Looking for thoughts/help?

[Angie]

We recently rehomed a lurcher (there's definitely greyhound and we think whippet) from an appeal for a home on facebook, we think his situation that wasn't great and were worried about where he'd end up as they seemed to just want him away as soon as possible. He is 8 months old, we have an older dog (whippet) who's 12 years old. Initially when we brought him home he listened when we asked him to stop trying to bite our older dogs lips and ears. He has since then not been listening the same and at times he will become very hyper when we say leave and jumps all over the place he was easy to calm initially when this started. Now it is becoming harder to calm the behaviour and he snarls and snaps at both the dog and us. Last night he did it when we came up to bed and that's the worst it's been, I couldn't get him to leave the room (which is what I had been doing, saying leave and hearding him out of the room) and ended up having to block him with a pillow and pin him down so I could lift him safely out of the room (I know this isn't good but I really had no choice as he wouldn't leave the room and kept lunging and snapping at my older dog). He is a great dog aside from this and is doing well with training using treats. He is very food motivated but has never shown any aggression with this. At times we have noticed that if we make sudden movements he sometimes cowers as if we are going to hit him, or also if there's a bang (I knocked the dish rack yesterday by mistake and he cowered and ran away) I assume this behaviour has been from his previous home.  We exercise him a few times a day and also play with his toys with him a few times a day until he is tired. Do you have any thoughts about this?  I'm beginning to become frightened of him and I'm becoming increasingly frightened for my older dog.

[LBass]

Wiser heads will chime in, but my initial thought is that this boy is a puppy and you are dealing with puppy energy, puppy play, and puppy developmental phases.  This fellow needs lots of exercise and the start of training--training using positive methods.

Puppy Developmental Phases

 

[Angie]

Hi thank you for your answer.  We have been training him using positive methods.  He initially was always trying to nibble on our hands and we have been using positive reinforcement since he first came to tackle this and he is listening.  We have had our older dog from a pup and have seen and conquered the hyper puppy phases using positive training techniques the same ones we are now using with the puppy.  He does get exercised and also played with a lot (by kicking balls up and down the garden for him until he is literally knackered) and also playing with the two large tubs of toys we have in the house.  Do you think he needs more exercise?

[greysmom]

In short, yes, probably.  A greyhound puppy would be running in a long outdoor kennel with his littermates all day, every day, right about now.  And a tired puppy is a good puppy.  Greyhound puppies are called "landsharks" because they are all teeth and they never stop moving!!!   

Remember you can also tire him out by engaging his mind in short, intense training sessions.  Tire him out physically a bit, then have him learn something.  Focus on "leave it!" and "drop it!" commands, along with basic obedience.  He might love to be in an actual class with other dogs, allowing him a chance to socialize and get away from the house into his own space.  A doggie daycare for a morning or two a week can also help him if you're struggling to get him enough exercise.

He should also be learning to wear a basket muzzle at this time, for his own protection and the protection of your other dog.  Crate training is also important.

He should not ever be allowed to bully your older dog.  If he starts pestering and nipping, make sure you remove him immediately.  If he's becoming recalcitrant, use a high value treat to lure him away.  Then you can redirect his attention with a squeaky toy or longer lasting chew treat.

I'm going to put in here that - usually - the best teacher for a puppy is an older dog.  They don't put up with puppy crap for too long and understand the value of disciplining one that's being too forward or too hyper.  It sounds horrible and snarly and growly to us humans, but it's just how dogs interact.  However, if your dog isn't standing up for himself, then you (and the rest of the humans in the house) need to stand up for him and not allow him to be bullied.  Your older dog was there first and deserves to hold his place in the house pack.

I'm an advocate of letting dogs work out their own pack placements in a household, but with a puppy and a senior, the pack leaders need to step in and reinforce the senior as above the puppy, or the puppy will run right over the older dog.  So make sure you are giving enough attention to your older dog one-on-one, that he gets his food first, that he gets handed treats first, that he can come and go ahead of the puppy.  

If your young dog is particularly stubborn, look into beginning a program called NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) training.  Basically, this means that he has to "pay for" everything you give him - meals, treats, walks, outs, everything - by doing something you ask him to do.  Usually this is something he already knows like "sit" or "down," but it can be any behavior he will perform on demand.  This reinforces his place in the pack, with people at the head and the puppy way at the bottom (his placement may change over time, but never to the head place).

Puppies can be very rewarding.  They can also be very frustrating, at the same time!  Good luck!

[Angie]

Forgot to say he also goes to an enclosed dog run a few times a week.

Thank you so much greysmom, I have been looking into daycare as an option to further give him stimulation and also socialisation with other dogs.  

