use a turkey baster to get it into her. At least, she'd be getting nourishment, which might make her stronger. At this point, the only thing I can see to help WOULD be force-feeding, via the above method, a little at a time, several times a day.

[CaliforniaGreys]

There are many things that have worked for them when they won't eat. But if your girl isin't eating because it hurts, I would imagine she's not going to eat no matter what it is.

Getting to the bottom of what's going on will be the key I would think. I'm a little shocked that the team at OSU couldn't figure anything out.

 

keeping you both in my prayers

[Burpdog]

Ask for carafate and you have to give inbetween meds. Prilosec once a day probably isn't cutting it as far as calming her stomach. Pred can and will tear it up.

 

Try EVO canned and hand feed. Sometimes they do better if you warm it up.

[Guest TheUnrulyHound]

When my Angel Outlaw was refusing to eat Batmom suggested a recipe to try, he started eating really well after I made it. When I would run out and try to wean him off of it he would go on a hunger strike He really loved his "meatloaf" here is the recipe so you can try it, I hope it helps.

 

Not a miracle recipe, but most dogs seem to enjoy this. I baked it like a meatloaf and used it as a protein supplement or canned food substitute until Batman got sick; then he had to have everything pureed so I cooked it on the stovetop and ran it through my Osterizer:

 

1 lb - 2 lbs chicken or turkey

1 lb ground beef - OK if it's quite fatty because you're cutting the fat with poultry

2-3 eggs with shells (1 egg for each pound meat)

1 cup frozen spinach

1/2 cup frozen peas (must be cooked and then pureed - for the fiber; firms stools)

2-3 tablespoons molasses (blackstrap is best - lots of potassium; also adds palatability)

2-3 teaspoons powdered kelp (optional - for trace minerals)

 

For the eggshells, I rinse them out and zap them in the microwave for 30 seconds, pat dry, zap again if they're still too damp, then powder them with mortar and pestle or coffee grinder (or just crush well with back of spoon).

 

If you're going to bake as meatloaf, thaw the spinach first but no need to drain.

 

If peas are not cooked and pureed, they'll just go through the dog whole. You can puree (= blend into mush) in an Osterizer (might have to add a little water), old-fashioned Foley food mill, Cuisinart, etc. For us, they work better than most anything else at providing fiber for good stools.

 

You can make it with all one kind of meat. If just chicken or turkey, it'll be pretty low-calorie, though. You can also add other things -- a minced carrot or apple, for example.

 

Cook on stovetop until meat is no longer pink or mix all together and bake like a people meatloaf.

 

If you're not feeding anything else, figure 1-1.5 lbs of meat per dog per day.

 

I skip the peas and added extra spinach but that is just me... I hate the smell of peas I made Outlaws in meatloaf form and cut it into meal portions and froze what wouldn't be used in two days and just took it out as I needed more. I really hope this helps....

[Trudy]

RobinM will see this - she's had these issues with one of hers and can give you some tips on what worked for her and what didn't as far as getting them to eat when they know it hurts to do so.

 

 

Is she drinking anything? If so, that may be the route to go - find something you can process the crap out of and add liquid so she can drink it.

[Guest scfilby]

Baytril - 136mg , Prednisone - 20mg every 12 hours , Omeprazole 20 mg once a day, prilesec once a day.

Heidie and the hounds

 

Omniprazol and Prilosec are exactly the same and are proton pump inhibitors (ppi) which reduce stomach acid to prevent heartburn. Omniprazol is the generic form of prilosec and distributed by the same company.

 

I am in no way near qualified to make any suggestions. I feel sorry for your poor pup, but I wonder why they would be double dosing her with PPIs. Too far a reduction in stomach acid interferes with digestion. I take one a day for severe acid reflux.

 

How are her stools?

[Guest TheUnrulyHound]

Outlaw was also on Pred and he took Zantac with it. 75 mgs 15 minutes before the pred. Burpdog may be right, she may need more to settle her stomach

 

ETA: N/M if scfilby is right she may have enough already...

Edited September 8, 2009 by TheUnrulyHound

[ahicks51]

There have been a number of individuals with hounds that have suffered similar problems in recent weeks/months, and I hope they will chime in- but, until they do:

 

First off, none of the symptoms you describe are unusual in the sense that these GI/autoimmune problems cause calamitous weight loss and eating difficulties, same as they do in humans. Eventually, some combination of medication and diet usually fixes the problem. I know- it looks very bad, but there's a good chance it can be reversed.

 

Secondly, granulomatous disease of the intestines points towards a number of things, but autoimmune seems most likely. Again- diet and medication.

 

Third, if your vet has not already discussed it with you, look at immunomodulators- specifically, imuran. And you might want to see if swapping out the Baytril for Flagyl (metronidazole). Baytril is a fluoroquinolone antibiotic that *may* have some positive effect, but Flagyl may be slightly more appropriate for IBD/IBS. Similarly, some people find that Tylosin powder (a macrolide antibiotic) helps. Lastly, probiotics such as Purina's Fortiflora may help.

 

These IBDs start out from years of exposure to carbohydrates that feed inappropriate gut flora, which then allow mixing of proteins with the immune system, causing sensitization- so you have a double whammy of dysbiosis (an imbalance of flora in the gut), and allergy-like reactions with proteins because of the damaged gut. Then the dysbiosis gets worse from administration of antibiotics, and- phew. You get to the frustration stage very quickly, and pulling back out of the nosedive is frustrating. Good luck, and I'll let the pros who have handled this in their own hounds give their sage advice.

[Burpdog]

She should be taking the prilosec twice a day with that amount of pred.

[Guest bigbrindlebunny]

After my boy went through a bout of vomiting, the Vet gave him a shot of something to help with the nausea, and Flagyl along with Pepto. I bring this up so you can ask about the product that can help them with the nausea. I'm sorry that's all I have to offer, except our prayers for you and Josie.

 

It could really be worth trying the recipe from Batmom that TheUnrulyHound suggests. Both these ladies have LOTS of experience, and had success with the meatloaf and some very ill hounds.

[Batmom]

Can't offer much beyond what folks have suggested already: Basically, reviewing the meds with your vet and perhaps tweaking the stomach meds.

 

IIRC when RobinM's Polli was ill, one thing that appealed to her was crunchy granola bars. Might be that that was something so different from what she thought of as food, that it didn't make her nauseous. Some other non-dogfood-like things that I and others have used include cinnamon bread, graham crackers, vanilla Ensure, vanilla ice cream, spaghettios ....... Freshly cooked chicken livers and canned green tripe (Tripett or Solid Gold Green Cow brand) usually go over well, too.

 

Sending lots of prayers for your beloved.

[Guest greytful4]

That poor darling, I have no advice, just a big hug...

[Guest sophjoe03]

Josie is also on Metoclopramide- 5mg three times a day. Thats not helping with the upset stomache. She is drinking water but I dont think its enough. Her gums are getting tacky. She has no energy. I called OSU again today and told Dr. Sherger that she seems in pain and he perscribed her Trymadol. I havent picked it up yet from the pharmacy. It wasent ready. She is on a lot of meds. Wouldnt that alone mess with her intestines?

Thanks everyone for input. I started to feel all alone and depressed.

Heidie

[BrentsMom]

Vanilla Ensure kept Mandy going for a bit...and baby food(at one point I was literally spooning/forcing it her mouth....)

 

Good luck.....

[RobinM]

WOW- it sounds much like what my Beau experienced. He was down to 52.4 pounds. The big difference came for Beau 3 weeks after we started 40 mg of pred AND 50 mg of imuran. Please ask the vet about this.

 

Is she on a hydrolized diet such as Z/D or HP????