Hadn't thought about a muzzle, is it okay to muzzle him and not my older dog though?

My older dog is definitely a wimpy whippet, he has become afraid of him and won't stick up for himself.  I don't want this.  When these events happen it's very difficult to manage as I'm trying to protect my older dog but also myself and he lunges, growls, barks and tries to bite us both.  I have already started giving my older dog his dinner, etc first as I know this is important in terms of pack.

I will look into the programme as an option just in case it's needed thanks.

Yes your right, puppies can be both and he is, I haven't experienced this before in all my years of owning dogs that's why I thought I'd reach out.  We did have another rescue dog (whippet) that we got when my older dog was a pup and it went so smoothly she was an older dog and warned him the first day she came and then they got on so well until she had to be put to sleep.  We waited a good few years and thought it might be good for him to have some company again.

 

 

[greysmom]

Normally you would muzzle both dogs, but, as long as you are closely supervising them, I would probably muzzle the younger dog.

One other thought:  Sometimes it's hard to tell when a dog is being aggressive and when they are just over-stimulated and really out of control, which can easily happen with young dogs.  They don't have good self control or know how to calm themselves down, which is why training is is key for them.  True aggression in dogs is very rare, and humans often mistake or misread normal dog behavior for the dog being "aggressive."  This is why it's difficult to help with these kinds of problems from a distance, over the internet.

However, if your senior is becoming anxious, this only feeds the tendencies of the young dog to push the boundaries even harder.  Intervene earlier and separate the dogs before the young one gets too over-excited.  If that means they need to be kept apart for a while, then that's an easy solution you should utilise. 

The wild card in this case is that this is a true rescue dog, and there *may* be some indication of rough handling in his previous life.  So, if this is something you don't feel qualified to handle on your own, or if you yourself become fearful, please contact your vet, and your adoption group, for a referral to a certified animal behaviorist (who uses only positive reinforcement techniques) who can come and watch your dogs interact and give you some hands on help with them.

[Apollo_the_Grey]

On 1/23/2022 at 6:46 AM, Angie said:

We recently rehomed a lurcher (there's definitely greyhound and we think whippet) from an appeal for a home on facebook, we think his situation that wasn't great and were worried about where he'd end up as they seemed to just want him away as soon as possible. He is 8 months old, we have an older dog (whippet) who's 12 years old. Initially when we brought him home he listened when we asked him to stop trying to bite our older dogs lips and ears. He has since then not been listening the same and at times he will become very hyper when we say leave and jumps all over the place he was easy to calm initially when this started. Now it is becoming harder to calm the behaviour and he snarls and snaps at both the dog and us. Last night he did it when we came up to bed and that's the worst it's been, I couldn't get him to leave the room (which is what I had been doing, saying leave and hearding him out of the room) and ended up having to block him with a pillow and pin him down so I could lift him safely out of the room (I know this isn't good but I really had no choice as he wouldn't leave the room and kept lunging and snapping at my older dog). He is a great dog aside from this and is doing well with training using treats. He is very food motivated but has never shown any aggression with this. At times we have noticed that if we make sudden movements he sometimes cowers as if we are going to hit him, or also if there's a bang (I knocked the dish rack yesterday by mistake and he cowered and ran away) I assume this behaviour has been from his previous home.  We exercise him a few times a day and also play with his toys with him a few times a day until he is tired. Do you have any thoughts about this?  I'm beginning to become frightened of him and I'm becoming increasingly frightened for my older dog.

A lot to break down.

The puppy is engaging in face biting, and you asked the puppy to stop? 

How did you ask?  Did you redirect the biting behavior and remove the puppy, give him a toy, give him something to chew on?  Did you take the puppy outside for a vigorous play session?

at times he will become very hyper when we say leave and jumps all over the place

Seems like this pupper has tons of energy and needs a LOT of exercise and mental stimulation.  You might consider some basic clicker/ ++ training to to help stimulate the bond with his humans and to tire him out mentally.

 

We exercise him a few times a day and also play with his toys with him a few times a day until he is tired. Do you have any thoughts about this?  I'm beginning to become frightened of him and I'm becoming increasingly frightened for my older dog.

 

How does the older dog react?  Does the older dog stiffen?  show teeth?  growl?  air snap?  

Have you thought of a muzzle during these times?  A muzzle will prevent a lot of harm and can be used as a training tool.

 

My thoughts are that this puppy was likely removed from his litter at an early age ( prior to 6 weeks) which is when puppies start learning their basic behavioral cues from mama and from their littermates.  This puppy doesn't know when to quit because it hasn't learned those things.   If the behavior isn't corrected, it could keep getting worse.    Which methods of correcting are you using?  throw chain?  squirt bottle?  a loud "NO!?"