 

I can not stress this enough- MOST importantly- I WOULD NOT give any of the meatloaf evos, chicken, beef, rice etc. I would only feed a hypoallergenic food, meaning that this food is predigested and it treats the system into thinking it's not a protein. Most dogs do OK on one of these foods. A/D is a very very rich food - NOT made for gastro issues but for dogs like cancer patients who are not eating. Beef, chicken, rice, etc are all the ingredients that many IBD dogs are allergice too. So, the idea is to elimate all the things that can cause a "flareup".

 

Also- until she is ready to eat kibble- remember her system is totally inflammed- try picking up some white fish. I poached in tin foil in the oven for 20 minutes or until soft- but cooked. He lived on that for 3 weeks straight. I fed hiim 3 pounds of fish a day. I fed him every 3 hours round the clock- literally. He peed like a mad man but he started- very slowly to gain weight. You have nothing to lose by picking up the fish. Pick up a pound. Cook it- I was hand feeding him- he was only 4 years old. At the end of 3 weeks- he was ready and wanted the kibble. I then -added in the fish to the kibble. It just went on from there and got better. The fish is very delicate on the system and the other things are the very things that could have caused the inflammation to begin with.

 

The ONLY food Beau has been on since this all started in January (actually started in November, but was diagnosed via open abdominal surgery in Jan) has been 1) poached tilapia 2) z/d dry AND wet. We bought a dehydrator ($79.00) and cut french fry size slices of tilapia and make him dehydrated tilapia treats which he eats like they are "crack". We also give him the z/d cookies. That is THE ONLY THING that this dog has eaten. He is alive when I thought for sure we were going to lose him. It was bad, very, very bad.

 

Also- there is a site on YAHOO- IBD dogs. Incredible knowledge- not the friendliest group but very helpful.

 

Please feel free to email me @ rlm410@optonline.net if there is anything I can do or review with you.

Edited September 8, 2009 by RobinM

[Guest sophjoe03]

Yes, we have done the baby food for a week before she decided that it wasent good anymore. Now she wont touch any flavor baby food. Ice cream, she wont touch anymore. I tried every canned food on the shelf. I even offered her hamburger from Mc Donolds when she went 6 days without eating anything at all. She wouldnt touch it.

OSU ruled out cancer. So we know thats not it.

I will be stopping at the store tomorrow to get ingredients for the meatloaf.

Heidie

 

They had her on perscription diet A/D and she ate that for a week and now she wont touch it.

[Burpdog]

Many times this is what they do--eat it for a day or two, then not.

 

Try rotisserre chicken--WalMart is good. Try frying roast turkey or chicken (for some reason they prefer turkey)

 

Hand feed and don't get upset. I know how difficult it is.

[Guest TheUnrulyHound]

Heidie, you are not alone, believe me, when I needed support and hope for my sick boy so many people on greytalk were here for me. This is a wonderful community. I hope we all can help you feel better and offer some suggestions to make your girl start eating and getting better.

 

I know when my stomach is upset I like gingersnaps-ginger is good for calming your stomach and is a good excuse to eat cookies too. The mention of granola made me think of that.

 

Have you tried some low sodium broth in her water? that may get her to drink more. I also have tried pedalyte. Some had had luck with gatorade, just dont get the red if you have a light colored hound

 

I can't offer much help on meds, but I do know all about trying to get a sick hound to eat

[duncan41]

Heidie, PLEASE take RobinM's offer of help. If there is anyone on this board who can help, it's Robin! Sending prayers of healing for Josie and prayers for strength for you. Please hang in there!

[BrentsMom]

Hand feed and don't get upset. I know how difficult it is.

 

Oh YES!!!! Definately try handfeeding!!!! (My hands stunk for days after hand feeding the stinky canned green tripe.)

 

Dried chicken breasts chews (she lived on those for about a week)

Edited September 8, 2009 by BrentsMom

[Guest trevdog]

Tramadol can also cause eating issues. Handfeeding or even force feeding. Sometimes they need a kick start to eat. Of course if she doesn't keep it down that won't help.

[nyGreys]

Sending prayers.